View Full Version : New discus owner in need of help
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 02:23 PM
Recently bought 2 discus for my 55 gallon and very excited. Have a buddy who wants to sell me another one for a real good price. First off it's bigger than my 2 juvies, and I won't be buying another 2 for a month or so. Just haven't found any I like. Would adding a slightly bigger and having 3 be bad idea. My thinking is the bigger one wouldn't feel threatened by the smaller 2 so he wouldn't bully them. Thanks in advance.
Bill63SG
07-10-2011, 02:32 PM
Adding in discus piece-meal with out quarantining them is a recipe for disaster.I've also found when your keeping less then five,ther will always be a bully,and not enough other discus to spread it around.The bigger one not feeling threatened and not picking on the little ones?That's not how it was on my play-ground lol.
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 02:40 PM
I realize that but I have a ton of driftwood and my buddy wouldn't sell me an unhealthy discus he has had it for a few months. But could this work.
DonMD
07-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Sure, it could work. And sure, it might not work at all. All the advice here on this forum is based on years of experience. Quarantine your fish. Avoid small groups, unless you have a mating pair. Do lots of water changes. But whatever advice someone gives you, someone else may say the opposite.
There's only one way for you to find out! Good luck.
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 03:03 PM
Okeey dokey thanks I'll try it and see what happens.
manitu
07-10-2011, 03:31 PM
Okeey dokey thanks I'll try it and see what happens.
bad idea as its relevant if youre buddy had it for a month or 2 years never just add fish from a different source you are asking for trouble here
QT is a musst !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BETTER SAVE THAN SORRY
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 03:52 PM
Enlighten me on quarteening them I'm very curious why one would qt a healthy fish? I thought qt was mainly for fish u couldnt be certain it was healthy and disease free. And I only have 2 tanks a 55 gallon and 29 gallon planted shrimp only tank. What's the practical way of qting fish
ShinShin
07-10-2011, 04:20 PM
A really bad idea. The larger fish will aggresively dominate the 2 younger fish possibly causing stress related disease/death. All the driftwood in the world will not make a difference. It is a total myth that rearranging or adding structure peices to a tank will elimenate discus aggression. Your 2 smaller fish will suffer and never reach their full potential. This will most likely happen to the weaker of the 2 discus you have right now anyway. 2 small discus is never a good idea, as is 3. 5-6 would be a minimum number in my experience. Buyin 2 here, 1 there, and 2 more later on is asking for possible complications. One is better off saving their money and buying 5-6 all at once from the same place. Trust that info.
As far as QT, a perfectly healthy looking discus may not be perfectly healthy or may be a carrier of a disease. Read up on qt practices of experienced discus keepers and follow suit for a better discus experience.
Mat
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 04:29 PM
Well I should have went with my gut instinct to just try it and see what happens. Fish don't read the books. Also I was referring to visual barriers with the driftwood worse comes to worse I'll buy a divider or I will sell it and get a few smaller ones. I have been keeping fish for 10 years and have had all sorts of combos that shouldn't work according to the books thanks for the advice though.
ShinShin
07-10-2011, 04:37 PM
Nothing I have told you came from a book. It came from years of experience. Remember one thing about gut feelings: We only remember the gut feelings that were right, never the many that were wrong.
Mat
Bill63SG
07-10-2011, 04:44 PM
Good luck!
Okeey dokey thanks I'll try it and see what happens.
post any problems in the Disease/Medication section.. hope you are right and the others here are wrong..
Trashcore
07-10-2011, 06:55 PM
Turns out my buddy is terrible at size he is just a hair bigger than my red turquoise and he is getting along great! Thanks for the wonderful comment about the disease section. My buddy works at my Lfs I think I should be set.
ShinShin
07-10-2011, 07:46 PM
LOL. You asked for advice. Experienced discus keepers have told you their experience which is totally opposite of what you WANT to do, so you are going to go with your "gut" feeling which you state you should have done in the first place because fish don't read books.
Your attitude and inexperience will cause you much trouble and money, but it is your time and money. I totally understood your "visuals" concept. It won't work. The discus won't harrass the others because they feel intimidated, the larger, stronger will bully to show dominance. It is inherent and totally unavoidable in this situation. That is what discus do.
Good luck.
Discus-Hans
07-10-2011, 09:24 PM
LOL. You asked for advice. Experienced discus keepers have told you their experience which is totally opposite of what you WANT to do, so you are going to go with your "gut" feeling which you state you should have done in the first place because fish don't read books.
Your attitude and inexperience will cause you much trouble and money, but it is your time and money. I totally understood your "visuals" concept. It won't work. The discus won't harrass the others because they feel intimidated, the larger, stronger will bully to show dominance. It is inherent and totally unavoidable in this situation. That is what discus do.
Good luck.
Little side not here:
It's a lot cheaper to learn from mistakes other people made before you, as creating your own, good luck,
Hans
Do u think the indians would have thought it was a good idea ti qt the europeans with their small pox
xoxpebblesxox
07-11-2011, 04:36 AM
LOL. You asked for advice. Experienced discus keepers have told you their experience which is totally opposite of what you WANT to do, so you are going to go with your "gut" feeling which you state you should have done in the first place because fish don't read books.
Your attitude and inexperience will cause you much trouble and money, but it is your time and money. I totally understood your "visuals" concept. It won't work. The discus won't harrass the others because they feel intimidated, the larger, stronger will bully to show dominance. It is inherent and totally unavoidable in this situation. That is what discus do.
Good luck.
well said! couldn't believe my eyes when reading this! dont ask for help and advice if you are going to ignore every piece of advice given to you! I am new to keeping discus and i have found that the help and advice people offer is nearly always right... if i have problems or doubts i always check on here and the experienced owners are always a huge help! my advice to you would be stop being so stubborn and listen to what every other discus keeper is warning you of in this thread!
good luck
gerrard00
07-11-2011, 09:38 AM
LOL. You asked for advice. Experienced discus keepers have told you their experience which is totally opposite of what you WANT to do, so you are going to go with your "gut" feeling which you state you should have done in the first place because fish don't read books.
Your attitude and inexperience will cause you much trouble and money, but it is your time and money. I totally understood your "visuals" concept. It won't work. The discus won't harass the others because they feel intimidated, the larger, stronger will bully to show dominance. It is inherent and totally unavoidable in this situation. That is what discus do.
Good luck.
op: Hey guys, can I get some advice?
forum: Sure. Here's what you need to know to avoid both you and your fish suffering.
op: Who asked you anyway?
Good luck OP!
I hate it when fish are mishandled by people who won't listen to the experienced veterans from whom they have solicited advice. I don't much care about the waste of time and money to the human. I do care about the fish who will be badly affected.
Trashcore
07-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Well I bought 2 more so now I have 5. Everyone can calm down a tad I always avoid forums because of the attitude you stumble upon I thought maybe this one would be different. I only asked for advise because I was a little bit concerned with my friends ideas because everything online said different. Not to argue more but I find it interesting that keeping 3 is a bad idea because of aggression. But then if u read further they state there will always be aggression??? So my not just have 3. I get that having more spreads the aggression out but then don't u just have a bunch of pissed off fish?
Disgirl
07-11-2011, 04:24 PM
TC,did you put the 2 new discus right in with the other 3 yet?
Barb
scottthomas
07-11-2011, 04:24 PM
I get that having more spreads the aggression out but then don't u just have a bunch of pissed off fish?
No. You have a fish tank where one fish is NOT continuosly being picked on by another two or three fish. To "Spread out aggression" means less aggression per fish.
PS. People were being friendly and helpful by trying to answer your question but you didnt like the answer. If you ask for advice here you will usually get it from people who have experience with discus for many years. Good luck. Sounds like you have a nice bunch now.
strawberryblonde
07-11-2011, 04:30 PM
No, not a bunch of pissed off fish, you have a group of social fish who will hang nicely together and interact as a group. The bullying behavior is inevitable with discus. By nature one is the accepted leader. He makes the decisions on where to eat, what to eat, when to flee and where to hide in order to preserve the health and safety of the group as a whole.
The bullying you see in your tank is the result of having more than one fish who wants to be the boss. They fight it out for top spot, and then the losing fish fight it out for second place, third place, etc. With fewer than 5-6 discus in a group you are going to have CONSTANT fighting amongst the losing fish. They will choose the weakest one and both the alpha fish and the second in command will then bully that fish since it's instinct to constantly reinforce the pecking order.
With more fish in the tank the top dog will nudge the second and sometimes third place guys, who will then turn around and look for lower guys to nudge. The nice part is that there's more than one little guy to nudge so none get bumped and nudged so much that they get sick, stop eating and die.
The advice you got here is sound advice. When it comes to QT procedures, which are no longer an option for your tank, the whole point is to observe the QT fish for any pathogens they might be carrying which could sicken the rest of your tank. In addition, your current occupants of the main tank may be immune to bacteria or other pathogens in their tank/water that the new fish will be susceptible to.
When QT'ing, you first observe for at least a week, then add a small amount of the main tank water to the QT tank and observe some more for illnesses or reactions. If no reaction, you add a larger amount of the main tank water and observe again. If illnesses do crop up, you know what's causing it...the pathogens from the main tank and you then treat both tanks and check for healthiness again before adding your new QT'd fish to the main tank.
It's not an exact science and sometimes, no matter how carefully you observe and treat, the new fish, or the older fish, will get sick when they are introduced to each other. But with QT you greatly reduce the possibility of passing illnesses to each other.
As far as "attitude" on this forum, I don't see it as attitude! I was brand new to discus back in February. I found this forum and walked in with preconceived ideas (thanks to a background in fish keeping). I thought maybe I knew better than the others here, but as I read and read and listened (check out the disease section for an eye opening experience), I understood that the advice was given generously and was from best practices and lots of personal experiences.
I took the advice to heart, ordered my discus from a trusted sponsor, prepared my tank properly and by golly, 3 months after adding my new discus, I have a tank full of HUGE gorgeous fish who have never been sick.
So take from this thread what you think is best for you, but understand that people here are only trying to help you avoid the problems that land a lot of people in the disease section.
AKRON AWOL
07-11-2011, 06:17 PM
U cant fix stupid
lol! that got me laughing....and i agree with strawberryblonde....i came to this site looking for answers and found them. why? because i came with an open mind and genuine intrest in what other seasoned experts had to say...now i got a great tank set up with a lot of awesome fish :D hopefully that will still be the case in 3 months :)
strawberryblonde
07-11-2011, 06:27 PM
hopefully that will still be the case in 3 months :)
It will! Just keep up with the clean water daily and feed, feed, feed and they'll amaze you. I still stare in awe at my big mama fish. She doesn't have her full adult colors yet and she's already well over 6" and heading for 7"! Not to say that all fish get to be so big so fast...after all, my smallest one from that same purchase is only 4 1/2", but he's SO round and pretty that I don't pay any attention to his miniature size. LOL
Trashcore
07-11-2011, 07:11 PM
Thnks for the help. Sry for being a little abrasive yesterday was frustrated cause It was really hot and humid and I was trying to figure out what I got my self into lol. As of now the 2 newcomers were not welcomed warmly currently swimming at the top of the tank sulking. All and I did good all my disks are locally raised and I got a blue diamond, 3 pigeon bloods, and a red turq for 120. Found out the discus my Lfs gets the qt for 2 weeks before selling. Kinda nice to know.
mmorris
07-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Found out the discus my Lfs gets the qt for 2 weeks before selling. Kinda nice to know.
Does the lfs isolate the new arrivals, with absolutely no sharing of hoses, nets, etc? Are the discus on a separate filtration system? It would be quite surprising if they were strictly isolated, and if they don't, it isn't a quarantine.
Trashcore
07-11-2011, 07:30 PM
They showed me the set up not sure about the nets but the fish department manager had kept discus for 15 years and would not sell a fish unless he is 110 percent sure.
Thnks for the help. Sry for being a little abrasive yesterday was frustrated cause It was really hot and humid and I was trying to figure out what I got my self into lol. As of now the 2 newcomers were not welcomed warmly currently swimming at the top of the tank sulking..
pfffft!!!
hot?! try being in TEXAS! LOL
it can take a couple of weeks for fish to fit in .. younger ones are more aggressive.. ihmo
Trashcore
07-11-2011, 07:38 PM
Being from Michigan hot weather boils my blood and be come very irritable lol. Texas would ruin me.
Bill63SG
07-11-2011, 08:03 PM
it can take a couple of weeks for fish to fit in .. younger ones are more aggressive.. ihmo
+1
mmorris
07-11-2011, 10:01 PM
Isn't Texas a dry heat, as compared to Michigan? I don't know; I've never been to Texas.
Isn't Texas a dry heat, as compared to Michigan? I don't know; I've never been to Texas.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*t!!! HUMIDITY!! thank you very much! :(
scottthomas
07-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Sometimes it helps to leave lights off for a day when introducing new fish. I'm not sure why this works, but it has for me in the past.
strawberryblonde
07-11-2011, 10:40 PM
Isn't Texas a dry heat, as compared to Michigan? I don't know; I've never been to Texas.
Oy, I lived in Texas for 6 of the longest, hottest, moistest months of my life...I sweat just thinking about it. LOL
Now the high plains desert in Idaho, on the other hand, is NEVER humid and there's always a breeze blowing off the mountains. We hit the high 90's today and it felt like 80. <ducking and running away from Skip now>
Trashcore
07-11-2011, 10:43 PM
It wouldn't be so bad if my apartment had flow lol I need to add some powerheads. But this last winter it was like 15 everyday and now it's 87 and humid alot for the body to adjust to.
Oy, I lived in Texas for 6 of the longest, hottest, moistest months of my life...I sweat just thinking about it. LOL
Now the high plains desert in Idaho, on the other hand, is NEVER humid and there's always a breeze blowing off the mountains. We hit the high 90's today and it felt like 80. <ducking and running away from Skip now>
what?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
strawberryblonde
07-12-2011, 02:25 AM
Let me speak very s l o w l y for ya Skip.
I say, in Idaho it's nice and dry year round and even though the temps nearly hit 100 today, it only felt like 80 degrees outside with a nice cool breeze blowing down from the mountains and right into my lush green backyard where I was sitting and sipping lemonade. =)
Cambik
07-12-2011, 10:39 AM
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
+1 on the GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Anywhoo back to discus related stuff right now I'm feeding frozen blood worms and ON prime reef should I be feeding beef heart or is there something else I should feed?
stop feeding frozen bloodworms.. get some ON beef heart frozen cubes to get them interested in it.. then you can turn around and make your own..
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 02:16 PM
What's wrong with frozen blood worms?
very little nutrition but they love em.. kind of like feeding them candy.. they are good every once in awhile but should not be part of everyday diet..
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 02:26 PM
Well I do have some blackworms from my Lfs but I stopped feeding when I found out that they could pass parasites. Don't wanna do beef could I do brineshrimp or mysis?
i do all of them.. except bloodworms.. (once every couple of weeks)
live blackworms/brine.. all kind of flakes.. pellets.. frozen, mysis, brine, beefheart, seafood mix.. the more variety the better
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 02:29 PM
So I should do live blackworms then?
i rinse mine everyday.. but only keep enough for a week.. then i buy a new batch on the day they arrive at LFS... i buy a gallon of RO water AND keep them in a BLACK WORM KEEPER>> i have no problems other then the fish want them EVERYDAY, EVERYMEAL :)
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 02:42 PM
What does rinsing do and what's a blackworm keeper. Can I just keep them in a bag. How do u rinse them?
http://www.aquaticfoods.com/blackwormcare.html
rinsing keeps the worms from sitting in the poo and nasty water.. read this link
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 02:57 PM
Do discus love mysis?
mine do.. but they like to eat the bodies and leave all the shells it makes a mess.. BUT my larger fish should be able to eat them whole
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 03:11 PM
So should I do the beef heart or brine shrimp. I have heard beef heart destroys water quality only concern.
keep it simple.. use what is available to you.. i like brine.. but it lacks the protien, when frozen.. beefheart causes problems if you OVER FEED THEM and then let it rot in the water.. it should be siphoned up after the meal.. or feed enough that they eat all in one sitting
Ask about blackworms to some of the world renowned discus experts and they will most likely tell you not to feed live blackworms. But like someone pointed out here, some never listen to good advises from people with years of experiences. Myself included, of course.
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 04:10 PM
K no blackworms. So beef heart or brine shrimp
here you will get people that have raised discus on live blackworms no problems.. other will tell you different. i think on this one. you have find out what works for you...
Also, make sure to get a lot of good info from many different sources.
Trashcore
07-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Thanks guys u have been great help.
Bill63SG
07-12-2011, 08:11 PM
With the worm keepers and daily rinsing,I can keep'em alive from 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.I start out with 1lb.
Gillmann
07-12-2011, 08:48 PM
Little side not here:
It's a lot cheaper to learn from mistakes other people made before you, as creating your own, good luck,
Hans
Amen to that!!
decula
07-12-2011, 10:53 PM
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Ya think you got it bad Skip? Hot air rises - so all that hot air outta Texas ....
makes for good popcorn popping
<evil snicker>
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