water change question

[gabloo]

I am wondering if anyone do water change with warm water straight from tap? If you use cold water, do you warm it up with your heater before you pour into your tank? What will happen if I put cold water straight into the tank after 60 % water change?

[christian1971]

Don't add cold water! Someone told me that if ph of aquarium water is similar to tap, they would get approximate temp of tap and add. I would avoid going straight to tank and put in bucket. Then add Prime or Safe and then to tank. I personally would let it a sit in barrel for 24 hrs with heater and a pump. Cold I think could shock the fish. But I am no expert.

[ericatdallas]

It's always better to add water that's about the same temperature up to a few degrees warmer. Avoid colder water.

I don't know if it's bad or not, but it works for me (some people may argue about the wisdom of it though). I add water a little colder sometimes (to simulate rainfall). I normally keep my tank at 86F, so I'll send water that's 83F sometimes. Just to make my life simpler, I usually don't tweak it if it's between 83-89F.

Definitely don't just add cold water. After a few WCs you should get a feel of where your water should be by sight and feel.

[zimmjeff]

I agree with eric a few degrees is not bad but do not add straight cold water. If I think that my fish are ready to breed I will do a few degrees cooler and have had good luck with that. It seams to push them over the edge into breeding.

[Skip]

why would you put in cold water?!

i go str8 from tap.. and i add warm water.. not too cold or not too hot.. just close to tank temp.. add safe to tank, then filler up :)

[moon_knight1971]

I do straight from tap into my tank too. Just add Seachem Safe to the tank before I add the new water. I adjust temp by touch.

Joey!

[Sean Buehrle]

I always at least let water age with prime for a couple hours but preferably overnight.
If people knew how chlorine and chloramines can affect a fish they would probably never add unchlorinated water straight into a tank.
With the way our water companys dose chloramines in different situations i feel its flirting with disaster to not age water and allow dechlorinators to do thier job.

To each his own though.

[ericatdallas]

Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea to age water. IF I had the room I would DEFINITELY do it. For those of us that don't have the room, I think it's reasonable level of exposure. It's a calculated risk that each hobbyist has to answer for him/herself.

there's a maximum allowable dose of 4 ppm chloramines and chlorine in tap water (ref (http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/disinfectants.cfm)). It takes about 5 minutes (I can't cite this, I read this when I was resaerching dechlorinators) for prime to completely react. In my area, I think the water company has an average of 1ppm.

So if you have dechlor in there, in the time the tank fills up, most of the reaction will have occured (which is why I put dechlor in the tank before the water).

[decula]

We keep 2 33 gallon trash containers filling with RO water here almost ever other day. Really hard water.
One of the things I've found to help warm it up to match the tank temp is something called a Bucket Water Heater
on Amazon. about $40 for something around 1000 to 1500 waters gets one container from room temp to 82F in
about 30 minutes. The one we found has a cut off at 105F, so if you fall asleep in the middle of waiting, you
won't burn the house down or get a shocking electric bill. Not that I've ever done that - LOL.

In emergencies, I have used conditioned, warm water from the tap. It's a lot less dangerous than a severe
ammonia spike.

-dec

[Jhhnn]

Makeup water needs to be very near the same temp as tank water whether it's aged or straight from the tap.


filling from the tap has its hazards, particularly in the winter when mains water temps are low. Gasses are much more soluble in cold water than warm, so incoming water has more than water at tank temp. Heating mains water doesn't release the gas because it's pressurized. Putting it in your tank does, but the gasses take some time to form microbubbles to escape. Because fish membranes are highly permeable, microbubbles can form inside the fish, which is very bad, possibly lethal. Tap water needs to splash in at the very least, or be introduced through a degassing mechanism like a sprayer, degassing column, or piece of coarse foam if bubbles are seen to form in the tank while refilling...

I condition, heat & strongly aerate tap water for 24hrs before putting it in my tanks & have gone to considerable lengths to make that easy. For people who can do that, I think it's worth the trouble.

[ericatdallas]

Tap water needs to splash in at the very least, or be introduced through a degassing mechanism like a sprayer, degassing column, or piece of coarse foam if bubbles are seen to form in the tank while refilling...


Is it a coarse foam or a fine foam? I don't do either, but I would think coarse foam would let the microbubbles through more than fine foam although either would probably help more than hurt.

[Sean Buehrle]

I was on the phone with the guy from the filter guys today and he told me that water straight from the tap is almost oxygen free. I dont know if its true or not but he does make his living dealing with water. so if that true, its just one more reason to age your water with some sort of airation.

[ericatdallas]

I was on the phone with the guy from the filter guys today and he told me that water straight from the tap is almost oxygen free. I dont know if its true or not but he does make his living dealing with water. so if that true, its just one more reason to age your water with some sort of airation.

That didn't sit right with me and I knew I had read something about those bubbles being oxygen. It's wikipedia, so ... well, it may not the most reliable source, but those microbubbles are oxygen. So either you have no oxygen or you have no bubbles...



"Tap water can sometimes appear cloudy, and this is often mistaken for a mineral impurity in the water. Cloudy water, also known as white water, is actually caused by air bubbles coming out of solution in the water. Because cold water holds more air than warm water, small bubbles will appear in water with a high dissolved oxygen content that is heated or depressurized, because this reduces how much dissolved gas the water can hold. This condition is completely harmless, and the cloudiness of the water disappears quickly as the gas is released from the water."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_water

Another source, a home brew guy tested O2 waters in his water... a blog so don't put too much weight into it..



I filled a gallon jug with water from the cold tap, which was about 50-degrees. That gave me 4.2 ppm of O2. I put an air stone and aquarium pump in there for 5 minute and that bumped it up to 6.3 ppm. I left it on for 5 more, and it bumped it up to 6.9 ppm. I then put in a 0.5 micron stone with O2 for 60 seconds, and it peaked the meter at 20+ ppm.
http://blog.flaminio.net/blogs/index.php/beer/oxygen/dissolved-oxygen-when-is-it-too-much

I think the reason there's no definitive answer of how much DO is in water is because it depends on temperature and salinity of the water (more salt, less oxygen).

So my guess is, again, although helpful to age water, it's probably there in sufficient levels and will probably quickly dissolve in the water as it's filling a tank. I suppose if you were to suddenly dump 75G of water from the tap to a tank you -might- have issues but oxygen is dissolving into the water as it leaves the hose, as it's filling, and as more water is filling. In fact, the movement of the water will help O2 dissolve in. I don't know about you, I also keep my air pump on while filling the tank and turn the filters on as soon as it reaches the appropriate level. I've seen my fish get deprived of oxygen before (air pump died, closed lid) and they don't look like that when i fill the tank.

[Sean Buehrle]

Those bubbles could also hold alot of ammonia or chlorine. What are the chances they are pure oxygen?

[noobF1]

So with this water change topic i have question for myself. I've been doing water changes straight from my restroom sink, had no problems. I notice now with the cold weather so i use a little more hot water from the sink to the tank. After all the water is fill up. Lots and lots of bubbles all over the wall my plant pots, diftwood, pretty much all over the tank, even on my discus. It never happened before when i used cooler water (less hot water from sink). Is it bad for my discus? I try and do water change everyday if not every other day. Drain water to sink with filter running, air sponge filter running, heater on. Then i had prime, and fill up from the sink with as close as possible temp i can get.

[ericatdallas]

Those bubbles could also hold alot of ammonia or chlorine. What are the chances they are pure oxygen?

if we're speculating then I would say about 20% of the trapped gases are oxygen.

Chlorine and ammonia (in the form of chloramine (?) )? That's what Safe or prime or whatever sulfite compound you are using as your dechlor are for...

[Offpath]

It's important to note that the chlorine that is used to treat water is *not* chlorine gas. The air bubbles do not contain chlorine.

[Northwoods Discus]

JMO I thought a large portion of the dissolved gas was CO2 and was the reason for the Ph shift when off gassed during aging of the water?

[ericatdallas]

JMO I thought a large portion of the dissolved gas was CO2 and was the reason for the Ph shift when off gassed during aging of the water?

It's probably dependent on the supply. I have a lot of gas bubbles but zero pH shift with my water even after aging, sitting, etc. When I did the Google, I found a full range of answers, which means most people 1) don't care 2) it probably varies wildly.

[Sean Buehrle]

It's important to note that the chlorine that is used to treat water is *not* chlorine gas. The air bubbles do not contain chlorine.
If its not a gas how does it dissipate in open containers.

Does it turn into a gas when the pressure is released after leaving the pipes under pressure?

[annj]

Never add cold water, not even cool water. Discus like a temp of 82-88F with upper limits for breeding. Even cool water can cause shock. I use room temp water. Bottled mineral water. That way I do not have to worry about ph or amonia or water conditioner.