2 Weeks old and Discus babies dieing.

[Shot35]

I had a spawn of approx. 125 babies. The parents raised them and they were kept with the parents for 2 weeks. I then moved the babies to a seperate tank. Suddenly I noticed that I was having 5 to 10 babies die each day. I was feeding baby brine shrimp and doing a 5 gallon water change out of a 20 gallon high each day. The water was 50/50. The same I had been doing with the parents. Now there is only about 40 babies left. I checked me water parameters and they stayed consistant from one tank to the next. Any ideas or thoughts on why this happened?

[Discus Origins]

125 two week olds in a 20g and only doing 1/4 water changes? If you are feeding 4-6 times a day at that number of fish you should be doing at least 75% water change per day. Have you tested your nitrates? Fry are pretty sensitive at this stage to nitrates. I'm raising 30 4 week olds in a 20g and change at least 75% per day, sometimes twice a day.

[John_Nicholson]

20 gallon tank....Start changing about 19 gallons of water twice a day and you will be fine.

-john

[Larry Bugg]

Why did you pull them from the parents after only 2 weeks?

I have two 20's and 2 10's with fry right now and they get 90% daily.

[jpdevol]

In addition to the water, many fry deaths can be associated with overfeeding (too much at one time) and "spoiled" bbs. BBS typically hatch around 24hrs; at 30hrs or so bacteria begin to develop and you can often smell the batch begin to "sour". At 36hrs there is a real risk of bacteria laden bbs killing the fry.

[mmorris]

In addition to the water, many fry deaths can be associated with overfeeding (too much at one time) and "spoiled" bbs. BBS typically hatch around 24hrs; at 30hrs or so bacteria begin to develop and you can often smell the batch begin to "sour". At 36hrs there is a real risk of bacteria laden bbs killing the fry.

I change 80%+ of the water two-three times daily, taking care that the temp and ph is the same. I thoroughly wipe the inside of the tank daily as well. Bbs should be good for 24 hours after it hatches, but I start a new batch twice a day, taking care to wipe out the bottle each time. The bbs are best fed as soon after hatching as possible because it is the yolk sac that is the nutritious part of the bbs, and they begin to absorb it upon hatching.

[nc0gnet0]

BBS typically hatch around 24hrs; at 30hrs or so bacteria begin to develop and you can often smell the batch begin to "sour". At 36hrs there is a real risk of bacteria laden bbs killing the fry. I am unaware of any bacteria that can live in the brine solution that we hatch bbs in and make the transition to fresh water alive. However, I do believe that uneaten bbs laying on the bottom of the tank can be a real problem.

[Eddie]

I am unaware of any bacteria that can live in the brine solution the we hatch bbs in and make the transition to fresh water alive. However, I do believe that uneaten bbs laying on the bottom of the tank can be a real problem.

Ditto, any left in the tank will foul the water.


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[nc0gnet0]

I think alot of these fry deaths coincide about the same time we start to see them leaving the parents side and start grazing for uneaten food left on the bottom of the tank.

[Northstr31]

could be gill flukes...at that age gill flukes can take them down. Do you notice any of the discus laying close to the bottom?

[jpdevol]

I am unaware of any bacteria that can live in the brine solution that we hatch bbs in and make the transition to fresh water alive. However, I do believe that uneaten bbs laying on the bottom of the tank can be a real problem.

Unfortunately, there are several strains that do; most notably Vibrio A. and Vibrio sp.. The origin of the bacteria is the cysts themselves and it does multiply in the hatching cone over time. Artemia are "filter feeders" and ingest the bacteria. The result is infection of the GI tract in the fish and it will produce "rolling" mortality over a 72hr period from ingestion, but does not kill all.

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting, I will have to look into this, although I feed only hatchable decaps, and I think the decapsulation process would all but eliminate this. I still believe it is the uneaten BBS laying at the bottom of the tank that causes the vast majority of the issues.

[jaykne]

I feed allot of food 6 to 8 times a day, do 2 100% water changes, and wipe the inside of the tank down once a day and never lost a single fry other than culls and one time the city put stuff in the water to clean the pipes. IMO your main problem is you are not changing near enough water!!!

[Shot35]

Dam nice information guys. I will carry forth in the lessons learned.

[jpdevol]

Interesting, I will have to look into this, although I feed only hatchable decaps, and I think the decapsulation process would all but eliminate this. I still believe it is the uneaten BBS laying at the bottom of the tank that causes the vast majority of the issues.

Actually, it is the decapsulating process (either with HP or Chlorine) that eliminates that bacteria build-up as an outcome. Likely, the reason you had not experienced it:)

[wendy9722]

sry to derail thread but jeff ur box is full

[Shot35]

Ok so you guys really pointed out the exterme nature of the water changes. How do you prep your water? I was using 50/50. No treatment to the water.

[John_Nicholson]

100% tap water, aerated, heated for 24 hours. Treat if needed in your area.

-john

[kaceyo]

100% tap water, aerated, heated for 24 hours. Treat if needed in your area.

-john
Ditto!

[wadewc]

Ditto!

Works for me as well. My motto is keep it simple.

Wade