My Introduction

[JustinKScott]

I have one discus for about 2-3 months. Bought him before I understood the commitment I was getting into. I know I'm a bad fish parent.

Problem is I've really taken to the little guy. So I've decided discus is the way forward for me.

I had a 180g tank, community. He lived in there for about a month, he would eat, but was always out paced for food. He would brighten up, but would be dark periodically throughout the day. I decided this was not the way he was supposed to live.

I decided what I wanted was a planted discus tank. Moved him to a 10g for maybe a month so I could take more direct care of him; while i looked for his new home. He colored up, and would eat more excitedly. I'd fed him a gum drop of blood worms a day.

I finally found and bought a 80g bowfront last week; so I tore down my 180g, and sold most of my fish. The filter never stopped running so I set it up for 2 days and tested it until I was satisfied everything was working. Yesterday, he was admitted to his new home. He is exploring and hiding most of the day, stays colored but doesn't eat like he used to.

So now my tank specs are:
80g bowfront
Fluval g6
Aqueon pro 250w heater
10lbs Co2
4x t5ho; 2.7w/g
White sand, planted.

Water params are
0 ammo/nitrites
.05ppm nitrates for the plants
Ph 6.6

Very lightly planted right now, just to try things out. Have some experience with plants before, but never had this high tech of a setup before. Looking forward to growing like mad.

Tiger lotus
Amazon sword
Micro Chain sword
Melon sword
Hc

Right now my biggest problem is I'm confused what I should be feeding him. I've fed him blood worms and tetra granules up till now. But I've no idea how much or what I really should be feeding him. I fed once a day; he is 2.5-3". I read the intro pages and don't want to mix my own recipes. Is there not one or more something(s) I can just buy and feed?

[zchauvin]

Welcome to SD first off. There are quite a few things people will say so I will get most of them out the way. You could of course go to the forums and look it up but I have spare time lol. If its your first time with discus people will say toose the sand. I have 6 juvies in 75g with sand and it is a bit harder to clean but I don't like bare bottom. Bare bottom would be better if you care about looks of fish not tank. Get at least five more discus, they do 100% better in groups of six or more. Never buy from a local fish store. They are over priced and get fish from all different places thus causing cross contaminants. For young fish feed beef heart( can be bought cubed almost anywheres.) 3-5 time a day. Brine shrimp are good, bloodworms are good but no nutritional value, tetra granules are good, black worms also 2-3 times a day. There are many. Shoot for 6-8 feeding a day. I would suggest water changes of 50% at minimum eod a week for your size fish. Don't forget dechlorinaters such as prime or safe. Perfect water quality is a must. Water temp would stay 82-88 f. I sure there is much more but ill let others chime in. Off to work now, Good luck :) one other thing, is personal opinion but if you must have plants try to be low tech and lose co2 as not to gas discus also keep lighting low. Your fish will only be stressed and hide if the light is bright.

[ankor]

JustinKScott, why have you bought a juvenile fish?
I guess because it was affordable to you.
Juvenile fish is like a baby- needs lots of food and lots of nappies changes.
From now, you need to ask yourself what your target is.
If your target is the same to breeders’ one- grow as quick as possible then sell, then you need to put your fish in a relatively small tank, hike the temperature to 86 degrees or so, feed it every hour and clean the tank after feeding including big water changes to keep the water quality high. And yes, forget about plants then.
If it sounds lots of hassle to you, and you want to have plants then leave the temp comfortable to plants but high enough for discus. Feed it 2-3 times a day, but you may stunt the fish if it doesn’t get enough nutrients etc

[Skip]

Welcome..

the biggest problem you have ..is that you trying to do.. is you are a jack of all trades, and master of none...

decide plants or fish.. start with one.. and build up experience.. then add the other.. ONCE you are master of other.. ie.. DON"T KILL ANYTHING over a period of time..
discus are happiest in groups of 5-6.. 1 discus by himself is a very unhappy fish.. if you think he is happy.. you should see him when he has 5 other buddies.. (AFTER QT~)

[JustinKScott]

Thanks for the replies. I've read a bit about stunting growth. But am unsure what that actually means. Does that mean he would never get any larger than he is now or that he will reach 5" but not 6"?

Jack of all trades but master of none is correct. But as I'm a hobbyist and not a breeder, I'll be perfectly happy with not being a master.

My goal is to learn from him. I want him to grow to at least 4.5". I'm not sure where this hobby will ultimately take me.. But as an amateur angelfish breeder, I'm sure I'll probably try to breed them (probably not this one) eventually.

How young to they have to be to start pairing? Is he already too old?

So going through the suggestions...
Glass bottom... Won't do it. I understand I'm in for punishment.

Drop the plants, gas, and high light. He seems to not mind it; I suspect other discus will adapt as well.

Get more discus. Well now you are talking! So as I hate my LFS, where should buy more disc? Here on the forum? Is there a way to look up local breeders (SE Washington state)? What size should I buy? When I dump 5 other discus in there is he going to get mad and attack them?

Water quality, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong... But it doesn't seem that hard (in my experience) to maintain 0ammo/0nititres/

[JustinKScott]

Reply2

The tap water is actually very good here. No ammo, no chlorine. Ph is high; 7.5 ish. But the co2 fixes that for me. Water form the tap is hard, but I'm not sure if the co2 is doing it or what; but the tank water some how becomes soft. I'm not using a pillow softener.

Food. Ok so my blood worms are tasty, but are really just a treat. Got it.

6feedings a day is tough, as I work 8h shift. So automatic timer with dry foods?

Where do I find black heart?

I've tried beefheart.. He turns his nose up at it. What should I do?

[Cambik]

I personally have 7 3+ inch discus and feed about once an hour (I work from home) but several do set a auto feeder with dry foods such as flakes or tetracolor bits. I use about 6 different foods for my guys and they appear happy. JMO

[zchauvin]

Take half the cube of beefheart and throw in with the bloodworms. Blackworms and discus can be found here in the sponsor section. Called California blackworms.

[zchauvin]

For fish go to discus Hans in sponsor section also.

[Skip]

Kenny is also on the WEST COAST.. as is Bill, INLAND EMPIRE Discus.. and LUCKY TROPICAL imports into CALI.. so there are 3 sponsors a couple of states south of you.. go to their sections and look thru their threads..

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Justin,

Welcome to SD! I love the new tank. Not sure your discus is going to be loving it till he has some friends to share it with though. =)

If you have a smaller tank where he could comfortably live for 6 weeks, it might be better to put him in there and then use the big tank as your "QT" for your new discus. They'd appreciate the space a whole lot more. The hard part is going to be adding your current discus to the big tank after QT without him getting picked on.

Ok, the basics in short form, ready? (Grab coffee!)

1) You don't have any plants that really demand CO2 right now, and it will make life MUCH more difficult for raising juvie discus, so If it was me I'd just turn it off for the time being. The plants will do just fine without it, though growth will be slightly slower...which is ok! You can turn it back on and start creating a lush underwater garden once your discus are over 5".

2) The sand and plants you have are fine for growing out young discus so long as you're willing to make the extra commitment to keeping the tank sparkling clean. I raised mine in a planted tank and had to make a lot of adjustments along the way in order to keep my fish happy and healthy. I lost the plants that took a beating from the constant water changes, changed the substrate in order to benefit the fish and my own cleaning time, etc. You'll figure that part out as you go. =)

3) Water changes - no one here is just making stuff up when they say that you'll need to do a daily water change if you want to successfully raise juvie discus. It's what they require. Some people have doggedly ignored that advice and done it their way...and for a few of them it works out, and the rest end up posting in the disease section of this site. Discus get stressed if they don't have fresh clean water to swim in, and stressed fish end up sick fish. It's just easier to do the WC's and know that your fish are healthy.

4) We all run bio-filters, we just each have our own favorite types. =)

5) Water flow - I noticed that you're running a power head in the tank. They are awesome, just make sure the flow isn't too much for the discus. If it's blowing your plants over, it's gonna blow your young discus over. Discus don't care for a lot of water current simply because of the shape of their body. It isn't designed for fighting current.

6) Feedings - You can get away with fewer feedings a day if you do the "buffet line" type feeding at night when you get home from work. Just give them one big feeding of flakes or pellet food in the morning, and then start with the buffet when you get home. Give them small amounts of all different kinds of foods thoughout the evening. If you're going to feed a high quality protein rich food once a day, make sure it's one hour before your water change. That way you can suck out the leftover bits before they foul the tank.

7) Discus do love their bloodworms, but those suckers are better for a rare treat. You can switch to freeze dried blackworms. Al (the forum owner) sells them and my fish LOVE them! I started out at one cube per feeding and now I'm up to 6 cubes at a time and they don't last more than 5 minutes from the time they hit the water. Discus also learn to enjoy discus flakes, pellets, spirulina and homemade or commercial frozen foods. It easiest to buy a variety of high quality foods. Your fish will love you for it.

I think that's everything. Oh wait, water parameters. Your pH is fine from the tap, so don't worry about dropping the CO2 for now.

To find good discus, just head to the sponsor section of the forums. I personally LOVE Hans discus. Hans is awesome to deal with, your fish will be big and healthy when they arrive and well...they're gorgeous! I'm sure others will chime in with their favorite breeders here. I hear all good things about Mike Beals and Kenny, but haven't purchased from them.

[discolicious]

Welcome Justin... If you check the forum section on "food and nutrition" you will find lots of information. Many of us use Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef flakes. If your fish are getting the nutrition they need and enjoy their food, anything else is just your own enjoyment or preference. I do feed mine frozen shrimp, blood worms, black worms, and some beef heart... I do it because I like to pretend that surely they get bored with their flakes (they don't seem to) like I get bored with daily salads... so throw in a angus beef burger now and then. :)

[JustinKScott]

Thanks for the feedback!!

> no one here is just making stuff up when they say that you'll need to do a daily water change

Not saying you are! I have been doing daily wc; but am confused why I must do so. My water params are good to go w/o it?

>If you have a smaller tank

I do have a 10 which is cycled and was his home for a while. Right now it qt for angel parents until I fix the leak in their tank. I was planning on leaving him there until I had more fish. I'll move him back asap.


> adding your current discus to the big tank after QT without him getting picked on.

That's what I've been worried about. How do I solve that?

>You don't have any plants that really demand CO2 right now

Pix a little out of date. More plants have been added. Still, I could leave it off, but at 3w/g I think I'd just be inviting algae or turning down the light to a plant death march.


> make the extra commitment to keeping the tank sparkling clean.

Sounds good.


> noticed that you're running a power head in the tank.

Pix out of date. Needed for the 180g; removed in the 80g. No water mover anymore.


>Your pH is fine from the tap, so don't worry about dropping the CO2 for now.

Good to know

>To find good discus, just head to the sponsor section of the forums.

Will do!

[strawberryblonde]

Hi again! =)

There are lots of theories on why discus need the fresh clean water every day, but no one has actually come up with one definitive answer. The only thing I can tell you is that discus get sick and/or stunted in size if they don't get their water. Once my discus hit 5" I actually felt comfortable skipping a day every now and then. Not often, but heck, there are just days where either I can't or do NOT feel like sucking 75 gallons of water out of my tank. I just check the parameters on that day and so long as all is well and the nitrates are nice and low, I skip it. Maybe once a week, no more than that.

Hmmm, 3w per gallon should be ok for controlling algae. It's one of those things where you just have to find the balance. You might be able to get away with fewer hours of light in order to control algae. Do you have plants now that need the intense light and the CO2? I stuck with anubias, java fern and swords and dwarf sag during grow out period and they all did fine without a whole lot of ferts, light and CO2. I had to lose my cabomba and vals because the constant water changes just tangled them up and made a big mess in the back of the tank. I'll add those back in once my discus are adults and don't need the daily water changes. In the meantime I use lots of interesting driftwood to fill out the tank and add some personality. It's easy to pull out, scrub and plop back in.

When I did my daily cleanings I vacuumed really well on all the bare (substrate only) areas, then gently siphoned around the plants in order to remove the mulm from the top. Then, once every 2 weeks I stirred up the substrate around the plants and siphoned well.

Oh thank goodness you don't have the powerhead running full blast anymore. LOL That was the part that worried me the most. Discus get all stressed out at strong water currents, though they seem to handle gentler powerheads just fine. Mine actually enjoy swimming into currents so long as they're not too strong.

If you can pick up a cheap 20 gallon as a QT for your current discus he'd be really happy in there. As far as adding him to the rest of the group when it's time, well, there's just no easy way to do it. Just put him in after a big water change and at night when the lights are off so they all have 12 hours or so to realize that there's a new buddy in the tank. Sleep time is great for that. It also helps if he's just a bit bigger than his new tankmates. They'll be less likely to pick on him. I wouldn't worry too much about it going the other way. He'll be too shocked at finding a group of discus for him to pick on them.

[ankor]

I used to have just one discus and a few tetras in 20g tank. no probs
You won't stunt it if don't neglect it. The rules are: for faster grows feed more, clean more etc.
This is what I would do:
Move fish to a smaller tank
No plants
No light, the room light is enough. Or if you want to see the fish- get a strip of LEDs, or something else cheap to run
7.5ph water is good. Age water before WC and add Prime
Everyday (or every next day) in the evening collect the dirt on the bottom replacing 5-10% of water. Wipe the bottom and sides of the tank with paper towel weekly
Feed with worms/dry food in the morning before you leave the house
Feed dry food 2 times with auto-feeder during the day
Feed beefheart before the evening tank cleaning
Now, don't allow to nitrates to be more then 40ppm (20ppm is better, but will require more WC). Do 50% WC, then test water daily for nitrates, as soon as its level hits 40ppm (20ppm, you choose) do another 50%. Keeping the feeding amount steady, very soon you'll work out the number of days between WCs and won't need constant testing.
Keep to the schedule and the fish will response with a good growth. Remember changes in the schedule or water parameters are bad and will stress the fish. Stick to the same daily routine. Bigger fish will have bigger stomach and you'll be able to cut the number of feedings. When it reaches 5-6”, it's the time to move it to display tank with plants, light, CO2 etc