Any one seen this discus strain before?

[discolicious]

Hey guys, was browsing the web and came across this discus called a "Japanese Samurai". I've never seen one quite like it. Has anyone else seen this before? Know if it's a "strain" or just an "occurrence"?

67150

[Hsunami]

PB wide bar TURK! LOL shrugs

[jball1125]

Sort of reminds me of the Jack Wattley Red Panda. Just another name for a certain pigeon blood strain.

[Gillmann]

They are being sold by Sunrise Tropicals as Samuri Pigeons for $200 each. I really like them!!

[Skip]

They are being sold by Sunrise Tropicals as Samuri Pigeons for $200 each. I really like them!!


thats an outrageous price for a Pigeon Blood..

[Gillmann]

thats an outrageous price for a Pigeon Blood..

True, but I still like them.

[Skip]

True, but I still like them.

well PT Barnum has a very famous quote.. i believe it applys to ever pays these prices.... :)

[Gillmann]

Ouch! I never said I bought any....too expensive for my wallet.
There is also a saying about beauty being in the eye of the beholder...

[Skip]

Ouch! I never said I bought any....too expensive for my wallet.
There is also a saying about beauty being in the eye of the beholder...

i know it wasn't you.. but i feel for people that dont' know any better.. like the ones that buy from international rainforest and Somethingpishy:(

[Darrell Ward]

It's just a pigeon, no matter the name. There are many variations of them. At least that one's pretty clean. Probably many of them sold are not. :D

[Gillmann]

i know it wasn't you.. but i feel for people that dont' know any better.. like the ones that buy from international rainforest and Somethingpishy:(

At this point I have not ventured into purchasing any discus that I have not seen myself, but I would be far more inclined to trust some of the folks I have met on this forum.

[Skip]

At this point I have not ventured into purchasing any discus that I have not seen myself, but I would be far more inclined to trust some of the folks I have met on this forum.

:thumbsup:

[Elite Aquaria]

I agree it is just a Pigeon Blood...PB's have a vast variability when it comes to color patterns within the same line.

[ockyra215]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! So what one may pay for something is totally up to them. Look at kenny selling show quality discus ay $800 each.
JMO :-)

[DiscusOnly]

I agree it is just a Pigeon Blood...PB's have a vast variability when it comes to color patterns within the same line.

Very true Dan.

I have a tank of full of PB offspring from a PB juvie that I got from you a few years ago. They all have various pattern with some more interesting than others.

I guess the bottom line is that these pattern PB are worth as much as what someone is willing to pay for that look. I think if you breed these, you are not going to get a high percentage fish looking like that. Probably a lot of peppered one (like another person mentioned).

Van

[Teh]

It looks like PB to me and it is interesting see new EXOTIC names.

[discolicious]

I'm not sure what "just a pigeon blood" means in this context. I assume all discus fish are "just" a "something". The point is that every domestic strain we have known as the historical beginnings (the ones initially bred from the wilds) have led to a huge variety of spotted, striped, solid, etc. I can't keep up with all the different "leopards", nor tell them apart from some of the "eruptions", spotted greens, or whatevers. I personally only like the ones that have true "leopard rings".

When something different comes out of a common line and catches our eye, I suppose it's a novelty and the price is market controlled. It's worth whatever anyone will pay for it. The phrase "it's just a pigeon blood" sounds like some kind of "discus snobbery", and referring to people who would buy them as "suckers" sounds judgmental. That particular fish has a very nice shape (look at the rounded head) and rich coloration for a PB. the unique pattern makes it novel. If they breed true, then they have every right to the same consideration as any other strain (like the Blue PB, Silver PB, Red PB, CBPB, etc.) popping up almost daily. Also to consider is the size. It's a 6" fish. The 6" Blue PBs on Hans' site are $215. The Red PBs are 200, the Silver PBs are 250...Are they worth that? .. of course they are.. to anyone who likes the way they look and wants one.

If entered in a show in the proper category, a $200 fish from a common line could take "best in show" if it happened to have all the qualities a judge should be looking for. To discount it because it's "just a pigeon blood" would be unprofessional.

[DiscusOnly]

I'm not sure what "just a pigeon blood" means in this context. I assume all discus fish are "just" a "something". The point is that every domestic strain we have known as the historical beginnings (the ones initially bred from the wilds) have led to a huge variety of spotted, striped, solid, etc. I can't keep up with all the different "leopards", nor tell them apart from some of the "eruptions", spotted greens, or whatevers. I personally only like the ones that have true "leopard rings".

When something different comes out of a common line and catches our eye, I suppose it's a novelty and the price is market controlled. It's worth whatever anyone will pay for it. The phrase "it's just a pigeon blood" sounds like some kind of "discus snobbery", and referring to people who would buy them as "suckers" sounds judgmental. That particular fish has a very nice shape (look at the rounded head) and rich coloration for a PB. the unique pattern makes it novel. If they breed true, then they have every right to the same consideration as any other strain (like the Blue PB, Silver PB, Red PB, CBPB, etc.) popping up almost daily. Also to consider is the size. It's a 6" fish. The 6" Blue PBs on Hans' site are $215. The Red PBs are 200, the Silver PBs are 250...Are they worth that? .. of course they are.. to anyone who likes the way they look and wants one.

If entered in a show in the proper category, a $200 fish from a common line could take "best in show" if it happened to have all the qualities a judge should be looking for. To discount it because it's "just a pigeon blood" would be unprofessional.

I can't speak for others but to me, it's "just a pigeon blood" is more about the fact that this is just a pigeon blood with pattern. Calling it "Japanese Samurai" is just funny. If someone is going to buy that discus, I hope it's because of the pattern, size and health.. not because of the name.

[Skip]

The phrase "it's just a pigeon blood" sounds like some kind of "discus snobbery", and referring to people who would buy them as "suckers" sounds judgmental. .

yes.. i am a DISCUS SNOB.. its still a pigeon blood.. nothing fancy about it.. calling it Japanese Samurai is just smoke and mirrors.. to make it seem that line of fish is something new or exotic.. but to your OP.. its a Pigeon blood Strain..

imho..
ps.. discus snobbery is a slight flaw in my character.. LOL ;)
pss.. however, that fish in that PIC is a very nice fish.. where ever the pic was taken..

[Skip]

If someone is going to buy that discus, I hope it's because of the pattern, size and health.. not because of the name.
that was what i was trying to say.. in my post above this.. LOL>>>> you said it way better and short & sweet!

[seanyuki]

It's a very nice pigeon discus......nice pattern/shape and color and good for breeding.......great for Tony (Sunrise Tropical) in bringing those discus......many people here in Simply Discus bought discus from him.

[discolicious]

I can't speak for others but to me, it's "just a pigeon blood" is more about the fact that this is just a pigeon blood with pattern. Calling it "Japanese Samurai" is just funny. If someone is going to buy that discus, I hope it's because of the pattern, size and health.. not because of the name.

Thanks Vlam... I see what you mean. My next question (sincerely) would be if a pattern breeds true, then isn't that an important characteristic for considering a new name (if not a new strain)? For example, the "checkerboard PB". And if it turns out that this "Japanese Samurai (pigeon)" is actually a cross between, say a RT and a PB, and assuming the offspring bred true, wouldn't that qualify it as a new strain?

BTW ... Does anyone know if the silver PB, Red PB and the Blue PB are actually crosses, or just patterns that cropped up and held true?

I wonder if any of the others on here have a PB like that? Maybe the vibrant colors are more common than I believed. At least to my eye these are unique to any PBs I've seen personally. But if others have pics of theirs, with patterns similar to these, I'd love to see them. (pics please) Yes... I like PBs.:)

[Skip]

Yes... I like PBs.:)

:thumbsup:

[seanyuki]

I got some SPC from Brandon Wu.....I really like them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?65370-Super-Pigeon-Checkerboards&highlight=super+checkeboard+pigeons

[discolicious]

:thumbsup:

Well Skip, 2 of us... We're almost enough to start a PB club!

[discolicious]

I got some SPC from Brandon Wu.....I really like them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?65370-Super-Pigeon-Checkerboards&highlight=super+checkeboard+pigeons

Thanks Francis.. those are really nice ones.

Tom

[Skip]

I got some SPC from Brandon Wu.....I really like them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?65370-Super-Pigeon-Checkerboards&highlight=super+checkeboard+pigeons

i think those are JAPANESE NINJA.. not Japanese Samurai

[seanyuki]

Hope to see more pics of Pigeon discus..............share yr pics.......great for the forum

[Discus Origins]

Thanks Vlam... I see what you mean. My next question (sincerely) would be if a pattern breeds true, then isn't that an important characteristic for considering a new name (if not a new strain)? For example, the "checkerboard PB". And if it turns out that this "Japanese Samurai (pigeon)" is actually a cross between, say a RT and a PB, and assuming the offspring bred true, wouldn't that qualify it as a new strain?

BTW ... Does anyone know if the silver PB, Red PB and the Blue PB are actually crosses, or just patterns that cropped up and held true?

I wonder if any of the others on here have a PB like that? Maybe the vibrant colors are more common than I believed. At least to my eye these are unique to any PBs I've seen personally. But if others have pics of theirs, with patterns similar to these, I'd love to see them. (pics please) Yes... I like PBs.:)

That's the thing with the PB line, you can breed two very similar parents and still end up with a multiple variant of young. For a true strain to be established the fish needs to be line bred and crossed back over 9-10 generations. Most of the 'strains' coming out of Asia are all variants, most don't breed true. They take the best colors/patterns of the group, name them something catchy and sell.

[DiscusOnly]

Well Skip, 2 of us... We're almost enough to start a PB club!

I am a big fan of clean PB. You start a club, I'll join.

I have 18 of these left from my spawn last year. Here is the parent and some interesting pattern young adult that I plan to breed with this winter. Pictures from a few months ago so most have the full pattern now.

Van

[DiscusOnly]

I got some SPC from Brandon Wu.....I really like them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?65370-Super-Pigeon-Checkerboards&highlight=super+checkeboard+pigeons

They are nice Francis. That's what I am trying to work on with my breeding stock. I like to have a full tank or two of those.

Van

[Cevoe]

I am also a Pigeon Blood fan and think that a clean example of good size and shape should command a decent price, especially considering how many bad ones are out there.
I would consider the fish in the first picture of this thread to be ok but not a premium example.
Also, the end of this thread touches on what constitutes a recognized strain:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?88067-Bleher-s-Discus-vol.-2

Van,
That group you have looks awesome, by the way.

[annj]

If you want healthy discus buy from Hans Stendker. The fish are healthy, beautiful and their strain is good.

[annj]

Somthingphisy is rated F by the Florida BBB. They do not have a listed phone number. BBB says their phone number has been turned off. They do not answer their emails and they will send you fish that do not look anything like what you thought you ordered. BE careful. Stick with a reputable dealer: like Hans Stendker.

[Sean Buehrle]

Jack wattley bred that fish 15 years ago, was called a red panda i believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DiscusOnly]

I am also a Pigeon Blood fan and think that a clean example of good size and shape should command a decent price, especially considering how many bad ones are out there.
I would consider the fish in the first picture of this thread to be ok but not a premium example.
Also, the end of this thread touches on what constitutes a recognized strain:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?88067-Bleher-s-Discus-vol.-2

Van,
That group you have looks awesome, by the way.

Thanks Chris.

I always had a shortage of female discus and but there is probably about 14 out of the 18 that is female. Will have to wait and see. I'll be if I can get 2-3 pairs out of the group to spawn.

Van

[vss]

It's a new variety of PB developed in Malaysia in recent years, not sure if it can be called as a new "strain" though. Several breeders are breeding similar lines and sell them at different names. Some of them have very large red area at the center of the body, and the boundary between the red and white striations are kind of blurred. Looks like it might be related to the Asian type red panda.

http://b-collection.net/goods_image/A1458_Z3.jpg

http://mishima-aqua.com/img/farmintro/2009-08-04-IMG_4265.jpg

http://b-collection.net/goods_image/A1485_Z1.jpg

http://www.the-discus.com/shop/gokujou/super/06/fish.jpg

Courtsy of B-collections:

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1420_Z3.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1420_Z2.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1420_Z1.jpg



Xiaofei :)

[vss]

A unique one imported by a german. sry I forgot who the owner is...


http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/2.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/1.jpg


again this one was exported to Japan...

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1321_Z2.jpg


Xiaofei :)

[Gillmann]

Beautiful fish!!!

[wendy9722]

A unique one imported by a german. sry I forgot who the owner is...


http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/2.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/1.jpg


again this one was exported to Japan...

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1321_Z2.jpg


Xiaofei :)

WOW those are outstanding!!!! I would love to have a couple of those.

[aussiejas]

A unique one imported by a german. sry I forgot who the owner is...


http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/2.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/1.jpg


again this one was exported to Japan...

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww299/vincesun/bld%20pg/b-collectionnet__A1321_Z2.jpg


Xiaofei :)

These fish are awesome,, i like them alot.

[Rex82]

I think the clean pigeon bloods do earn the higher price tag personally. Anyone who has bred pigeons would know that it doesn't matter how clean the parents are, there are still quite a percentage of peppered fry. Supply v demand i guess. The good thing about breeding pigeons is that it's still a surprise what the fry grow up to look like no matter how similar the parents are to eachother. Even when breeding 2 identical looking siblings together there will still be variation in the fry.