white spots on discus

[mrblah00]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Two days ago i noticed my male leopard not looking so hot. His dorsal fin was laying down on his body and his color was off. Yesterday i noticed several white spots on his body. I removed him to a quarantine tank and did a scrape to look at under the microscope. Now if i knew what i was looking at it would be a big help. I found a few flukes but not many. Not sure where to go from here. What would i be looking for in the slime coat? Does anyone have some photos of different things that are bad to be looking for?



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

This fish is a little dark with white spots, i wouldn't describe them as zits. See photo below. Eyes are clear, he was eating before i moved him to QT.



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

No medication, just salt at 2 tbsp / 10 gallon



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

moved to 55 gallon from 240 display w/15 adult discus

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

240 display Has been up and running for 6 months? Sand substrate get's 50% WC and thorough vac of the sand 2x/week

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __86___

- ph __7.2___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading _0___

- nitrate reading __>5__

- well water ____

- municipal water __x__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

This fish is the male half of a breeding pair. He was removed from the breeder tank a week ago and added back to the community tank as he was bickering with mom. The fry seemed to all attach and feed from mom so he was out. He had a little split in the Dorsal Fin before i moved him, but he was starting to heal after a few days back in the community tank....Now he's less than good.
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx182/mrblah00/Discus/IMG_1205.jpg
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx182/mrblah00/Discus/IMG_1205.jpg

[Vee]

I wish I could help. I don't know what those spots are. Eddie??

[flyman767]

Looks like the notorious 'pimple(s)'. These are usually caused from the stirring of bacteria that lurks in the substrate. They normally will fall off and subside within a few days. However, some have reported bacteria issues which could lead to major health issues. The key is too keep the water exceptionally clean during this period. Once they fall off there will be a small open sore which can become infected very easily. You may want to consider a PP bath.

..Ray

[mrblah00]

Thanks for the reply Ray. After moving him to a QT tank and adding salt he appears much better, almost back to normal. As far as the substrate, we just use pool filter sand and vacuum it thoroughly two times per week while doing a 50 % WC. Should we not stir it as much?
Thanks again for the Reply,
Sam

[deepflyball]

If your going to have discus you need a supply of PP. it removes all things external,you name it it gets it. There are post on here on where to get it and how to use it. Jerry

[deepflyball]

IF you can get some pp you can get ahold of me on simply and i will give you my phone number and walk you threw it. That fish will be fine in a couple hours after one treatment of PP. Jerry

[mrblah00]

Thanks Jerry.
I think that i have a pretty good arsenal of meds, but i don't have PP and have been a little reluctant to use it. I have read a few horror stories on here but I imagine that with some good guidance i should be safe! Thanks for the advice, i will try to order some this weekend and get with you later in the week when it arrives.
Sam

[Melissa]

The great thing about PP is that it is not exactly a 'medication'. It works by oxidizing organic materials.... I prefer using PP over medication because, like Jerry said, it gets most everything. And I've found, instead of measuring PP powder or crystals to dose your tank each time you want to use it, it is MUCH easier to make a stock solution of the stuff.

[flyman767]

Thanks for the reply Ray. After moving him to a QT tank and adding salt he appears much better, almost back to normal. As far as the substrate, we just use pool filter sand and vacuum it thoroughly two times per week while doing a 50 % WC. Should we not stir it as much?
Thanks again for the Reply,
Sam

Sam,
I'm glad to hear he's doing better. I started raising my discus with with a gravel substrate, eventually moved to sand and now I'm bare bottom. I found no matter how hard I cleaned the substrate the discus eventually ended up with either the pimple or some type of bacteria infection. If your going to keep your sand substrate, I would recommend removing the feces directly off the top. You will need to aerate the sand periodically to remove any air pockets that may exist; however, I would disturb the sand as little as possible.

As far as using PP...I would recommend using Carol Roberts step by step which can be found here on SD. Very easy to follow and you won't have to worry about using too much or too little.

...Ray

[mrblah00]

Okay, well the white slime has made a reappearance. I talked to a local water treatment guy and he's going to give me some PP crystals tomorrow. (he keeps oscars and thought this was an awesome idea) Would PP be the preferred treatment or would I be better to treat with an antibiotic? After the PP treatment how long should I leave him isolated before returning him to the display tank?
Thanks again for all of the help,
Sam

[deepflyball]

A PP treat ment last 2- 3 hrs and fish will recover very fast. I just did a friends about a week ago. This fish was an adult had clamped fins laying on the bottom of its tank (29 gal ) and was near death. We gave him a treatment for 3 hrs did a water change and he was as good as new. In fact it was the female of a pair of flachens. My frend called a day or 2 ago and said they were pecking on there cone. PP removes anythin on the exterier if the fish. You are removing a slime coat. I worked my whole life in Nuclear Power, and we use PP to remove rad material from people. Not to scare anyone these are extrem cases. But we removed the rad material from people by removing layers of skin. If you need more imfo message me with your phone number

[mrblah00]

Okay, i have the PP crystals! I'm a little nervous about this but I've been reading a few things about making the solution. I was looking at this article on page 12 here: http://www.discusnada.org/SampleNADAnewsletter.pdf Is this the recommended route or is there a different approach that is recommended?
Thanks,
Sam

[flyman767]

Okay, i have the PP crystals! I'm a little nervous about this but I've been reading a few things about making the solution. I was looking at this article on page 12 here: http://www.discusnada.org/SampleNADAnewsletter.pdf Is this the recommended route or is there a different approach that is recommended?
Thanks,
Sam

Sam,
That's it! It is the one I use all the time. Something that's not talked about with regards to treatment: if you use a dechlorinator, it will neutralize the PP and render it totally ineffective. Therefore, I always use RO water when performing the treatment. Just make
sure the Ph's are closely matched between the treatment tank and your existing tank. Also, you can use a dechlorinator to neutralize the treatment after 4 hours if you don't
have hydrogen peroxide. Good luck!

...Ray

[mrblah00]

Sam,
That's it! It is the one I use all the time. Something that's not talked about with regards to treatment: if you use a dechlorinator, it will neutralize the PP and render it totally ineffective. Therefore, I always use RO water when performing the treatment. Just make
sure the Ph's are closely matched between the treatment tank and your existing tank. Also, you can use a dechlorinator to neutralize the treatment after 4 hours if you don't
have hydrogen peroxide. Good luck!

...Ray

I do use prime. I don't have an RO system. How do i go about this then? I do have a 20 gallon qt tank that i'm going to use. How long do i need to wait after adding prime before i can use the PP?
Thanks.

[flyman767]

I don't know how long you have to wait while using prime. The first time I used PP, I had filled my QT with water that was treated with prime and the solution went from pink to clear immediately. You have a few options:

1) If you know your water is treated with chlorine you can use a carbon filter to remove it. (chloramines cannot be removed by carbon)

2) Treat you QT with prime and wait. You will need to test the PP solution before adding the fish. If the solution stays a steady pink you should be good to go; however if the PP goes clear, then you will have to wait it out longer before the next test.

3) Use distilled water. You don't need 20G. If you are only going to add a few fish, 10G in a 20G QT will be fine.


Just remember..whatever water you use you need to be sure the PH in the QT closely resembles the water they are currently acclimated to.

...Ray

[mrblah00]

So i went ahead with the PP treatment last night! This fish is looking SO much better!
Thanks everyone for your help, i really appreciate it.
Jerry, i sent you a PM.
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx182/mrblah00/Discus/IMG_1245.jpg

Thanks all,
Sam

[flyman767]

Hard to believe thats the same snakeskin. I had to double back on your pic from the first post. Glad it all worked out.

...Ray

[Vee]

Wow, what a difference! I can't believe it's the same fish. Glad about the outcome.

[deepflyball]

Sam that picture is all i need. Good luck my friend....... Jerry

[Skip]

that is not the same fish! no way.. really!?

[hedut]

well looking good for firts time PP, any external problem use PP :)

[wendy9722]

OMG!! I cant believe that is the same fish. I'm glad it worked out for ya.