BNP Cave Advice Needed

[mmorris]

I have a breeding pair(s) of bnp that produce fry seemingly constantly in my 125 gallon tank. I think the discus are eating most of them. I would like to remove the eggs rather than the pair, since I'm not sure who is laying. I was told to put a cave in the tank, and remove the eggs once they are laid. What should the dimensions of the cave be? It would be nice if I could determine if there were eggs inside without removing it from the tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

I think barb makes caves with removable tops. Oops, not removable but sure she could make one.

[cyril]

Any kind of cave will do, they prefer one with a small opening in which the male will be able to block the entrance with his body and guard it when the eggs are laid. You will normally see the male with half his body hanging out the cave and his fins fanning when there is eggs in the cave . Just remove the cave and male when the eggs are laid and return the male when the babies leave the cave.

[Disgirl]

I have a breeding pair(s) of bnp that produce fry seemingly constantly in my 125 gallon tank. I think the discus are eating most of them. I would like to remove the eggs rather than the pair, since I'm not sure who is laying. I was told to put a cave in the tank, and remove the eggs once they are laid. What should the dimensions of the cave be? It would be nice if I could determine if there were eggs inside without removing it from the tank.

Martha, I have lots of sizes, styles of clay caves. I can fix you up with just what you need. Just let me know by pm if you are still interested. Thanks!
Barb

[mmorris]

Any kind of cave will do, they prefer one with a small opening in which the male will be able to block the entrance with his body and guard it when the eggs are laid..
How small is a small opening? Can you give me some dimensions for opening and cave? It doesn't sound from what I've heard and what you've said that 'any kind of cave will do'.

[ericatdallas]

How small is a small opening? Can you give me some dimensions for opening and cave? It doesn't sound from what I've heard and what you've said that 'any kind of cave will do'.

I've seen people use a plain rectangular box made out of tile before... why don't you just google pleco breeding cave? Where are they breeding now? If they're not doing it in a cave now then they can't be that particular anyway right?

[mmorris]

I've seen people use a plain rectangular box made out of tile before... why don't you just google pleco breeding cave? Where are they breeding now? If they're not doing it in a cave now then they can't be that particular anyway right?

Yes, I have googled. I understand they have some basic requirements. I would like to buy a cave and I would like to know approximate dimensions from someone who has used a cave with breeding bnp's.

[nc0gnet0]

How big are your pleco's? The opening should be large enough for them to get in and out but not much larger than that. if it then opens up to a larger area, that is even better. Make sure there is only one opening.

[mmorris]

They are adult bnp, however large that is! If anyone uses one, I'd appreciate knowing the dimensions you are using.

[fred 22]

Martha Kensfish has them and he used to breed them he will set you up.

[mmorris]

Thanks Fred!

[Len]

Martha, I know you were looking for an actual cave, but just a small tidbit -- there is a lady in my area that breeds them like crazy and all she uses are lengths of PVC pipe. I can get the diameter from her if that is an option for you. It seems it would be cheaper than purchasing something special if you don't have to or want to.

[Harriett]

I have had good luck just turning a clay breeding cone on its side, the opening pushed close to the glass at a little angle--just enough room for the parents to get in there and lay. Besides the behaviour of the male indicating they have eggs, the eggs will be completely visible. If they attach the eggs at the narrower back of the cone, use a flashlight to see what's going on. Then it is a snap to just remove the cone to another tank once they lay--match temperature of the water, carry the tank water in the cone when you transfer. SOO easy, works every time.
Best regards,
Harriett

[mmorris]

Thanks guys. I would prefer a cave because they are in my display tank. Both sound like good ideas though. Len, can you let me know the diameter? I understand they only want one hole - does one end have to be blocked off?

[nc0gnet0]

I made mine out of slate tile, got well over 200 of the little buggers in there now (albino longfins).

[Harriett]

Thanks guys. I would prefer a cave because they are in my display tank. Both sound like good ideas though. Len, can you let me know the diameter? I understand they only want one hole - does one end have to be blocked off?

Hi, Martha
One end open, one end closed. THat way you can more easily catch the babies to move them out. Other wise when you move the cave, they swim out the other end...in my world!
Best regards to you!
Harriett

[mmorris]

Sigh...I only wanted the dimensions.

[Harriett]

For BNP, you can go as small as 3 x 4 inches and up to 3 x 6 works great.
harriett

[Len]

Thanks guys. I would prefer a cave because they are in my display tank. Both sound like good ideas though. Len, can you let me know the diameter? I understand they only want one hole - does one end have to be blocked off?

Martha,

PVC is 6 or so inches long and 1 1/2 - 2 " diameter. You can cap the other end off if you like but not necessary.

[cyril]

How small is a small opening? Can you give me some dimensions for opening and cave? It doesn't sound from what I've heard and what you've said that 'any kind of cave will do'.

The opening should be big enough so that the biggest plecos can squeeze through...I have used diffrent caves in my tanks and have found that one of their favorite cave is just a ceramic rectangular candle holder that I picked up at the 99 cents store and opened the hole at the bottom so they can squeeze through.It measures four and half inches long by two and a half inches wide by two and half inches high.Whenever I see the male blocking the entrance there are normally eggs or babies inside. It is not that large a cave but I have had large spawns of over 425 babies in there all at the same time before.

[mmorris]

Thanks for that. Someone told me the female deposits the eggs in the cave, leaves the cave, and then the male enters to fertilize. This suggests that only one pleco needs to be in the cave at a time. Is that true?

[cyril]

The male normal take possesion of the cave,during this time you will see his head sticking out the cave later he will allow the female inside.I have seen both inside at this time . After the eggs are laid she leaves and he blocks the entrance fanning the eggs. When the eggs are hatched he continues blocking the entrance to protect the babies until their egg yolk sac has been depleted.

[mmorris]

So...body contact... :) It sounds like I need to be sure there is room for two.

[s4surf]

Boy martha, see all the trouble you caused asking size of a cave :D
I must have missed this thread or I would have answered you

The opening is roughly 1 1/2"-2" and more oval then round with a length of 6-8" is plenty big. As mentioned the only opening needs to be somewhat tight for one adult. the eggs are usually laid on the ceiling/back of the cave and he will guard the entrance and fan in fresh water as they hatch and consume their yoke sac. If you make the opening too big the male will not be able to contain them and they are a treat to almost any fish at that size.

If you have an empty tank with same params you can just pull the cave with the male at anytime. That way you will be able to see the job he does :)

If you have access to a kiln, buy some terra cotta clay and bake yourself a few. I was lucky enough to get 5-6 of these and the two males always pick the smaller openings for what's its worth.


Steve

[mmorris]

Hey Steve, nice to hear from you! I wonder how many pages we could get out of this. :) Do you think this will work? Seems cheap enough but he has no 'buy it now' price. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?breeding&1305669604

[roundfishross]

Martha,

how about these they are what I have been eyeballing(the round ones)
http://www.kensfish.com/breedinglogs.html

[mmorris]

Unfortunately, Ken dropped my last order entirely. I haven't been successful in contacting him about it, so I have to give him a miss.

[s4surf]

Hey Steve, nice to hear from you! I wonder how many pages we could get out of this. :) Do you think this will work? Seems cheap enough but he has no 'buy it now' price. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?breeding&1305669604

Yes those should work fine Martha. I will also tell you that any closed cave will work and porcelain vases are easily found through yard sales.

If you want me to, I can contact the person I got mine from and see what he has available? Shipping would be cheap and they are fired terra cotta which to me is a nice shade to add inot a tank. If you have any interest in other BNP's he might have LF marbles and Albino's, and of course SF marbles and Albino's at reasonable prices. But he does not ship so that would mean a road trip :)

Glad to help Martha, so if you have any other questions about breeding them let me know.
Steve

[mmorris]

Aw Steve, I was so sure you had made yours yourself! :) I was hoping to avoid shipping, but it looks like I won't be able to. The info would be appreciated. I have SF and LF albinos as well as the browns but they aren't spawning yet - too young. Some day, hopefully.

[s4surf]

I had pottery classes as an elective in college so it would not be a problem if I had a kiln :)

I will contact him and let you know. Possibly as soon as tomorrow.

Steve

[Disgirl]

As I mentioned last week Martha, I do have a kiln, and do make caves of all sizes and shapes along with my cones. And they are cheap.
Barb

[Disgirl]

Caves heading to Martha!:)
Barb

[mmorris]

And they are cheap.


:cheesy: