opinions wanted: newbie's first show (part I)

[htlv22003@yahoo.com]

I got my first discus in early may from Hans. It has been over two months now. I learnt a lot through reading and raising. However, I still have a lot of questions. I am going to load a lot of pictures of my discus and tank. Please advice and comment.
1) Tank and maintenance
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Tank size: 38 gallon. I know it is small, but seems Ok for now. Will upgrade later if needed.
Fish: 6 discus, 2 Dwarf Gurami, 2 Glofish, 2 cherry barb, 2 platy, 1 guppy, 3 otos, 1 pleco
Water parameter: soft water, pH 5.5, Temp 86F, wc twice a week, 50% each time. All NH4 and NO2 read 0. NO3 reads 10 ppm
Feed: 2-3 times a day, alternate Reef prime flakes and FD blood worm.
Plant: a variety of plants
Fertilizing: 10 ppm K with each WC, 0.2 ppm Fe daily
Lights; 3*32w CF

Now, my discus.
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Fish #6 Pigeon blood blue from Hans. The bottom of hierarchy, eats well, always get food even chased by others. Good growth. Huge amount of peppering from the day of arrival. I have asked about this here sometime ago and that’s how I learnt the word “peppering”. I am really worried about this. I followed the suggestion I get from here, such as rising the temp, replacing a blue background with a white paper (with my kids’ drawing). However, it has been two months now since the change, nothing changed.
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Fish #5 Pigeon blood from Hans. Second to the bottom of hierarchy. Very quiet. It has peppering too.
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Fish #4 Marlboro red from Hans. Very nice guy. Good growth. One of the biggest in my tank. It seldom bullies others, but never back off when clanged by others. It gets some peppering too.
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Fish #3 Alenquer from Hans. It’s the smallest one in the tank. Eat a lot, but not grow well. He is one of the fighters, chasing other discus while eating. He shows dark color most of time. Only when I come back from work, and his stomach is very likely empty, he shows a light body color with black bars, and that’s when he looks very nice. No peppering.

[htlv22003@yahoo.com]

Please finish reading part II. Questions are there. Please post your comments there. Thanks!

[terps]

Pigeon bloods have peppering. Wait another 2 months and see what they look like as they grow larger. Eventually, you'll need a bigger tank. A 38 gallon will be too small for 6 adult discus. I'd remove your kid's picture and paint the sides of the tank white to help reduce peppering. I wouldn't replace the gravel. I'd lower the temperature back to 82 degrees. Good luck.

[DLock3d]

Peppering also occurs at greater levels with stress. A larger tank would allow your fish for more room to get away from bullies.

[Sean Buehrle]

So whats your waterchange routine?

They would probably fair better in a tank that you could maintain good water quality in.



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[htlv22003@yahoo.com]

Like I said, I did WC twice a week, 50% each time.

[ZX10R]

I have fish from Hans also and two of my fish have a little peppering not to bad but my pigeon has way more peppering then yours pictured above. I have had them for 15 months and in several different setups and the peppering never got any better. Fish has looked the same since the day it came in so not sure what else you can try. I tried blue backgrounds, baby blue backgrounds, white sand nothing helped.

[Sean Buehrle]

Like I said, I did WC twice a week, 50% each time.

Yeah thats next to nothing.

I understand that with a planted tank that the plants are supposed to use up nutrients in the water.

But even so, in a planted tank that small your fish are going to be stressed.

If you go into the planted section of this site youll find people with very big tanks and ill bet that most of them will tell you that your not going to have very much luck with your fish.
With the stock in there and your feeding 3 times a day coupled with only 2 50 percent waterchanges a week your water quality probably has alot to do with it.

Pigeons have peppering, it seems the yellow variety have more. It does get worse with stress but never goes completely away. I seen you posted a pic of an (alanquer)and said it has no peppering which leads me to believe you dont know much about pigeons and are unhappy about the peppering.
Best thing you can do is move them to a bb tank and keep them in good water they are accustomed to. They will grow and hopefully color up for you.
Do you see the stress bars on that alanquer? Well a pigeons stress bars are the peppering, the bars are bred out and thats whats left of them. Less stress equals less noticable peppering.

Your fish know water quality better than any test kit can tell you. Stress bars mean something is wrong.

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[htlv22003@yahoo.com]

Your fish know water quality better than any test kit can tell you. Stress bars mean something is wrong.

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So you do believe that something is wrong with my water and my fish are stressed? How to tell? I am curious, not challenging you.

BTW, if I have to choose between WC daily and peppering, I will choose ....peppering on healthy fish.

[Sean Buehrle]

So you do believe that something is wrong with my water and my fish are stressed? How to tell? I am curious, not challenging you.

BTW, if I have to choose between WC daily and peppering, I will choose ....peppering on healthy fish.

Yes I would say your water is the problem. And that they are in a tank that has alot of disolved organics in it.
Just wverything you are trying to do with that tank is totally a negative when trying to raise a discus.

You have gravel = bad
2 50 % wc a week = bad
38 gal tank = bad

Most people around here spill more water on their floor than you are changing in that tank.

You can challenge all you want but the proof is in the pudding. Its been proven around here for a decade what waterchanges will do for you.

There are several girls around here that are puting an inch a month on their fish with waterchanges.

I myself got sick fish that had at least one type of parasite that were stunted and didnt eat for 4 weeks. Mine were sick and stunted.

You got yours healthy and twice the size at the same time I did and mine are bigger than yours now, that says alot.

Im not cutting you down or trying to insult ya thats not my intention, im just trying to get throught to you what it takes to raise a discus to its full potential.

If you keep on with your routine and the tank they are in you will be back here in a few months with a new post asking if your fish are stunted.

Dont take my word for it, if you ask enough people youll get the answer your looking for, have fun and good luck.
Ps. I think its cool you have your kids disney type background, nothin wrong with that. It would look a lot better with a bare bottom some plants in pots and some big discus.


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[Bill63SG]

Most people around here spill more water on their floor than you are changing in that tank.










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lol.

[Sean Buehrle]

BTW, if I have to choose between WC daily and peppering, I will choose ....peppering on healthy fish.
That statement right there has so many things wrong with it I dont even know where to start and will just leave it alone.






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[ZX10R]

Here are 3 fish of mine from Hans and they are showing there stress bars. Mine show there bars off and on and of course taking pictures of them there bars showed up. I don't believe this means there is a serious problem. And I only do a 50% WC twice a week but I do have a 120 and 92 gallon tank.
Santarem
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price031.jpg
Cobalt
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price026.jpg
Alenquer
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price029.jpg

[htlv22003@yahoo.com]

And I only do a 50% WC twice a week but I do have a 120 and 92 gallon tank.
Alenquer


Is yours planted tank? Your Alenquer looks awesome, and I want mine just like that. However, I think I am far away to that.
BTW, how long do you have it? what's its size at arrivel? Just curious.

OK, I am seriously thinking of increasing wc. I have ordered some wc things, and I will see how far i can go.

[ZX10R]

Is yours planted tank? Your Alenquer looks awesome, and I want mine just like that. However, I think I am far away to that.
BTW, how long do you have it? what's its size at arrivel? Just curious.

OK, I am seriously thinking of increasing wc. I have ordered some wc things, and I will see how far i can go.

Mine is not planted but I have driftwood and pool filter sand in it. I bought my fish at 2" and have had them for 15 months. I bought 8 fish from Hans and four are around 5.5"-6" and the other four are about 4.5"-5". I do a 50% WC every three days but I will say you are going to need to upgrade that 38 gallon tank soon.

[DLock3d]

lol.


Sean, it could be the alcohol. But I love you for that post. HIGH Fing hilarious. Because it's true.