my new discus from joe gargas

[lipadj46]

well I got my juvies from joe gargas. These are the "dime" sized F2s he is selling on aquabid for $15 each with free priority mail shipping. Afew comments... First I bought 5 and he sent 6 just in case one did not make it (all are healthy), second these "dime" sized discus are more like quarter to silver dollar sized, finally his packaging was top notch, fitted styrofoam box with each discus in their own thermo-sealed kordon bag, these fish could live at least for a week I bet in their shipping box. I've read some negative comments about his prices/size and priority shipping but I think that I got a fine deal. Now lets see if I can keep them alive and growing!

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01261.jpg

[Sean Buehrle]

well I got my juvies from joe gargas. These are the "dime" sized F2s he is selling on aquabid for $15 each with free priority mail shipping. Afew comments... First I bought 5 and he sent 6 just in case one did not make it (all are healthy), second these "dime" sized discus are more like quarter to silver dollar sized, finally his packaging was top notch, fitted styrofoam box with each discus in their own thermo-sealed kordon bag, these fish could live at least for a week I bet in their shipping box. I've read some negative comments about his prices/size and priority shipping but I think that I got a fine deal. Now lets see if I can keep them alive and growing!

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01261.jpg

As long as you feed them well and change alot of water they will grow.

Looking forward to more pics in a month or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[William Palumbo]

Why are they called F2's?...those are Pigeon Bloods...Bill

[LizStreithorst]

Had I received these fish I wouldn't be as happy as you are. Price too high, quality too low.

[Rex82]

Had I received these fish I wouldn't be as happy as you are. Price too high, quality too low.


Why are they called F2's?...those are Pigeon Bloods...Bill

My thoughts exactly. Not very good quality at all and will grow to be very peppered Pigeon bloods.

[Skip]

my F4 Rams are AWESOME :) they just came in today!

[Rex82]

I seen that skip! they do look really good

[Skip]

My thoughts exactly. Not very good quality at all and will grow to be very peppered Pigeon bloods.

the pics he has of the parents has peppering..

[YSS]

If they are quarter sized, they will transform immensely depending on how well they are taken care of. Good luck growing them out. I think they look pretty good.

[Skip]

keep us updated..

[discuspaul]

If they are quarter sized, they will transform immensely depending on how well they are taken care of. Good luck growing them out. I think they look pretty good.

I think YSS has a valid point & I basically agree with his/her comments.
While those discus may well be currently displaying PB traits and genes, that is not to say that proper care and tank conditions will not result in some good looking adult specimens, without significant peppering. In my view, it's far too early to tell at this stage ( age & size) how well those fish could eventually turn out.

[discusdaddy]

I got rams and angels a few months ago from Joe, all made it and all are very nice high quality fish.

[Keith Perkins]

It's hard to tell with just one picture, but it appears to me he threw in one that could have just as well been a cull. As others had said though, with very good care it might be surprising how well some of them eventually turn out.

[lipadj46]

It's hard to tell with just one picture, but it appears to me he threw in one that could have just as well been a cull. As others had said though, with very good care it might be surprising how well some of them eventually turn out.

yeah there is one that is definitely peppered but I only paid for 5. We shall see how they turn out. If I have luck with these I may just buy a 120 gallon and a massive piece of manzanita and get some really nice adults. These guys are my intro to raising discus from juvies so we will see how it goes. I would think joe gargas would not be sending out bad fish as he is just trrying to get re-established after a 10 year hiatus.

[Keith Perkins]

I've only been around SD for about 2 years so I'm not familiar with Joe. The one I was referring to as a possible cull based on the single picture provided was the center one of three on the left. At least in this picture it looks small, large eyed, and football shaped. It might just be the picture.

[Sean Buehrle]

yeah there is one that is definitely peppered but I only paid for 5. We shall see how they turn out. If I have luck with these I may just buy a 120 gallon and a massive piece of manzanita and get some really nice adults. These guys are my intro to raising discus from juvies so we will see how it goes. I would think joe gargas would not be sending out bad fish as he is just trrying to get re-established after a 10 year hiatus.

I have to tell ya that I got some really ugly blue snakeskins a few months back and they have really grown alot.

They were really small and not very good shaped. Plus they were sick.

I have been changing their water quite a bit all along and feeding the crap out of them, they are looking kinda decent.
They won't ever be big discus but I'll bet I can get them up into the high 4 ish range by this winter, with an ok shape.

A couple haven't really grown at all and should be culled, but I need to keep a decent size school in the tank to make the others comfortable.

What I'm hoping for with them is to get a pair out of the 4 that are decent sized and shaped.

We will see.




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[DerekFF]

Joe has some GREAT rams, decent angels and....not so great discus..... Im not sure why he's calling them F2's because when talking about F series fish it has to do with generations away from the wild stock....pigeon bloods are A LOOOOONG way away from F-anything lol. Joe is a good guy though, just not sure where/why he decided to do discus.

[DerekFF]

I think YSS has a valid point & I basically agree with his/her comments.
While those discus may well be currently displaying PB traits and genes, that is not to say that proper care and tank conditions will not result in some good looking adult specimens, without significant peppering. In my view, it's far too early to tell at this stage ( age & size) how well those fish could eventually turn out.

Color and size will change, but a general poor shape at this age IMO wont ever make out right. Looks like maybe 1 with a general poor shape in there but the others look good. Just dont call them F2's lol people will laugh at you

[LizStreithorst]

The F number refers to the number of generations the family of fish has been bred to oneanother. You take an unrelated pair and breed them together and their offspring are F1. You breed sib to sib and the offspring are F2. Do the same with them and their offsping are F3.

It has nothing to do with quality. The quality of these fish is poor.

[ericatdallas]

Joe Gargas has been selling these for a few months on Aquabid at least... I keep tabs of whats selling on there just to see if there is anything interesting or if there are good deals (rarely for discus, but lots of times for everything else - but we're discus snobs so our good deal means something different altogether).

This might be the auction (or similar) : http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwdiscus&1313262456

So I think he calls them F2 because it's a PBxSS (F1) mother with an unspecified SS male (I'm guessing it too is PBxSS). So there's a chance that these five will range the full spectrum of characteristics.

Also, I think it's $15 each and free shipping. So per fish, that's pricey, but most of that is going towards shipping.

I personally don't like that cross, but to each their own. Who are we to judge? Joe is filling a niche market for people who want cheap starter fish. He's also filling an even smaller niche (possibly) of providing F2 PBxSS crosses <shrug>.

Anyway, lipadj46, good luck with the new fish :)

[LizStreithorst]

You nailed it, Eric. I need to quit being the Discus police woman. Not everyone wants what I want. Joe Gargas is filling a niche. Good for him. The extra $5. per fish is fine as long as they are not shipped an a bag in a cardboard box.

[Skip]

i got some of Joe's rams.. the packing was great.. Styrofoam box, that was tapped shut, each bag was like vacuum packed/sealed.. they were all wrapped up in about 4 paper towels.. shipping to Texas, the box was about 84 inside. so i would have to assume, the discus are done the same way and not just a bag in a box..

[LizStreithorst]

That's good to know, Skip. I'll be wanting some nice Rams in the future. I'll buy from him if he will have me as a customer. Won't be buying any Discus from him, though.

[Skip]

That's good to know, Skip. I'll be wanting some nice Rams in the future. I'll buy from him if he will have me as a customer. Won't be buying any Discus from him, though.

here are pics of the packing..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?89913-Powder-Blue-Rams-F4s-by-Joe-Gargas/page2

[LizStreithorst]

Excellent packing. I hope that when the time comes he will sell to me and he has the standard GBRs. I like them best. Who knows why?

[lipadj46]

I just paid $200 including shipping for 6 discus from Hans. So 6 fish for $75 shipped is just in a different category. Like mentioned above Joes packaging is top notch. These little discus could last a week in the box I would bet. As an update All 6 fish are doing great, eating BH mix, NLS pellets and flake food. They have all grown noticeably in a week, the peppering is only shown when the lights are off. 4 look like will be a decent shape. 1 is going to be elongated and 1 will probably lag behing the rest (runt). They are still in QT in a 10 gallon but will eventually be in a split 55 gallon with the Hans discus on the other side (after QT)

[ericatdallas]

lipad, just curious how your discus look now. After 3 months, they should have better shape.

[Skip]

lipad, just curious how your discus look now. After 3 months, they should have better shape.

+1

[yim11]

The F number refers to the number of generations the family of fish has been bred to oneanother. You take an unrelated pair and breed them together and their offspring are F1. You breed sib to sib and the offspring are F2. Do the same with them and their offsping are F3.

It has nothing to do with quality. The quality of these fish is poor.

Liz is correct on all points.

To add:

F1 stands for Filial 1, the first filial generation seeds/plants or animal offspring resulting from a cross mating of distinctly different parental types.

http://books.google.com/books?id=j-_rAKRf3WwC&pg=PA58&dq=%22Filial+1%22+%22F1+hybrid%22#v=onepage&q=%22Filial%201%22%20%22F1%20hybrid%22&f=false

[Discus PB]

The ones I just got from Joe are dime and nickle size.

[ericatdallas]

The ones I just got from Joe are dime and nickle size.

Please post pics when they get bigger.

[Skip]

UPDATE!?

one year later?

[gwrace]

I had a terrible experience with ordering fish from Joe Gargas when I first started out with discus, and I will never order again. The box arrived soaked and one of the bags had broken open during shipment. One fish DOA right off the bat. The others didn't last a week. When I contacted Joe about what I felt was a very poor packing job he would not accept accountability for any of the problems. The bags are very little along with the fish and they arrive in very little water. These were dime sized fish placed into a cycled 30 gallon quarantine tank by themselves. Just my two cents. Packaging from Kenny on the other hand as set new standards of quality..:)

[lipadj46]

Three have survived (had a bad case of columnaris last year). They are about 5ish inches and round, the peppering on the body is almost gone. The fin peppering is still there. I can take pics later after i get this compessor in my passat

[elcabezas]

I had a great experience buying from Joe a month ago on an order of blue angels. I bought 6 and he sent me 15. All arrived fine and still kicking an screaming in my tank. Packing look very solid to me. I feel sorry for your bad experience gwrace but you can not really blame him for a bad handling from the shipping company. Is not his fault that the shippers used your package to play socker with it. That's the problem with buying online you never know the moron who is going to handle your package from one state to the other.

[Skip]

well, this thread is about his fish.. bought over a year go..

i asked or an update.. since there is not much if any data other then his shipping and size of ship on arrival.. and its usually novice/newbie that get them..

hence my question for update..

[lipadj46]

I'll take some pics tomorrow. Replacing the the compressor/drier/condenser in a WV passat in 95 degree weather has pwned me. wife not nagging about having no AC is priceless though.

[a volar]

it will be nice to see how they look now.......

[lipadj46]

Here are my Gargas pigeon mutts a year later. There are some quick down and dirty flash shots and one better one without a flash. Remember these are my first discus, they went through a near death columnaris experience which left them with some gill plate deformities/curl and then they had gill flukes. So they've been through the ringer. I started with 7 lost 3 to columnaris and one jumped out and died. They are not perfect but they did not end up too bad, they were lots of work and taught me quite a bit.

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01599.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01598.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01597.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01596.jpg

[xxbenjamminxx]

Wow very nice looking if you ask me. Thanks for the updates on them. Any idea what caused the columnaris outbreak? Never dealt with that and from what I hear I never want too....

[dprais1]

I'm no expert but They look great to me. That angel doesn't look like it goes hungry either- it's stomach looks HUGE

[lipadj46]

Wow very nice looking if you ask me. Thanks for the updates on them. Any idea what caused the columnaris outbreak? Never dealt with that and from what I hear I never want too....

Not sure what caused the columnaris. Probably just because I was not on my A game with water quality back then. It was quite depressing losing so many fish (including 4 stendkers) but was rewarding when I brought the rest back from the edge.

[lipadj46]

I'm no expert but They look great to me. That angel doesn't look like it goes hungry either- it's stomach looks HUGE

Yes that's what happens when you put a baby angel in a discus growout tank lol!

[LizStreithorst]

They look way better than I'd have expected. They were peppered and some had ugly shapes when you first got them. You did extremely well growing them out.

[Second Hand Pat]

Those are quite nice. Red dragon/Tefe parents I am guessing.

[lipadj46]

They look way better than I'd have expected. They were peppered and some had ugly shapes when you first got them. You did extremely well growing them out.

Thanks! I do recall you had some choice words when I first posted the pics lol!


Those are quite nice. Red dragon/Tefe parents I am guessing.

Yes red pigeon with green tefe is what they were sold as.

[a volar]

definitely they look a lot better

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks! I do recall you had some choice words when I first posted the pics.

Just think what you could do with high quality fish. You might could raise some show winners. Think about it.

[lipadj46]

Just think what you could do with high quality fish. You might could raise some show winners. Think about it.

Lol yeah, those blue turqs from mmorris you see in the pics are going to be my "nice" discus.

[LizStreithorst]

More pics of them, please. What size were they when you bought them?

[lipadj46]

More pics of them, please. What size were they when you bought them?

I'll get some pics up later. Doing important stuff now (grilling chicken and drinking beer). I think i got them last november at 2". They were never fed a beefheart mix only bill's flake, prime reef, and nls pellets. We will see how they look by next xmas. My next goal is to start a wild heckel tank when the season starts. Though i've gotten quite into shrimp these days

[zimmjeff]

congradulations.

[mmorris]

You did a fantastic job of growing them out! :)

[Keith Perkins]

It's hard to tell with just one picture, but it appears to me he threw in one that could have just as well been a cull. As others had said though, with very good care it might be surprising how well some of them eventually turn out.

:grin:

:lipsrseal:

[lipadj46]

Just gave these guys away to a nice kid who drove up here all the way from nyc. My next project is growing out blue knights.

[Skip]

Just gave these guys away to a nice kid who drove up here all the way from nyc. My next project is growing out blue knights.

good for you!

[Jdizon20]

Very inspiring thread and turn of events. Thanks for updating.

[Wildcaught dutchman]

Thumbs up buddy!!!!Never expected such fish after the bad start they have had in the beginning.Really great!!Congratulations.You did very good work!:D

[vadyao]

I agree, Joe's discus are very healthy and affordable for discus beginners. I ordered 4 red dragon discus from him and recieved them from $60 w/ free shipping. They acclimated very well and are eating well. Asides from being a little shy, I would say his discus are great. Can't wait till mine reach adult size. Here's what some of them look likehttp://s23.postimg.org/52e2rungb/IMG_0078.jpg

[poeticwinter]

awesome fish! love the yellow babies

[frylover]

I really like yellow discus. Hope it all turns out well!

[Susie]

I bought Koi angelfish from Joe. When they arrived they had very little, hardly none, of the koi coloring. I kept them for about a year waiting for their color to develop. Then I gave up and donated them to the LFS near me. I was totally disappointed! I will never buy from him again. There are too many dependable sellers selling nice fish. If I wanted culls I would go to my LFS.

[Susie]

What 10 year hiatus???????? He has been breeding and selling right along. He sold my bogus koi angelfish about 4 years ago.

[Susie]

AMEN TO THAT!

[Jstaabs]

I bought some from him about 2 months ago i was happy with his communication (happier with Kenny though) what I didn't expect was how small they were I got 3 at 45 shipped and for the size was way to much they are no bigger then a dime might be smaller but so far 2 of them are doing great I had one die after I put him in the qt tank. They are white spotted red dragons and are already peppered up. Really disappointed in myself for buying these

[dblackburn27]

I've bought Rams off of Joe, there great!

[DISCUS STU]

Enjoy your fish. They look healthy and will grow to be healthy fish given the proper care that I'm sure you're up for.

Yes, they're PB's and are a good hardy strain to get going with. Price isn't too bad, how much less expensive should they be? One of them isn't that great but I guess that's the "extra" one. Peppering or not, it's not such a big deal. Joe Gargas has been dealing with Discus a very long time and I'm glad that you're happy with the experience.

There are some very good Discus sellers; reputable, reliable, and honest, and then there are others that are the complete opposite; true rip off artists, internet scammers that sell runted, sickly, tortured looking fish that you end up caring for, medicating, etc. only to see them die or live as stunted unhealthy fish. Well let's just say the second group be horse whipped, figuratively speaking.

Unfortunately they are good at getting away with their scams and are even better at working the credit card companies to their advantage to get around credit card disputes when you feel that you shouldn't pay for the privilege of receiving their inferior goods and months to years of keeping and raising sickly, expensive, fish. :argue:

Sorry for the rant but I'm glad to see that you had a good internet Discus purchasing experience, as they all should be.

[chuckiesmalls]

Here are my Gargas pigeon mutts a year later. There are some quick down and dirty flash shots and one better one without a flash. Remember these are my first discus, they went through a near death columnaris experience which left them with some gill plate deformities/curl and then they had gill flukes. So they've been through the ringer. I started with 7 lost 3 to columnaris and one jumped out and died. They are not perfect but they did not end up too bad, they were lots of work and taught me quite a bit.

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01599.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01598.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01597.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/DSC01596.jpg

holy those ugly lil suckers became BEAUTIES!!!