Do juvenile discus really grow out better in smaller tanks?

[JustinJDH401]

I was told by another SD member that my 55 gallon is too big for my 2 month old Juvenile discus and that it would stunt their growth. I have 6 of them born on 2-21-11.

Is this true? And if so, how? Why? I don't understand.

[ericatdallas]

I think the theory is that in a smaller tank it's easier to find food and it's less overwhelming or so goes the theory.

Also, I think there's a piece of info missing from that advice in that in a smaller tank, it's much easier and faster to make large water changes. It goes back to the Jack Wattley experiment where he shows that Discus growing in a small tank with large and frequent water changes (w/ respect to percentage of water changed) grew faster than the same number of discus with fewer water changes.

[Lenin]

It's easier to take care of them, water changes is key if you're able to do daily water changes on the 55 then go for it but it's not easier than changing 90% on a 20 with no substrate, I have little one's in a bare which I change 80% twice a day I couldn't do that on my 55, on the 55 the smallest I have are 3" discus but I still change 70% of the water every two days and it's a heavily planted tank.

Fresh clean water is the key to make the grow big and happy, also good source of protein in their diet.

[zchauvin]

If you can change 30g of water a day go for it because its better. A small tank say 20g with 6 discus will stunt them. A 55 with 6 small fish is great as a growout tank.

[ericatdallas]

I don't think six small discus (sub-3") will be stunted in a 20G. At a certain point, yes, the discus will need to be moved. Given that the caretaker keeps water clean and fish fed.

[JustinJDH401]

My fish are 2 months and 2 weeks old and aren't even an inch yet. Are they stunted? I got them 2 weeks ago and they grew a little. I have been doing daily 30% to 50% water changes.

[ericatdallas]

2 months and two weeks and not an inch? I don't know for sure if they're stunted but I do know they are not growing too well...

Are you sure you're measuring them correctly (mouth-to-fin).

They should be growing like crazy at this point. How often do you feed them? What do you feed them?

[Darrell Ward]

I was told by another SD member that my 55 gallon is too big for my 2 month old Juvenile discus and that it would stunt their growth. I have 6 of them born on 2-21-11.

Is this true? And if so, how? Why? I don't understand.

No, your tank is fine. Pollution in the tank is what stunts them. I would keep the tank at 84 to 86F, feed high protein food a minimum of 3 to 4 times a day, and do 50% water changes every other day. Always works for me.

[Lenin]

where did u get them from?

My fish are 2 months and 2 weeks old and aren't even an inch yet. Are they stunted? I got them 2 weeks ago and they grew a little. I have been doing daily 30% to 50% water changes.

[scottthomas]

a 55 gallon is good size to grow out juvie discus. However, IMO it is often better to grow out really small youngins in a smaller tank. They are more comfortable and consequently more aggresive eaters when in a small tank. Not really a matter of water quality stunting discus regardless of tank size if you have aadequate filtration and change enough

[Altum Nut]

Hey Justin,

As Darrel on the others mentioned, your 20g would be fine for the time being.
A 1 inch Discus being 2.5 months is really lacking behind and should be at minimum 2 inches TL.
Others have indicated where you got them but no need to mention a particular person. A LFS or local breeder or sponsor would be enough.
Without photos it would be difficult to tell but I suspect if they are 2.5 months old...then they possible are stunted and will never reach their potential size.

...Ralph

[JustinJDH401]

I got them from a hobbyist breeder that is near by. I know they are not an inch because I held a dime up to the glass to compare and half of them weren't even that big. One of them is actually over 2 inches. The breeder was stingy, he said he only wanted to sell me the smallest ones even though he had some much larger ones over 2 inches born on the same day. So I got 5 real tiny ones and one big one. But they have gotten bigger since I got them.

[ericatdallas]

I would avoid further dealings with any breeder (local, friend, sponsor, or otherwise) that insisted on selling the smallest from the same hatch.

I deal with a local breeder and he always scoops the largest ones for me. I've heard another local breeder will scoop at random unless you ask him specifically, but I would walk away from someone not willing to sell the larger ones when asked.

Most reputable breeders will cull their smallest fry.

ESPECIALLY with the disparity in size you're mentioning.

I suppose if he said, "I'll sell you the 2 inch ones for $20 and the 1 inch ones for $5" it might be okay. Some people who start in the hobby want to get cheap ones so they can play around before investing the big bucks on good ones. However, if you start with poor quality fish, you have a hard time figuring out if it's you or the fish to start with (which is kind of the discussion/problem now...).

JMO though...

May I ask how much you paid for them?

Isn't there a NADA sponsor that's in Chicago? I also think there are a few reputable SD members over there too... (hopefully it wasn't one of them that sold it to you to begin with or there's another side of the story such as a really good deal to get you acquanted with the hobby).

[JustinJDH401]

I paid 12 dollars each for all 6 from the guy. He introduced me to this forum so i know he is a member of SD but I haven't found him on here yet. Although I got the smallest ones I am still very happy.

[ericatdallas]

I paid 12 dollars each for all 6 from the guy. He introduced me to this forum so i know he is a member of SD but I haven't found him on here yet. Although I got the smallest ones I am still very happy.

LOL, $2 a discus? Okay, well then that's not so bad :) I think you got a pretty good deal... but it does make it hard to know if you're doing the right thing with poor quality discus. Most people probably would have paid $12 for the 2" one alone (if not more). So it's like buy one fish and getting 5 for free... it'll at least help keep your big one company and give it some fish to bully. You can also use the other 5 as sacrificial fish during the QT process when you get new fish.

...and who knows, maybe they'll start to grow.

[ericatdallas]

Oh wait, I read that wrong.... $12 for each of the 6 discus? Okay,... no, that's not a good deal if he was giving you 5 runts that were half the size of the larger ones.

The guy I bought from sold me his 1-1.5" fish for $10 and that's pretty typical (on the low side) from what I've seen for a local hobbyist breeder and he wasn't selling me the runts (from what I can tell). They also grew fairly quickly and noticeably the first couple of months.

[Lenin]

I got them from a hobbyist breeder that is near by. I know they are not an inch because I held a dime up to the glass to compare and half of them weren't even that big. One of them is actually over 2 inches. The breeder was stingy, he said he only wanted to sell me the smallest ones even though he had some much larger ones over 2 inches born on the same day. So I got 5 real tiny ones and one big one. But they have gotten bigger since I got them.

He was trying to get rid of his runts and stunted fish, so you already have a bad start, I would never buy from anyone that told me only the small fish are for sale, I would of giving him $10 for all of them if that was the case.

From people here in the forum which have good stock to sell it's usually $10 per inch up to 4in and then the price goes up.

[Jason K.]

bad form on the seller's part i'd say... much better source's in this area than that.

[ericatdallas]

I do find it disturbing especially doing it to someone who is new at it. I had someone ask for my runts (not stunted, but were lagging 1 to 1.5" behind from my 4.5-5 inch discus) and I made sure he knew they were runts. I even discouraged him. I haven't heard back from him so I assume he changed his mind. Actually, my offer was $10/ea for the smallest two of my batch and as much as $25 for the largest of my runts which is only slightly less than 4.5". So they were cheaper and bigger than what Justin got.

If the person is experienced or is fully informed, I have no problem with it. Clearly Justin didn't know how this would turn out. I think that's unethical and only falls slightly short of being fraudulent (given that the seller probably knew).

Of course, we only know one side of this story...