Stendker hatchery pics

[Sean Buehrle]

Does anyone know the link to the old pics of the stendker hatchery? I remember seeing them some years back but cant find them anymore.

Please provide a link if possible.

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[vss]

you can check the website of The Royale Discus. it's stendker's previous distributor in Italy and they pick up fish from Stendker's facility once in a while and have a lot of pictures taken there during the road trips.

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it


some links:

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=257&Itemid=480

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=151&Itemid=365

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=148&Itemid=360

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=271&Itemid=494

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=37

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=256&Itemid=479

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=255&Itemid=478

HTH,
Xiaofei :)

[Skip]

john nic showed me a powerpoint with tons of pics from german fish house.. it was awesome!!

[ockyra215]

Nice pics gotta love the Stendker hatchery!

[Sean Buehrle]

Thanks alot.


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[ZX10R]

Wish I would of known this 9 months ago when I was over in Italy would of been sweet if they would of let me take a tour.

[Elite Aquaria]

Thanks for the photos...that is an amazing setup

[CajunAg]

you can check the website of The Royale Discus. it's stendker's previous distributor in Italy and they pick up fish from Stendker's facility once in a while and have a lot of pictures taken there during the road trips.

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it


some links:

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=257&Itemid=480

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=151&Itemid=365

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=148&Itemid=360

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=271&Itemid=494

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=37

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=256&Itemid=479

http://www.theroyaldiscus.it/trd/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=255&Itemid=478

HTH,
Xiaofei :)

Great links!

[Gillmann]

+1 !!

[raidendex]

Makes me sad seeing all those fish stuffed into the tanks like that with barely any room to swim =\

[John_Nicholson]

Makes me sad seeing all those fish stuffed into the tanks like that with barely any room to swim =\

LOL...Lord help me...

-john

[Discus-Hans]

LOL...Lord help me...

-john

John,

you can do it, just count till 10 and go to the next subject lol lol

Hans

[raidendex]

I'm sure you would feel perfectly alright in a small room with 50 other people for a few months :)

[John_Nicholson]

I'm sure you would feel perfectly alright in a small room with 50 other people for a few months :)

I probably would not like it but then again I don't have a brain the size of a pencil lead......

I promised Al that I would be a good boy so I am trying to stick to that but one of my pet peeves is when someone tries to put human thoughts/feeling on animals. They are only concerned about eating, spawning, and not becoming food. That is it. Those fish are perfectly fine.

-john

[terps]

Makes me sad seeing all those fish stuffed into the tanks like that with barely any room to swim =\

I agree. It's cruel. :angry:

[DLock3d]

Guys, two things. I guarantee those fish are treated great. As many of us have realized we feed our fish better than we feed ourselves. I'm sure Stendker takes pretty good care of the water quality and diet. Let's not forget Discus are also schooling fish. Having said that, I'm sure they feel much safer in tight knit groups. But if the care for those fish was anything less than phenomenal, the Stendker brothers would not be able to be so successful. I seriously doubt any of those fish are unhappy, unhappy fish lead to sick fish. I just don't see that as the case with Stendkers of my own.

[John_Nicholson]

They are not unhappy. The trouble comes from the fact that people complain about things they know nothing about. Aggression/stress goes down as the number of fish goes up. As long as there is enough food and the water remains clean you cannot overcrowd them enough. The more crowded the tank the more uniform in size, shape, development the fish will be. Most people have 6 or 8 fish in a tank, they have never raised out large numbers of quality fish. They have no clue what it takes to raise large numbers of quality fish. I think it is great when people have an opinion I just wish that they would make it an educated opinion.

-john

[Skip]

i don't care what stendker does with their fish.. apprently it works.. :)

ja wohl!!

[roundfishross]

he he he ta he he!

[terps]

They are not unhappy. The trouble comes from the fact that people complain about things they know nothing about. Aggression/stress goes down as the number of fish goes up. As long as there is enough food and the water remains clean you cannot overcrowd them enough. The more crowded the tank the more uniform in size, shape, development the fish will be. Most people have 6 or 8 fish in a tank, they have never raised out large numbers of quality fish. They have no clue what it takes to raise large numbers of quality fish. I think it is great when people have an opinion I just wish that they would make it an educated opinion.

-john

It's wrong and it's cruel. It's called over production without enough room. Cruel, cruel, cruel.

[John_Nicholson]

i don't care what stendker does with their fish.. apprently it works.. :)

Jawahol!!

That is one of the few smart things that I have "heard" Skip post.....LOL.



Ok folks lets look at this in a scientific manner. How would you measure a fishes "happiness". It really bothers me to say happiness because that is a human emotion that can't be measured in the animal world...so can we sub in health? I would think so. An fish that is stressed and poorly cared for would surely be of poor health. Lets see what are Stendkers known for......Oh I know for being extremely healthy, large, sturdy, spawning machines. As the old saying goes the proof is in the pudding.....

If you disagree please design an experiment and try to prove your hypothesis. I feel that Stendker has already proven mine.

-john

[ZX10R]

The more crowded the tank the more uniform in size, shape, development the fish will be.

-john

Sounds like a good excuse to tell the wife tonight that I need to buy more fish :D

[Skip]

Settle down John.. Those pics jus go against what everybody preachs here in sd... So it can be a little startling to see that the first time...
I think I overheard grandpa stendker say. "do as I say, not as I do"... But in german..
ja wohl

[John_Nicholson]

Sounds like a good excuse to tell the wife tonight that I need to buy more fish :D

Glad I could help...LOL.

-john

[DLock3d]

It's wrong and it's cruel. It's called over production without enough room. Cruel, cruel, cruel.

Are you even reading the posts made? Discus enjoy this environment. The proof is in the fish they produce.

[terps]

Are you even reading the posts made? Discus enjoy this environment. The proof is in the fish they produce.

That's wrong and cruel. If you can't see that, there's no helping you or John. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Sean Buehrle]

I'm sure you would feel perfectly alright in a small room with 50 other people for a few months :)

I would love to be shoulder to shoulder with 50 chicks in any room.


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[Skip]

I would love to be shoulder to shoulder with 50 chicks in any room.




50 chick, 1 room :( i would be scared stiff!

[Cambik]

50 chick, 1 room :( i would be scared stiff!

and I am sure in more than one way.

[Sean Buehrle]

I take any negativity in this thread with a grain of salt. And i will remind anyone not happy with any of these pics that there are organisations that frown upon your keeping of a fish in your roomy tank. They think you are a terrible person. So dont throw stones.
I remember the first time i seen the stendker hatchery pictures. I was in awe of all those great fish. I mean can you imagine all the time and work that goes into producing that many fish?
I would love to walk thru there with a few grand to spend.
And im sure there are alot of suprises that nobody knows about in there, you could probably learn alot.
I would love to spend a couple days in there.
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[Skip]

i won the lottery!! i would SET ALL THEM DISCUS FREE!!!!!!!!!!

Into MY TANKS!!!

[John_Nicholson]

That's wrong and cruel. If you can't see that, there's no helping you or John. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Quit being emotional and offer some proof of your weak opinion...any proof....I beg you.

-john

[chaoslite]

I probably would not like it but then again I don't have a brain the size of a pencil lead......

I promised Al that I would be a good boy so I am trying to stick to that but one of my pet peeves is when someone tries to put human thoughts/feeling on animals. They are only concerned about eating, spawning, and not becoming food. That is it. Those fish are perfectly fine.

-john

ROFLMAO

[chaoslite]

50 chick, 1 room :( i would be scared stiff!

See Skip, I knew you were a smart man.

Mishka

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Stendker stocks at a relatively light load in comparison to some commercial aquaculture ventures. If you think this is cruel, then Lord help you if you ever walked into a high density tilapia facility. Think of it this way....when your discus arent happy, do they eat? Do they come to the front of the glass begging for food? Do they have those bright colors? NO. They hide, turn dark, clamp fins, etc. I bet he could double his stocking densities and everyone would still be happy (assuming water quality remains high). I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I only see ways they could improve their system design to increase stocking, LOL!

-Ryan

[Sean Buehrle]

LOL

Dang Ive been causing alot of grief for hans lately. I was the one who sent the kid hans's way last week and now I go and start this off. Sorry pal :)




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[John_Nicholson]

Don't say your sorry...This has given me something to do, and besides Hans doesn't mind...He's is at the beach...LOL

-john


LOL

Dang Ive been causing alot of grief for hans lately. I was the one who sent the kid hans's way last week and now I go and start this off. Sorry pal :)




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[Sean Buehrle]

Don't say your sorry...This has given me something to do, and besides Hans doesn't mind...He's is at the beach...LOL

-john

Yeah really, im feeling sorry for a guy laying on a beach somewhere, LOL


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[Cevoe]

They are not unhappy. The trouble comes from the fact that people complain about things they know nothing about. Aggression/stress goes down as the number of fish goes up. As long as there is enough food and the water remains clean you cannot overcrowd them enough. The more crowded the tank the more uniform in size, shape, development the fish will be. Most people have 6 or 8 fish in a tank, they have never raised out large numbers of quality fish. They have no clue what it takes to raise large numbers of quality fish. I think it is great when people have an opinion I just wish that they would make it an educated opinion.

-john

John,
I was recently talking with somebody about increased quantities when raising grow-outs.
Let's say a 55 or 75 gallon tank starting with 2-1/2" discus or even fry.
At what size do you start splitting them and what is the plan after they reach that size?
I have noticed the inconsistencies in sizes with a group of eight in a 55 and currently with a group of ten in a 55.
The water changes and feedings will always be there so why not pack them in.
I would like to hear your methods if you get a chance. (And anybody else's methods too)
Thanks

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

John,
I was recently talking with somebody about increased quantities when raising grow-outs.
Let's say a 55 or 75 gallon tank starting with 2-1/2" discus or even fry.
At what size do you start splitting them and what is the plan after they reach that size?
I have noticed the inconsistencies in sizes with a group of eight in a 55 and currently with a group of ten in a 55.
The water changes and feedings will always be there so why not pack them in.
I would like to hear your methods if you get a chance. (And anybody else's methods too)
Thanks

This been discussed several times over the years, but more or less what's physically possible when growing out discus is being able to maintain water quality conditions (TAN, DO, TSS, etc). Maintaining a heavy stocking density seems to highly benefit them during growout. Question being, what is that upper threshold for stocking densities for discus?? Being able to maintain a low tolerable TAN (total ammonia nitrogen) level, along with maintaining the DO levels in the system (and having an efficient means for solids removal) is critical when stocking heavily like that. Unfortunately we dont know what's their maximum tolerable TAN levels are, but you can guess they're pretty low. And with the amount of protein in the feed, a decent size biofilter and system flow would be required to keep everything in check. You could run some theoretical numbers to determine all of the above, but it would be just theory since no one has tried to operate under a "maximum" load for discus. Though it would be interesting to find out....

-Ryan

[DLock3d]

Quit being emotional and offer some proof of your weak opinion...any proof....I beg you.

-john

+1 The other posts about fish growing out better in higher stocked tanks is very interesting to me. One thing that I notice with larger groups is that they eat much more aggressively. I'm sure this is one item that factors in.

[roundfishross]

ime they tend to jump on and devour the food more readliy when the stocking density is higher

[Apistomaster]

John and Ryan are so correct.
Commercial fish production is, out of necessity, very different than how a hobbyist who does not breed Discus usually goes about it.
The results show what is possible and practical.
Those who think it is cruel know next to nothing about fish(let alone domestic Discus production) and are anthropomorphizing the subject.
I am not able to provide the advanced facilities nor amount of work it takes now, but I know from experience I can easily raise 50 Discus fry to about 2-1/2 inches in a 40 gal breeder if I pour enough effort into it because I have done many, many times. Domestic Discus are just a pretty commodity to me. I am not emotionally attached to my fish. It is not in my best interest when commercially producing Discus to do anything which delays me from being able to raise quality fish and get them out the door as soon as I can.
Everyone who said keeping Discus grow outs in crowded but otherwise perfectly healthy conditions produces more even growth through a reduction of intraspecific aggression are correct. In mega-Discus production facilities even the fry are raised artificially.
It has to be run like any other business or they will go out of business and then my anthropomorphic friends, you would not have such easy access to affordable fine pet Discus for your tank(s). And to whom it may apply, I suggest as has already been said here, "Do as I say; not as I do." Best you stick close to the widely recommended ten gallons per Discus.

[C3H6O3]

Apistomaster: whooot!!! That says it all. Job well done. :0)

[pcsb23]

I have been to the Stendker facility. It is really quite an amazing experience if you are into discus. I would never advise any newcomer to the hobby to try and keep discus at the stocking density Jorg & Volker do, in fact I wouldn't advise many so called "experienced" keepers to either! Their filtration systems are massive, and very simple. They use a continual drip type system to replenish water, about 10% per day, and they use stainless steel coils fed from a boiler to heat the water.

There is also a lot of algae on the tanks, green algae. They have found that this improves water quality so they leave it. Jorg told me the nitrate levels were quite high in the main stock systems, they are lower in the breeding ones.

To those that believe this to be somehow cruel, well you can rest assured. It is not cruel, John, Ryan and Larry have given excellent explanations as to why so I will not add any more other than I have never seen a tilapia fish farm, but have seen many trout and salmon fish farms, they all are commercial operations with strict animal health governance. Stressed fish become weaker fish become dead fish. This is bad for business! None of the Stendker fish showed any sign of illness or stress, all fed ravenously too.

[bigfish]

Outstanding Pics, of those Stendkers, many thanks for posting. Regards.......Ben.

[John_Nicholson]

John,
I was recently talking with somebody about increased quantities when raising grow-outs.
Let's say a 55 or 75 gallon tank starting with 2-1/2" discus or even fry.
At what size do you start splitting them and what is the plan after they reach that size?
I have noticed the inconsistencies in sizes with a group of eight in a 55 and currently with a group of ten in a 55.
The water changes and feedings will always be there so why not pack them in.
I would like to hear your methods if you get a chance. (And anybody else's methods too)
Thanks

It is a good question. I have had as many as 200 2 inch fish in a 75 gallon tank. I feed all of my tanks twice a day. When a tank is crowded like that I would have 4 sponge filters running, change 50% to 75% of the water twice a day, and have my RO waste water running though the tanks. Almost forgot to mention that I probably had 2 inches of duck weed floating on top and plenty of algae in the tanks. I clean the front of my tanks when I start having issues seeing the fish. I clean the rest of the tanks when I have a fish club having a meeting at the fish house so probably 2 times a year or so.

-john

[Cevoe]

Some real good information there, John. (Ditto Ryan, Paul & Apisto)
Taking the (200) 2" in a 75 gallon tank as an example, when do you start the next step and what would that step be?
Two of you both made a point of the green algae, which is interesting.
Looking forward to reading more.

[jcardona1]

I can't help but to facepalm when people try to humanize animals, especially a fish. SMH

On topic, those pics were awesome, hadn't seen those before!

[John_Nicholson]

Some real good information there, John. (Ditto Ryan, Paul & Apisto)
Taking the (200) 2" in a 75 gallon tank as an example, when do you start the next step and what would that step be?
Two of you both made a point of the green algae, which is interesting.
Looking forward to reading more.

Well I normally sale more of my fish small. I start selling them at 1 inch. If things go right I keep the fish in the tank but the numbers drop as people buy them. If I am not selling them for whatever reason they would get split as time and tank space allow.

-john

[Sean Buehrle]

It is a good question. I have had as many as 200 2 inch fish in a 75 gallon tank. I feed all of my tanks twice a day. When a tank is crowded like that I would have 4 sponge filters running, change 50% to 75% of the water twice a day, and have my RO waste water running though the tanks. Almost forgot to mention that I probably had 2 inches of duck weed floating on top and plenty of algae in the tanks. I clean the front of my tanks when I start having issues seeing the fish. I clean the rest of the tanks when I have a fish club having a meeting at the fish house so probably 2 times a year or so.

-john

Wouldnt happen to look like this would it? http://tapatalk.com/mu/4bada7a5-943d-4701.jpg

I know its ugly but theres not a bit of brown algae in there and nitrate doesnt register. There is some hair algae in there but it is slowly being beat out by some sort of nice algae.

I figured what the heck, its gotta be making the water quality better after waterchanges.


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[Lenin]

I have 19 in a 110g, and as soon as they all got together as a group they started acting better, they're in a living room with a lot of traffic and all they do is swim and beg for food. Soon I will have to split a few of them since they're growing but I can definetly see how being in a group helps, same things apply for my tetras.

[Darrell Ward]

Put 50 discus in a 5000 gal. tank. They have 20' of swimming room in 2 directions, and 6' in 2 directions, not counting up or down. What is the very first thing they are going to do? If you said huddle together, congratulations, you win today's trivia question! Everybody else, drain your tanks, and throw your fish out in the yard, because you know nothing about discus. They are SCHOOLING FISH. It's instinctive for them to be in tight groups. It helps protect the group from predators. It ain't cruel. Sermon over, I need a nap! :sleeping3:

[roclement]

Cruelty is buying a guppy at a pet store, giving it to your kid as a pet just to have it die a few days later...cruelty to the child for having a stupid parent! Oh wait! There is a whole pet industry based on this premisse!

A professional breeder raising fish in confined environment in not cruel, what happens with them once they go to some peoples homes is cruel!

Rodrigo

[Cevoe]

This reminds me of the water change hatchery video that made the rounds a few months ago that had people up in arms.
The issue of animal cruelty is a subject near and dear to me these days and I will try to explain without taking this thread too far off track.
We live in the city in a row house which means we have another house plastered right up against our house on two sides.
Obviously you have neighbors right up your ying-yang whether you like it or not and the young couple next to us bought a couple of big terriers about a year ago.
They treat these dogs like they are the Adam and Eve of the canine world and talk about them like they are their kids.
The form of housebreaking they chose was to leave them in the garage, pretty much twenty plus hours a day.
In this garage, which is right up against my postage stamp of a back yard, is where these two dogs eat, crap and pee all day long.
I cannot begin to describe the odor that comes from this garage when they open the door.
The dogs have been to the vet several times for this and that and there is always a reason they are sick.
The reason is the filth growing in there and the stupidity of these people.
I had a civil talk with this guy about crate training them and some tips on housebreaking these animals. We even offered to let them out during the day since there is usually someone home at my house.
He told me that crate training was too cruel and he couldn't do that to them. He also doesn't want them outside too much because someone might steal these 90 lb. crapping machines.
Sorry to ramble on like this but it really sticks in my crawl when people treat and regard animals on a human level.
I'm going to need a crow bar to feed the next group of grow-outs I start, by the way.

[Darrell Ward]

Chris, It's sad, but stupid people seem to far outnumber reasonable people these days. Common sense seems to be rapidly disappearing. In another 100 years, they may not be any reasonable people left in the gene pool. Glad I won't be around to witness it.

[strawberryblonde]

I dunno, I'm just not seeing the cruelty in those pics. I see a LOT of fish in each tank, with plenty of crystal clear water. I don't see sick, wasted, stunted fish anywhere, just fat, healthy fish.

Loved the links BTW! I'm in awe of the Stendkers and the discus they raise. Awesome fish!

[Darrell Ward]

Oh yeah, definitely some of the finest quality domestics around. Multimillion dollar operation for sure.

[roclement]

Chris, It's sad, but stupid people seem to far outnumber reasonable people these days. Common sense seems to be rapidly disappearing. In another 100 years, they may not be any reasonable people left in the gene pool. Glad I won't be around to witness it.

Every time I watch "Idiocracy" I think of this and start believing it more and more...

Rodrigo

[nc0gnet0]

Outstanding pics! What I find most interesting is it at least appears that the stocking density goes up as the fish get progressively larger. The fry and juvies under 2" don't appear to be that crowded.

[zimmjeff]

I need a large net and an unlimited credit card and five min. wow.

[nc0gnet0]

Ok folks lets look at this in a scientific manner. How would you measure a fishes "happiness". It really bothers me to say happiness because that is a human emotion that can't be measured in the animal world...so can we sub in health? I would think so.

While I agree with everything you have said in regards to fish, I am not so sure you can then apply the same logic to all "animals". I do believe the ability to enjoy happiness is an emotion that many higher animals possess.

[Sean Buehrle]

Outstanding pics! What I find most interesting is it at least appears that the stocking density goes up as the fish get progressively larger. The fry and juvies under 2" don't appear to be that crowded.

It also could be a part of the facility that is in the final stages of getting them out of there. Like holding tanks for shipping. They might not even be feeding those fish for a couple days, then out the door.


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