Please critique my stocklist

[STL_Cardinal]

Hi everyone-- first post! I'm fairly new to discus and plants with about a month of keeping discus and six months experience keeping plants. Currently, I feed 3-8x a day with a daily wc of 50%. Could I please get some critiques/comments on my stocklist? I am particularly interested in what you all think of the bio-load on the tank, especially when they all become adults? The distributor that I got them from said I would have to do a minimum of 2WC <20% a week as adults -- does that sound about right?

Fauna:
6 juvenile Stendker Discus (two 3", four 4")
2 juvenile angelfish (I eventually plan to give one to a friend and keep just one)
16 cardinal tetras
20 nerite snails
2 harlequin rasboras
2 BN plecos
1 swordfish
2 platies

Tank Specs:
- 75g, heavily planted
- Rena Xp1, Rena Xp2 cannister filters
- Eco-complete substrate
- 4 T5HO bulbs x 54W (WPG 2.88)
- CO2 reg, tank, and reactor
- UV sterilizer

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration! Looking forward to hearing what you all think...

-Paul

[scottthomas]

Sounds like a nice tank. Pretty crowded for a 76 gal planted tank when all are adults IMO. Just be sure to maintain water quality with lots of water changes. I also overstock, but I do large daily water changes and have semi automated system and bb so not as much labor involved as you may have. Good luck and share some photos please.

[walan20]

WOW, that's ALOT of fish in a 75 gallon!!! But I like it :)

[STL_Cardinal]

Sounds like a nice tank. Pretty crowded for a 76 gal planted tank when all are adults IMO. Just be sure to maintain water quality with lots of water changes. I also overstock, but I do large daily water changes and have semi automated system and bb so not as much labor involved as you may have. Good luck and share some photos please.

Thanks for the comments, Scott. With regards to the labor and frequent WC, I am willing to do the daily 50% wc now, but ultimately would like to scale it back to 50% WC once a week once they all reach adults. Do you (or anyone else) think that will be feasible with my current stock list, or do I need to make some serious decisions on which fish to remove?

Another concern I have is that I never gravel vac because my entire substrate is totally filled with plants. Should I be concerned about the well-being of my fish as far as gradual waste buildup? Or will the plants do a sufficient job in breaking down waste/uneaten food?

BTW, I will post some pictures to show you all what I'm working with here once I've accumulated the proper amount of posts...

Thanks,
Paul

[strawberryblonde]

Is the daily WC you do now keeping the nitrates to a minimum? If it is, then you can get away with not vacuuming the substrate. As adults they won't be eating nearly as much food, so nitrates will be reduced and the plants should be able to keep up.

Here's the thing though, once a week WC's when they are adults may not be enough with the bio-load you have, even when you take the heavy planting into account.

If it was me, I'd test my water several times a week for nitrates as they are growing and adjust either the amount of the current WC, or the frequency of the WC as you start reducing them. I'd also consider losing the rasbora's, at least half of the snails, the swordfish and the platy's.

Swordfish and platy's really aren't good fish at the higher discus temps. It shortens their lifespans. Rasbora's are usually ok, but reducing the bio-load will give you a greater chance of success with growing out your discus. Definitely don't need that many snails in the tank, and they do add wastes.

Your pleco's and the remaining snails should do a fine job of cleaning up any leftover bits of food from the substrate as well as doing some algae control.

I'm not big on UV sterilizers simply because they tend to knock out all sorts of helpful bacteria along with the nasty ones. So long as you are doing daily WC's, it's not really necessary and may, in the long run, compromise the immune systems of your discus. That's entirely your call though since some people love them and swear by them.

[STL_Cardinal]

Hi Toni, thanks for your insight. My nitrate levels are currently less than 5, so I guess that means no vacuuming the substrate for me (yay! I was never good at doing that without siphoning out a bunch of my eco-complete and uprooting plants).

Guess I will part with the rasboras, platy's, and swordfish. (Anyone in the St Louis area is welcome to come by and get them for free as a RAOK, otherwise they go to my friend's tank). These guys were all already there with a ton of other fish I had before I switched to discus. These 5 guys were just too hard to catch so I had given up on catching them.

As far as your views on snails, I know they add waste, but I didn't think they posed that big of a threat to bio-load? These guys are nerite snails and they are all very small. If you could give me some more information or point me in the right direction of how much waste snails add, I'd appreciate it... I will also turn off my sterilizer as my water is always crystal clear and my electric bill is already putting a big dent into my wallet every month. :angry:




Is the daily WC you do now keeping the nitrates to a minimum? If it is, then you can get away with not vacuuming the substrate. As adults they won't be eating nearly as much food, so nitrates will be reduced and the plants should be able to keep up.

Here's the thing though, once a week WC's when they are adults may not be enough with the bio-load you have, even when you take the heavy planting into account.

If it was me, I'd test my water several times a week for nitrates as they are growing and adjust either the amount of the current WC, or the frequency of the WC as you start reducing them. I'd also consider losing the rasbora's, at least half of the snails, the swordfish and the platy's.

Swordfish and platy's really aren't good fish at the higher discus temps. It shortens their lifespans. Rasbora's are usually ok, but reducing the bio-load will give you a greater chance of success with growing out your discus. Definitely don't need that many snails in the tank, and they do add wastes.

Your pleco's and the remaining snails should do a fine job of cleaning up any leftover bits of food from the substrate as well as doing some algae control.

I'm not big on UV sterilizers simply because they tend to knock out all sorts of helpful bacteria along with the nasty ones. So long as you are doing daily WC's, it's not really necessary and may, in the long run, compromise the immune systems of your discus. That's entirely your call though since some people love them and swear by them.

[zimmjeff]

your chances of getting them to adulthood will be slim with the gravel in there. I know that it is preached hear to go bare bottom, and I just saw the light this week. I tok down my 75 gallon tank that was planted and I could not believe the stuff that was in the rocks. This was while doing 80% water changes every 2-3 days. save your self the trouble and don't do a planted tank untill they are adult. just my thoughts. Jeff

[strawberryblonde]

I totally agree that it's easier to raise and grow out juvies in a bare bottom tank.

In this case though, the OP bought sub-adults and they've already been in the heavily planted tank for a month without any problems. That's why I recommended doing frequent nitrate checks...to be sure that the crud that builds up in the substrate isn't going to affect the health of the discus.

I just recently went bare bottom on my 115g tank. I'd added 4 new 4" discus and there were huge problems with having two pairs of spawning discus who claimed opposite corners of the tank, making vacuuming very difficult.

Once I started removing the sand I was shocked at how much crud was trapped in it! I'm a really thorough cleaner and did 80% WC's daily!!

Mine isn't heavily planted though so there wasn't anything consuming the icky stuff in the substrate. Now that my tank is bare the cleaning is SO much simpler and faster that I never wanna go back to sand. LOL

[STL_Cardinal]

As promised, here's a few pics. The third is of my fire red who is the leader of the group, and the last picture is of my brilliant turq who I think based on eye proportions might be stunted? (I bought all these fish before I really knew what to look for.) Oh well - I still love 'em! :D I also apologize in advance for the poor picture quality of my iphone 3g as well as my general lack of photography skills.

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While I agree w/ you all that BB tank would be much, much easier -- it just isn't an option for me as I live in a condo and my tank is in the middle of my living room as the "display tank." I also only do wc straight from the tap, but I just don't have room for an aging barrel. Fortunately, my testings consistently come out with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and trace nitrates. My fish are all very active, greet me, beg for food, etc.

A question on nitrates- I realize high nitrates will inhibit juvenile growth, but exactly how harmful are moderate (<20ppm) nitrate levels to adult discus? I thought ammonia and nitrites are much more harmful to fish than nitrates and that moderate nitrate levels, while not ideal, is ok?

BTW, I did manage to remove the platy's, swordfish, and rasboras. Still torn on removing half my nerite snails though! I thought they only produced negligible amounts of waste unless someone can show me otherwise?

Best Regards,
Paul

[strawberryblonde]

Very nice fish...congrats! Yep, the brilliant is a bit stunted, but depending on his current size he might have some room to grow a bit more, he looks very heatlhy, which is good!

About the nitrates, I'm just going on the general knowledge of people a lot more experienced in discus than myself here and in researching discus I learned that nitrates are just as important as ammonia and nitrites. Discus are much more sensitive to nitrates than other tropicals, even as adults.

I keep mine to 5ppm or under at all times. I know when my sump pre-filters need a thorough cleaning when I see my one of my discus twitching or see an occasional flash against my sword plants. Testing at that point in time always comes back with nitrates at about 20ppm. I put in new pre-filters, do my usual WC and bingo, no more itchiness.

If you can keep it below 10ppm you shouldn't have any problems when they're adults. Just watch for signs of itchy skin and if you see it, reduce the nitrates a bit more... till you find the point where your fish are comfortable. =)

If you like the nerite snails, go ahead and keep them for now. Much of this hobby is personal preference and what works for one person may not work for another. Yours seem to be working just fine for now so I say let 'em stay and only remove some if you see issues with the water quality.

It's good the other fish are out though since some would have had a hard time adapting to discus parameters and the reduced bio-load is good for the discus.

Enjoy your babies, you have some of my favorite strains! =)

[STL_Cardinal]

Just wanted to provide a quick update -- I had two BIG discoveries today. 1) The pigeon blood red and fire red are a PAIR and 2) They have laid eggs on my driftwood and are guarding them now! Really wasn't expecting this as I've only had them for a few weeks and I didn't think they were old enough to start breeding? Anyways, exciting stuff.

Will they always be this territorial towards the other discus or do they stop this once the eggs hatch/are eaten? I don't have any plans to raise fry at this point as I don't have another tank or the space to separate the pair from the rest. Anything else I should be aware of?