Any helpful hints would be appreciated.

[yetchy]

Hello everybody I am brand new to Discus. I have about 15 years aquarium experience including freshwater community, cichlids, and reef. I picked up my discus from Discus Hans(who was chosen from my reading this forum) who was excellent to work with and provided very healthy fish. My setup is as follows.

90 gallon
Coarse sand substrate
Driftwood
2 200 watt jagers
1 magnum 350 with bio wheels 1 liter ehfisubstrat pro prefiltered
1 fluidized bed with 4 pounds of sand prefiltered
1 modified emperor 400 with 3 liters of bio max no bypass mechanical filtration and Bio Wheels intact
8 shrimp and 6 snails
2 Cardinal Tetras for dither fish(not sure that this actually works, thus the small number)
8 3"+ Discus
cycled
Fake plants and some Dora and Diego decorations because my kids like them

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 7
PH 7-7.5
Temp 86

I was planning to do 20% to 30% water changes 2-3 times a week, more if the substrate has alot of left over food or feces. I was wondering if I could get away with feeding 2 times a day as opposed to the 4-5 that people are posting. Also I have the ability to lower the PH and monitor it, but would rather not due to the fact that the tap water comes out around 7.5.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[TwitchyDiscus]

PH is too high IMO.

[m1nh0h]

u can keep discus at ph even around 8.0

[Pardal]

If you want your fish to grow . I stronger suggest you feed them at least four times a day. and bare bottom. and the most important factor is daily water changes. You can get by with water changes 2 or 3 times a week in a mature planted aquarium.
but this is only good for adults. Believe me there is a lot of stunted fish around for newbies making this mistake even they been told.
Sounds hard but once you get the hang on it . Is not that hard, and you will be proud how your fish grow.
I suggest you read the section discus basics. I'm sure others will pitch in .but this is only base IMHE.
Julian.

[Skip]

tap water is fine.. some age it.. some don't.. but clean water with plenty of WC is better...

3" fish are still juvies.. they will need to still grow out.. so feeding 2x may take longer to grow them out..

if you are new to discus..
barebottom/heater/filter/sponges is the way to go.. being new and keeping it simple way to go, in case problems arise its easier to figure out what issue is.. or diagnose the problem with less variables..

you dont need dither fish.. discus are feel more secure in numbers.. 4" fish or larger are more forgiving with their newbie owners mistakes

[strawberryblonde]

pH shouldn't be a problem. Mine is higher than that and my discus are growing out just fine.

So long as the tank isn't overcrowded with decorations and it's easy to see the collected detritus and reach it with your syphon to vacuum it up you should be fine with your current setup. You'll need to increase feedings and water changes though. Mine are over 4" and eat as many times a day as they can convince me to feed them. I try to stick with 4-5 times a day with a light bedtime snack.

You could use an automatic fish feeder to give them discus flakes during the day and then just feed them their other foods in the mornings and at night after work. If you feed beefheart or any of the other frozen foods be warned that a WC is going to be a necessity every single day because the beefheart (frozen shrimp mix, etc) will pollute the water in a big hurry.

Do you have pics of your Hans discus? I'd love to see them! I bought mine from Hans too and they have been easy to care for and absolutely gorgeous.

[Darrell Ward]

Your PH is fine for domestic discus. I would change the 20-30% water change to 50-75%. I would also get a feeder. Young discus have a fairly small window of growth, so you need to make them grow while they can. I would also think about getting rid of some of that filtration equipment, lot of junk on 90 gal. You don't need all that. Good luck with your fish.

[Discus Origins]

Your water parameters are fine, Hans fish thrive in anything wet :)

Wish you would have just hooked up a wet/dry system instead of all the stuff you've hooked up. For juvies lots of food and WCs are necessary for proper growth. So the only suggestion I have for you would be to provide them with lots of both and you will do just fine.

[roclement]

PH is too high IMO.

Statements like this are just intended to flame things...do you even know what PH is the water that Hans keeps his fish in?

As others have said, increase the feedings, use a automatic feeder if you can.

Rodrigo

[Dudley Eirich]

I agree with what others have said. More and larger water changes plus additional feedings. Both you and your fish will be happier in the long run. Once they are adults you can cut back on both to some degree, although any discus will do better the more fresh water you give them. And once you get in the habit of doing significant, regular water changes, why quit?

[Jhhnn]

I'll offer that the gravel bottom is counterproductive- crud buildup is inevitable, particularly with the heavy feeding required to get good juvie growth. BB tanks also allow for bigger/ fewer feedings, allowing the discus more time to eat food on the bottom. Siphoning off debris is easy in BB tanks, and can reduce the need for water changes.

In general, Hans' Stendkers have the potential to become quite large, but that's only with heavy feeding their first 12-18 mos of life...

[yetchy]

Thanks guys for all the insight. After reading your respondses I had the following questions and comments

1. Increased water changes seems universally recommended. I was wondering if you go by any parameters, or just change it reguardless of the parameters. I realize that there is such a thing as its just better, but if I can hold my parameters 0,0,<20 is there a benefit. That being said I can change the water more.

2. Ph is a moot point, I talked to Hans and he said he keeps his tanks at 7.7 same as tap.

3. The 4-5 feedings a day. Will the discus get stunted due to less feedings or will they simply grow less quickly. I can set up a auto feeder, but without turning off the filters won't most of the food get sucked up? I guess I could put the filters on a timer.

4. Some one mentioned that I should have gone with a Wet Dry. It just so happens I have one that is not being used, but before I make any changes. I use the fluidized bed to remove nitrate at low flows it does a pretty good job also it requires no up keep and is silent. The modified emperor has the water flow up thru the bio max so there is very little upkeep as well and it is also very quiet. The magnum with biowheels is also quiet. The wetdry can process a large bioload but is quite noisy by virtue of the water dripping and also requires a lot of upkeep. If there is some compelling reason to use a wetdry I can switch.

5. The barebottom is not possible due to the fact that this tank is in the family room and not the basement as per my wife barebottom is not acceptable. I actually feel pretty comfortable to cleaning the bottom, side, top,(around recently fragged hard corals) of the tank. I can do pretty well with the python and an asepto syringe. I realize it is not as easy as barebottom, but there are constraints that I must abide by.

6. I will post pictures soon, but I can now tell you it is a lot harder to take pictures of discus then it is coral. Damn things are constantly moving.

Thanks again
-Jeff

[m1nh0h]

i know what you mean on number 6, if your discus is comfortable around you it might be easier to take pics of them when they are feeding

[strawberryblonde]

With your pre-filters on the intake tubes you won't have food being sucked into the filters during the day. My discus have become little experts at picking any worms and flakes right off the pre-filters, and I'd bet that yours will learn the same trick.

Discus do need more feedings per day at the 3" size. There's only a small window of opportunity for growing discus and once they pass that age/point in time, they will remain stunted. As nearly as I can figure, they grow fastest at a very young age, then slow down as they reach the 3-4" range, but still require the many feedings. Once they get beyond 5" and/or 12 - 18 months old you can slow down the feedings.

Fake plants and decorations are actually not a bad thing at all because they are so easy to pick up and move around while vacuuming! You just don't want to overcrowd the tank with them.

[Discus Origins]

Jeff

It's not only water parameters that warrant the WCs, it appears you have enough filtration to take care of the bioload especially with fluidized de-nitrator. But I have yet to see one work efficiently in freshwater, I also have one running on KY reef tank but my nitrates are at almost zero, not 20 as you've reported.

It has been hypothesized that growing fish emit hormones into the water, larger ones producing more. When the water becomes saturated with them it slows the smaller fishes growth rate. The larger ones aren't affected by their own hormones and continue to grow. Leaving you with 1-2 large fish and rest of the group smaller/stunted. Amount of feeding also affects the growth rate so that's why a almost universally suggested increase of feedings and WCs.

I suggested wet/dry because I prefer them in large tanks - anything over 75gallons. With duel HOB and another pump running the fluidized bed most will run into too much flow in the tank. I run pumps that turnover the water about 5 times/hr and the flow does not bother the fish. I've had fish spawn and raise fry in my show tanks so the flow is low enough not to affect fertilization yet still filters the water efficiently. The bio-balls also contain more bacteria in an aerobic environment than any HOB filter or canister media could.

With the higher temp, the wet/dry maintains a high dissolved oxygen content. I'm not understanding the noise problem, mine run very quietly most of the noise cones from the overflow box. Once water gets into drip plate it hits a DLS prefilter and then onto the media, sounds like light rain. The upkeep is extremely simple, I rinse the overflow prefilter sponge once a week and throw out the drip plate filter once a week. When I do water changes some detritus will gather in the sump making it easier to vacuum.

Not saying it's the only way to go but wet/drys have worked great for me, both in terms of water quality and maintenance.

[yetchy]

Jeff

It's not only water parameters that warrant the WCs, it appears you have enough filtration to take care of the bioload especially with fluidized de-nitrator. But I have yet to see one work efficiently in freshwater, I also have one running on KY reef tank but my nitrates are at almost zero, not 20 as you've reported.

It has been hypothesized that growing fish emit hormones into the water, larger ones producing more. When the water becomes saturated with them it slows the smaller fishes growth rate. The larger ones aren't affected by their own hormones and continue to grow. Leaving you with 1-2 large fish and rest of the group smaller/stunted. Amount of feeding also affects the growth rate so that's why a almost universally suggested increase of feedings and WCs.


Thank you, the hormone theory, or there are other byproducts that are limiting the fish in some way, makes more sense to me. Keeping stable water conditions or at least measurable water conditions has not been a problem for me in the last 10 years. But I will comment that now that I am committed to 50%+ daily water changes I can see why some people are using little more than a air pump and a sponge filter and still getting good results.

Thanks everybody for the initial input. Will keep you abreast of the progress and pitfalls.
Thanks
-Jeff