Setup breeding tank, discovered both were female: now what?

[JPA]

I spent a considerable amount of time and effort setting up a thirty gallon breeding tank for two discus that had paired off and that I thought were mating. After putting them in the breeding tank, and watching them breed, I discovered that they were both female.

So my question is: now what do I do? I would like to get a male, but it seems impossible to buy a discus and be confident in its gender. I don't want to spend a couple hundred dollars to buy a mature discus only to find out that it is another female.

Any thoughts on how best to proceed? I am considering moving the discus back to the community tank, and maybe getting 4-5 juvenile's and keeping them in the 30 gallon (basically, starting over). Of course, 30 gallons seems way too small for that many discus.

Edit: side question - has the value of my discus increased since I can confirm (with video + pictures) that they are female? Maybe I should try selling them (although I have no idea how I would go about doing it, and would hate to part with them).

[nc0gnet0]

Where do you buy your discus? Kenny is pretty good at determining sex, I am sure Hans is as well. As for value, it didn't change. Only if you have a proven pair (male and female that has produced wigglers), would this be a possibility.

[JPA]

Where do you buy your discus? Kenny is pretty good at determining sex, I am sure Hans is as well. As for value, it didn't change. Only if you have a proven pair (male and female that has produced wigglers), would this be a possibility.

I would buy my discus from my LFS (although I bought the ones I have now from a different LFS, and am not thrilled with their temperament), and I believe my LFS gets its discus from Stendker Discus USA out of Baltimore (which I believe is Hans). Maybe I will email them directly rather than going through my LFS (although I have a lot of confidence in the staff at my LFS, and they said they could not order a male).

[TURQ64]

Well, let's see...First off, what strain (s) are the females?..Have they both deposited eggs?....Where are you located?..Simple answer seems to obtain an adult male...it's not that tough...Gary

[DiscusOnly]

The way you approach it will depend on what your goal is?

Are you interested just getting frys that you can grow out?
What are your plan for the frys? Grow out to breed them again?
Do you want to breed just for the exprience?

As Gary stated, it's not too hard to get a male. The problem with just getting a male may not solve the problem. Simply getting a male doesn't automatically translate to fertilized eggs and hatched in to frys.

My opinion is that if you are going to spend the money to get quality adult, you should just get a pair.

Van

[kaceyo]

Your best chance of success would be to buy a small group of discus of the same strain that are close to breeding age, say 6mo or so, and raise them together with your two females. That way you may get a few possible pairs. Putting all your effort into a single pair can be futile

[JPA]

Well, let's see...First off, what strain (s) are the females?..Have they both deposited eggs?....Where are you located?..Simple answer seems to obtain an adult male...it's not that tough...Gary

One is a blue turquoise, the other is a Marlboro. The blue turquoise has laid at least two batches of (from what I can tell) healthy looking eggs. After laying these eggs, (I believe) the Marlboro came up and started laying its own eggs on top of and next to the blue's eggs. The Marlboro's eggs were all white, whereas the blue's eggs were an orange-ish color. Here is a picture of the two discus as well as the blue's eggs, before the Marlboro began laying its eggs:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9748/discust.jpg

And here is a picture of the Marlboro, and you can see the white eggs that I believe it deposited:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7195/discus.jpg

I am in Massachusetts. I would like to purchase an adult male, but I am not sure how to do it. Everyone I have spoken to says that it is impossible to determine the gender with any confidence unless they are breeding. Hence, my starting this thread.


The way you approach it will depend on what your goal is?

Are you interested just getting frys that you can grow out?
What are your plan for the frys? Grow out to breed them again?
Do you want to breed just for the exprience?

As Gary stated, it's not too hard to get a male. The problem with just getting a male may not solve the problem. Simply getting a male doesn't automatically translate to fertilized eggs and hatched in to frys.

My opinion is that if you are going to spend the money to get quality adult, you should just get a pair.

Van

I appreciate the advice. Right now I'm just breeding for the experience. I did not intend to breed, but once I saw that my discus were laying eggs, I figured I would give it a shot. Again though, how would one go about getting a male?

[John_Nicholson]

If you consider setting up a 30 gallon tank a lot of effort then don't even consider trying to breed discus....LOL.

You asked about the value of your fish so here you go.......The value does not change just because you know the sex. The PB female looks to be of fairly low quality so I kind of hope you don't find something to breed her with. I can't see the turq well enough to access it properly, but if you were going to buy a male try to get a turq type and put the PB back in the community tank.

JMHO

-john

[Keith Perkins]

+1 on EVERYTHING John said. Given that one of these fish is pigeon blood based and the other isn't, it wasn't a good idea to put them in a breeding tank together either. If they had been a true pair the offspring would have been heavily peppered.

[DiscusOnly]

If you consider setting up a 30 gallon tank a lot of effort then don't even consider trying to breed discus....LOL.

You asked about the value of your fish so here you go.......The value does not change just because you know the sex. The PB female looks to be of fairly low quality so I kind of hope you don't find something to breed her with. I can't see the turq well enough to access it properly, but if you were going to buy a male try to get a turq type and put the PB back in the community tank.

JMHO

-john

I agree. I would not even breed these 2 discus even if they were male/female.

[JPA]

If you consider setting up a 30 gallon tank a lot of effort then don't even consider trying to breed discus....LOL.

You asked about the value of your fish so here you go.......The value does not change just because you know the sex. The PB female looks to be of fairly low quality so I kind of hope you don't find something to breed her with. I can't see the turq well enough to access it properly, but if you were going to buy a male try to get a turq type and put the PB back in the community tank.

JMHO

-john

I very much appreciate your advice John and Keith, thanks. Just goes to show how little I know about breeding and the different strains of discus. (I was never a big fan of that Marlboro anyway - bad tempered and very easily startled).

[John_Nicholson]

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. If I can help just ask.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

Sorry double post.

-john

[Larry Bugg]

If you consider setting up a 30 gallon tank a lot of effort then don't even consider trying to breed discus....LOL.

John brought up a very good point here that didnt' really get touched on by the rest of the post. What is your goal? Are you just looing for the experience of breeding, or are you looking to sell fry? The setup is pretty easy and relatively cheap. A 20H or 29 gallon tank, heater and sponge filter and you have your breeding tank set up. So what next. Say you have a confirmed pair and they breed with maybe a small batch say 75 fry. In about 3 or 4 weeks you are going to need a 20 to put them in and in another 4 weeks you will need another 20 to split them into and in another 4 weeks you will need a couple of 55's to grow them out in. I currently have 2 10's, 1 20H and 2 55's housing fry/juvies from a single pair and the pair has wigglers on the cone. During this time you are going to be doing daily water changes and raising bbs to feed them. I am absolutely not trying to discourage you but you need to be aware of what will be required to do it right once you start. I would suggest you do some more research before continuning on. Read all you can and ask a lot of questions. If you can find someone locally to talk to that breeds discus, even better.