What is a "THROWBACK"?

[Skip]

i saw the strain name..

White Scorpion/White Butterfly Throwback..

Lucy, please esplain..
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p4JunCV2m20/TZUGXTkhy5I/AAAAAAAAA4w/ysbqKFwBYDo/s200/Lucy+and+Desi.bmp

my momma didn't raise no dummy.. BUT! she didn't know discus

[hedut]

I'm expert yet but I think "throwback" means un solid or straration :)

[Jhhnn]

Throwbacks are individuals who exhibit the characteristics of an ancestral form, rather than the desired characteristics of the breeder's strain. Turq parents will sometimes have a few offspring that are basically colored like wild fish, for example. With some of the newer and more highly bred varieties, throwbacks exhibit the characteristics of intermediate forms, ancestors to the desired form... Few varieties have completely stable genetics, which is why breeders have been able to create all of the different domestic varieties of today...

[Second Hand Pat]

Personally I love the look of the throwbacks.

[Skip]

so is a ws/wb throwback going to look like a WB or something else.. i like WB! :)

chad has some.. i guess i should be asking him :)

[Darrell Ward]

A throwback is a runted discus you throw out on the neighbor's lawn, and their kid throws it back! JK. :p

[Eddie]

so is a ws/wb throwback going to look like a WB or something else.. i like WB! :)

chad has some.. i guess i should be asking him :)


Skip, it's not going to look like a WB or WS, it will look like a throwback! LOL Basically what Jhhnn mentioned but in laymens terms, the fish just isn't there yet, almost but can't be categorized as a particular type.

[Ed13]

Throwbacks are individuals who exhibit the characteristics of an ancestral form, rather than the desired characteristics of the breeder's strain. Turq parents will sometimes have a few offspring that are basically colored like wild fish, for example. With some of the newer and more highly bred varieties, throwbacks exhibit the characteristics of intermediate forms, ancestors to the desired form... Few varieties have completely stable genetics, which is why breeders have been able to create all of the different domestic varieties of today...
+1. Ancestral from is a great way of putting it. Another example would be a striated blue turq fish being born from a solid cobalt pair or since Jhhnn posted a SS type(14 bars) or solid blue fish born from his Blue Scorpion pairs. Hope this doesn't diminish his eloquently writen explanation.:o

Personally I love the look of the throwbacks.
Def +1. Been saying that for years, they somehow look slightly diferent to me.


A throwback is a runted discus you throw out on the neighbor's lawn, and their kid throws it back! JK. :p
:spit: "DON"T throw it back man"!!!! LOL

[seanyuki]

Throwbacks are simply fishes that are not your choice of breed or strain you want to produce...... normally from x from two different strain, may be color, pattern, shape, etc ........ depending on what u r trying to achieve or improve on ..... the end result may generate fishes that is not up to your liking or standard = throwbacks for short.just my 2 cents.

[Scott293]

From what I understand a throwback came from fishermen. When fishing there are even laws on length of fish. You can't keep it if it's below 12 inches in length, therefore when you catch a 10" long fish, you must throw it back in the lake. Or if you are fishing for a trophy fish to mount, you throw a lot back in the lake before you finally catch one worth mounting. Or if it's to small to eat then you throw it back in. ...Scott

[Skip]

throwback sounds like a fancy name for culls..

i think i will just wait for my White Butterflys to show up..

[sourav.ghosal]

this means Red Rose as fancy name given by breeders are Throwbacks from melon pairs.
is it.. experts please guide.

[hedut]

this means Red Rose as fancy name given by breeders are Throwbacks from melon pairs.
is it.. experts please guide.

that absolutely not, rose red from brown base melon pigeon base and those are two different fish my friend:).



here some picture WB throwback Skip, that I use to own them :) and if you wanna to see WB/WS just look Vince/moik thread :)(he has the best WB/WS I ever seen:)

[brewmaster15]

throwback sounds like a fancy name for culls..

i think i will just wait for my White Butterflys to show up..

Throw backs are not Culls.

Heres how it usually works Folks... You breed a pair of White Butterflies.. and when you look at the fry you sort them... Those with little or light pattern will probably be "white butterflies" ..As in having mostly solid bodies... Those that have well defined patterns will probably have pattern as adults....and are not really called white Butterflies...instead they are often called White Pigeons...a generic name... but technically all white butterflies are is a glorified white PB. This sorting is done at a small size (2-3") and is NOT 100% accurate... Many have bought a white butterfly throw back or white PB and ended up with nice white butterflies. Regardless though, whether white butterfly or throw back... thats the phenotype you see.....not the genotype...another words... as far as breeding stock goes... either will most likely produce more white butterflies and white pigeons.


All these were bought as "throwbacks",

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65797&d=1301514942


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65793&d=1301514696

this one looks like a white Pigeon...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65792&d=1301514695

hth,
al

[moon_knight1971]

Looking for some of these too Skip! Thanks for the explanation Al!

[Scott293]

[QUOTE=brewmaster15;749419]Throw backs are not Culls.

Heres how it usually works Folks... You breed a pair of White Butterflies.. and when you look at the fry you sort them... Those with little or light pattern will probably be "white butterflies" ..As in having mostly solid bodies... Those that have well defined patterns will probably have pattern as adults....and are not really called white Butterflies...instead they are often called White Pigeons...a generic name... but technically all white butterflies are is a glorified white PB. This sorting is done at a small size (2-3") and is NOT 100% accurate... Many have bought a white butterfly throw back or white PB and ended up with nice white butterflies. Regardless though, whether white butterfly or throw back... thats the phenotype you see.....not the genotype...another words... as far as breeding stock goes... either will most likely produce more white butterflies and white pigeons.

Al,

That top left fish has got to be in one of my top favorite fish. Can you tell me where I can get a fish like that? Or can anyone tell me?
...Scott

[Northwoods Discus]

My understanding would be that a throwback is an unexpected or undesired result from line breeding for a specific trait. Breeders are trying to get a line that breeds "true" to the desired trait be it color, shape, fins etc. In a breeding where the parents look (phenotype) as you want but the genetics are not "pure" so occasionally you get one that looks (phenotype) like the initial strain.
In the dog world we see this with the made up breeds people are peddling now. It takes many generations to stabilize the genetics so when you breed 2 Labs you get lab puppies. If you breed 2 labradoodles together you do not get labradoodles. You get throwbacks, MUTTS. Some of these mutts are beautiful and great pets but they are not a stable BREED or VARIETY. Some of the "mutt" fish are beautiful but they would not breed true.
I don"t know if this has helped or confused things more.

[Skip]

ND.. i think i will just add another type of fish i will stay from besides, HIGH BODY, BULLDOG or Rocketeer! :))

[ockyra215]

I thought a Throwback would also have a percentage of offspring of what its a throwback of for example if you had albino bluediamonds throwbacks and you breed them together you will get a percentage of albino bluediamonds. I am not sure on this but this is what I was lead to believe someone may have more on this.I wouldnt buy a discus cause its a throwback some are nicer than what its a throwback from! Just my 2 Cents!:bandana:

[brewmaster15]

Guys, please re-read my post..

I've raised a ton of white Butterflies over the years.,....the distinction between a white butterfly and a throw back white butterfly is done at a small size, 2-3 " size...its largely SUBJECTIVE.Its a relatively recent event as far the naming goes... used to be you would buy a group of juvies and hope for the best as far outcome.

If you buy a "white butterfly" you will find that many of what you get are not the solid bodied fish most associate from White Butterflies....Those looking for the solid bodied white butterflies should save the cash and buy young adults to adults...some white butterfly lines can take over 1 year to turn solid...some never do.

There are certain lines in the discus world that are nortoriously hard to fix...and often produce a large number of "throw backs" White butterflies are one., San Merah another, and even snakeskins are notorious for carrying red turq genes and producing throw backs to the red turq line.


if you had albino bluediamonds throwbacks and you breed them together you will get a percentage of albino bluediamonds. I am not sure on this but this is what I was lead to believe someone may have more on this Dave this a case of whats called an "intermediate" If you take a non-albino and cross it to an albino you'll get all fish looking non-albino but they carry the albino gene... breed those f1 offspring that carry the gene to each other and you get some offspring that are albino, and some that aren't but carry the gene, and some that aren't and carry no albino genes.

You can see this all in action in this thread...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?59962-Brew-s-Homegrown-albino-alenquers
Hth,
al

[amol1806]

What will be result of cross breed of blue diamond and butterfly discus?

[Second Hand Pat]

What will be result of cross breed of blue diamond and butterfly discus?

You would be crossing a non-PB with a PB. Generally these are not considered a desirable cross.

[nc0gnet0]

You would be crossing a non-PB with a PB. Generally these are not considered a desirable cross.

Well,

It would be a step backwards if the desired result was a White butterfly or White pigeon, however, the BD was used in the development of the WB.........

-Rick