Are Black Worms Safe?

[christian1971]

How safe are black worms and other worms from parasites? Even from reputable sellers? Would I be safer with flake and freeze dried? Just wondering if discus could receive parasites from such live foods.

[Skip]

you are going to get two sides to this question.. for and against..

[Larry Bugg]

Yup, you will defnitely get two side. I used to feed live black worms. Not any more.

[seanyuki]

A lot work to maintain live blackwrom culture......To keep your worms fresh they should be rinsed at least once a day. Use only CHEMICAL FREE PRE CHILLED WATER when rinsing. Do not use aquarium water, or room temperature water. Only cold 40-50 degree water...........great if you have a lot spare time lol.

[Rick S]

I only speak from my own experience but the day that I stopped feeding frozen blood worms was the day I stopped having disease in my discus.

Good Luck, Rick

[Skip]

I only speak from my own experience but the day that I stopped feeding frozen blood worms was the day I stopped having disease in my discus

topics is BLACKworms.. not BLOODworms.. :) hooked on phonics didn't work for me either .. LOL

[Rick S]

I think if you read the post again he says blackworms and other worms. LOL

[Skip]

I think if you read the post again he says blackworms and other worms. LOL

LOL!!! i tend not to read every word in a full sentence.. its a slight flaw in my character.. ;)

[ZX10R]

Well I will speak for myself also here. I use to feed live blackworms and want to start again and yes they are a lot of work but in my eyes I think my fish looked healthier and were fatter. I was lucky and never had any health issues while feeding.

[moon_knight1971]

A lot work to maintain live blackwrom culture......To keep your worms fresh they should be rinsed at least once a day. Use only CHEMICAL FREE PRE CHILLED WATER when rinsing. Do not use aquarium water, or room temperature water. Only cold 40-50 degree water...........great if you have a lot spare time lol.

Interesting. Was not aware of this. I usually buy 2oz at my lfs and add a little water from one of my tanks every day. I drain as much of the old water as possible then add a little tank water. Not a big deal as 2oz will only last me 3 or 4 days. Will try keeping them in Brita filtered cold water and see how that goes....


Joey!

[Skip]

This is what i use for my blackworms.. :)
plus i always have a 1gallon of RO water from the grocery store in the fridge..

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20F125.jpg
http://www.aquaticfoods.com/images/afworm200.GIF

[Larry Bugg]

I was lucky and never had any health issues while feeding.

And this is my problem, I don't want to rely on luck. I know more people that have never had a problem..........................but I know a few that have. I don't want to take the risk and be one of the few. Freeze dried work just great for me.

[seanyuki]

Hey Skip......those live bw can last me for months......how may discus do you have.?



This is what i use for my blackworms.. :)
plus i always have a 1gallon of RO water from the grocery store in the fridge..

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20F125.jpg
http://www.aquaticfoods.com/images/afworm200.GIF

[Skip]

Francis.. i only have one container. i just stole the pic from google :)

i buy a couple of oz every week on the day the shipments come in.. on tues or friday.. usually last a week or 10 days

[jimfur]

I found the problems I had with them associated with the water they were in no matter how much I changed it, there was always alot of nasties in the water, had a vet check it out over a 6 month period. My discus always got white poo from them. I now have the blackworms growing in my 120 gallon tank with a gravel bottom. I know what the worms are eating and all I do is stir up the gravel and net them out. I vacuum the same as always but always there is quite a few in there. Since I have been doing it this way I never have a problem. But they are all in good water but growing naturally. I use freeze dried more but it is great to have some in case I get a few finicky eaters.

Jim

[Darrell Ward]

There is no luck to it. Buy your live blackworms, farm raised under controlled conditions by "Dan The Man" of California Blackworm Co. out in Fresno, aka Aquatic Foods Inc., and there should be no disease problems. I've used them for years, and currently, I'm using 4 lbs. per month. I have another order due Tuesday in fact. If Dan's worms caused disease, all my fish would have been dead years ago. It's really not that big a deal to keep them either. I rinse them once a day when I feed them to fish, and keep 2 lbs. at a time in a shallow, styrofoam shipping box in the fridge. The larger box cuts way down on the crowding. Those little blue keepers are way too small IMO. Maybe people have problems because they crowd the worms too much, fouling the water?

[moon_knight1971]

I wasn't aware of any health issues from Blackworms? I read about some people's issues with Bloodworms, mostly allegric reactions but haven't heard anything on Blackworms. Is it all worms? My fish like red Wigglers too. Do they harbor diseases? I just don't like chopping them up but will use them more if Blackworms are bad.

Joey!

[Vee]

Red wrigglers are terrestrial so they are free of water-borne parasites. I would give them a very good rinse in RO water before feeding to your fish.

[William Palumbo]

I love the live CBW's. As said, if possible, get them from Dan @ Aquatic Foods, straight from the source. IME most problems arise when buying thru 2nd and 3rd parties, especially if they are LFS's. Mine rinse constantly in a container of cold waste water from my RO unit, with an airstone in it as well. Fresh water enters the container, and older water overflows into my basement laundry sink. As stated in an earlier post, my only real problems came from from frozen Bloodworms...Bill

[zimmjeff]

I think that they are great. I have bought from dan and not had a problem. It only adds about two min to my morning routine. the fish love them and they don't pollute the water. I usually get a pound or pound and a half at a time.

[Scott293]

Live worms is why I got out of the hobby 20 years ago. They wiped me out of over 100 fish. "I would never", I repeat, "NEVER" feed live worms.

[atitagain]

There is no luck to it. Buy your live blackworms, farm raised under controlled conditions by "Dan The Man" of California Blackworm Co. out in Fresno, aka Aquatic Foods Inc., and there should be no disease problems. I've used them for years, and currently, I'm using 4 lbs. per month. I have another order due Tuesday in fact. If Dan's worms caused disease, all my fish would have been dead years ago. It's really not that big a deal to keep them either. I rinse them once a day when I feed them to fish, and keep 2 lbs. at a time in a shallow, styrofoam shipping box in the fridge. The larger box cuts way down on the crowding. Those little blue keepers are way too small IMO. Maybe people have problems because they crowd the worms too much, fouling the water?

+1 Although I only use a pound a month.

I have mine in a big flat plastic container and rinse them once a day.

I no longer feed FBW and the fish are doing well.

[ZX10R]

I only bought mine from Dan no one else. I am feeding Freeze Dried Blackworms now but I would like to keep the live ones in there diet from time to time.

[Nikkitine]

I'd never buy live blackworms from a lfs ever again. I've had too many bad experiences than good ones to be honest, but it could just be bad luck on my part. I now only use Al's FDBW and my fish are absolutely loving them. But if you'd really want live, I'd go with everyone's suggestion of ordering from Dan.

[Pardal]

I keep mine live black worms in a refrigarator the usual daily rinse. RO etc . plus I use AL's freeze dried one's . Of course there is a risk with mostly any live food. But IMHE The main problem I've seen with black worms is "adiction" black worms is like Crack for fish. And we all know there is not such thing as the perfect food. A balance diet should be are goal . So my advise is use Sparingly two or three times a week . just my 2 cents.

[Vee]

I keep mine live black worms in a refrigarator the usual daily rinse. RO etc . plus I use AL's freeze dried one's . Of course there is a risk with mostly any live food. But IMHE The main problem I've seen with black worms is "adiction" black worms is like Crack for fish. And we all know there is not such thing as the perfect food. A balance diet should be are goal . So my advise is use Sparingly two or three times a week . just my 2 cents.

+1

Everytime I cave and give blackworms to my fish, they go on a mini hunger strike.

[Sean Buehrle]

I know for sure that live blackworms led to the death of fish that up untill i fed lbw were the posterfish for health.
There are so many different viruses and germs in aquatic life that you never hear about let alone can identify . With that being said and the fact that these worms are raised outdoors, a person would have to be in denial to say there are no risks feeding them.
Ill never use them again, they aint worth it plus they are expensive and a pain in the butt to keep "healthy".

[jaykne]

I stopped useing FBW and started useing CBW's a long time ago and since then no more problems!!! I will only buy from Dan and make sure I clean them once a day. I feed BH in the morning Al's FDBW's in the afternoon and CBW at night but not to much, that is my adults diet and they are thick and always very healthy!!!
I don't feed CBW's to my fry first to expencive and I know some people don't like fish that have been fed CBW's. I think the biggest thing is always buy from them direct from Dan, and make sure you rinse them everyday!!!

[atitagain]

I stopped useing FBW and started useing CBW's a long time ago and since then no more problems!!! I will only buy from Dan and make sure I clean them once a day. I feed BH in the morning Al's FDBW's in the afternoon and CBW at night but not to much, that is my adults diet and they are thick and always very healthy!!!
I don't feed CBW's to my fry first to expencive and I know some people don't like fish that have been fed CBW's. I think the biggest thing is always buy from them direct from Dan, and make sure you rinse them everyday!!!

+1

I get a pound from Dan about once a month. I feed them BW in the morning and FBS in the evening just before their WC.

Unless you feed Flake or pellets you'll read something here that someone's fish got sick. I know a guy that feeds BH that had a bunch of fish get sick and he thought it was because it spoiled.

Keep them clean, it takes about a minute and you'll have real good results with BW if you get them from Dan.

[largewilliam]

Looks like my fridge. I go through alot of worms , never a problem. My wife calls the worms "Discus Crack"

[largewilliam]

I feed color bits and black worms. Wash em every night and never a problem. I have 7 tanks and everyone gets em.

[Moon]

I had some major issues feeding live CBW to my fish. I lost quite a few WC greens that were about to pair off.
So now it's Al FDCBW and beef heart. Haven't lost a fish in a while.
I must add that my supply of CBW came from a local store and not from Dan.

[yim11]

I strongly agree with the statement that I'd rather not use luck to keep my fish healthy - along those lines, I think this is a great thread to remind readers that EVERY SPEAKER at the 2010 NADA show in Dallas concluded that - "it's not a matter of if but when you have problems feeding live blackworms". That many discus professionals rarely agree on anything so I felt that was a very significant conclusion.

Better safe than sorry,
-jim

[atitagain]

I strongly agree with the statement that I'd rather not use luck to keep my fish healthy - along those lines, I think this is a great thread to remind readers that EVERY SPEAKER at the 2010 NADA show in Dallas concluded that - "it's not a matter of if but when you have problems feeding live blackworms". That many discus professionals rarely agree on anything so I felt that was a very significant conclusion.

Better safe than sorry,
-jim

Conversely I've seen threads here from guys that have used them from trusted sources for many years with no problems. I've also seen threads here of folks that swear they had problems linked back to FBW.

A trusted source and good housekeeping with BW makes a big difference.

[Darrell Ward]

Conversely I've seen threads here from guys that have used them from trusted sources for many years with no problems. I've also seen threads here of folks that swear they had problems linked back to FBW.

A trusted source and good housekeeping with BW makes a big difference.

Of course. Let's suppose for a moment that 100's of people are using live black worms at any given time. Probably most, if not all, originally came from the same source since I know of only one commercial grower. If these were the disease carrying "boogie men" that some people claim, why aren't most of these 100's of people using them also screaming that these damn things killed their fish? These claims just don't add up, and don't make good sense. Sure, their fish may have died, but how likely was it that the worms were the cause, when 100's of others using the same worms had no problems?

[jimg]

Of course. Let's suppose for a moment that 100's of people are using live black worms at any given time. Probably most, if not all, originally came from the same source since I know of only one commercial grower. If these were the disease carrying "boogie men" that some people claim, why aren't most of these 100's of people using them also screaming that these damn things killed their fish? These claims just don't add up, and don't make good sense. Sure, their fish may have died, but how likely was it that the worms were the cause, when 100's of others using the same worms had no problems?

+1

[jball1125]

live worns will always have a chance of carrying parasites. If you dont feel comfortable with that just go with Al's fdbw. Your fish will soon forget that live worws existed.

[DanCBW]

Of course. Let's suppose for a moment that 100's of people are using live black worms at any given time. Probably most, if not all, originally came from the same source since I know of only one commercial grower. If these were the disease carrying "boogie men" that some people claim, why aren't most of these 100's of people using them also screaming that these damn things killed their fish? These claims just don't add up, and don't make good sense. Sure, their fish may have died, but how likely was it that the worms were the cause, when 100's of others using the same worms had no problems?

Well said Darrell,
Normally I don't sound in and will not debate about it. Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion and
anyone who has used Blackworms has had their personal experience with them. I can just state
our facts. I ship to and have for years no less then twenty USFW Hatcheries who use them for
their projects, some of them are Endangered Species. Same with the State Hatcheries. Also numerous
Public Aquariums that range from the Monterey Bay Aq. in the West to The New England Aq. in the East
with a lot in between. We ship to major Universities both in Canada and the USA for their research projects.
We ship to two Fortune 100 Pharmaceutical Companies who feed them to their research specimens.
Also to numerous assorted Tropical Fish breeders here in the US, both professional and hobbyist breeders. Also a very large Wholesaler in Germany. Some acknowledge Blackworm use, some do not. Last but not least I periodically ship to a Discus breeder/exporter in Penang and KL Malaysia who uses and also supplies his Discus suppliers that he exports for. We all know the quality of fish that come out of Mayaysia.
As for what I ship, I will say this, the quantity has not dropped below 1200 lbs weekly for at least the
last 12-15 years and I have been doing it for apx 25 years. This is a lot of tons of Blackworms to a lot of end users for a lot of years. This isn't meant to sway anyone either way, its just a little Aquatic Foods in house info.

Dan
California blackworm Co.

[atitagain]

Dan,

I had problems when I feed frozen, since I switch over to your BW the fish has been doing great (knock on wood here) and have grown like beasts.

I've had much better success on flake, pellets and BW, good diet and healthy fish!

[ShinShin]

No! It is only a matter of time before live blackworms will cause you more problems than they are worth. The freezedried worms Mal and Al are selling are grown indoors, away from agents that could cause disease, and are most likely problem free. I am anti-live CBW's but have used Mal's freezedried with no problems.

Mat

[Skip]

what to do, what to do :(

[DanCBW]

; ) Yes ! As I said, Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion and also has the choice to use or not use. Anyone who has used or uses Blackworms has had their personal experience with them as do the people I currently ship to.

Dan

[Lenin]

and it's also only a matter of time when a water change will kill them also.

[Darrell Ward]

Indeed. Everyone does have their own opinion, and their own view of things. I sometimes find it humorous, but I suppose that's what makes the world interesting. Groups of people will never agree on anything, only to agree to disagree. :D

[atitagain]

and it's also only a matter of time when a water change will kill them also.

http://www.chitown-angler.com/1fish/images/smilies/bigyuck.gif

[Melissa]

The last spawn from my pair were grown out to 2-2 1/2 inches on Dans live worms :) I must say... I understand the risk associated with feeding live worms.... But I saw amazing and even growth throughout the spawn and they were some fat and sassy little fish let me tell you. I never fed them BH mix as kind of an experiment to see if they would grow just as well and I would say they grew just just as well if not better on the CBWs instead of BH mix. Just an experience I thought I would share.
Since I was dealing with babies, I should mention, I was more than careful about how I took care of the worms watching for signs of problems. Frequent rinsing following Dans instructions and bringing in fresh worms constantly worked out pretty good I'd say :) :)

Below are a couple of pictures of the juvies... They turned out great :)
I wanted to mention They readily accepted pellets and FDBWs when the time came to sell them and I was preparing them to be in other peoples care who would probably not feed live foods..... I was concerned they had been spoiled all of their lives on wiggling worms, but that was not the case.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250477_1895800647856_1626790161_1856782_7011192_n. jpghttp://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250477_1895800687857_1626790161_1856783_1211463_n. jpg

[atitagain]

Here's one of my pairs raised on Dan's CBW.

http://www.chitown-angler.com/pichosting/albums/userpics/10006/thecouple.png

[DanCBW]

Nice looking fish there !

Dan