Thinking of giving up trying :(

[rorie87]

I have my low tech 90L which looks great. I dont do much with it, it just works! Looks great! Photo below.

My 360L is high tech. It has cost me a fortune. I have been tweeking it for so long now and i am thinking of giving up with it. I have £300 of CO2 kit alone! The problems are that the carpeting plant never grew, so i added extra light, extra CO2 and extra flow (not all at once). The extra light seemed to do the trick, but that lead to a huge and uncontrollable amount of algae. CO2 had to increase, as flow was already high (with discus) as had two 1200l/h filters and 2 900l/h pumps.

I have moved things all over the place to optimise the flow etc, but still no luck.

I have had a couple total panic moments where i have increased the CO2 a tiny bit, and next thing all the fish are breathing at an incredibly fast rate. I have had to run and put loads of air stones in to sort it out. Thankfully i have always caught it early.

My CO2 levels just dont seem to be steady no matter what i do. So last night i moved the position of my spray bar output and put the CO2 up a little. Not as high as it had been in the past though. This morning (take into account the CO2 has been off all night!) and all my fish were breathing heavy as anything!! So again i have switched off the CO2 (wasnt active yet anyway) and filled it with air stones.

So i am at the stage of giving up. Tried everything - cant add more flow, tried every combination of changing flow. Light is high for carpet plants, but creating huge algae issues. CO2 is stressing fish and not good for discus. So i am thinking to save worrying about the CO2 levels, to save trying and trying and trying to get the carpet plants to grow, i could give up. And reducing the light will get rid of the algae. I hate giving up, and it is not like me at all. I love a challenge, and read loads into things. I'm an engineer, so the way i see it is that there WILL be a solution somewhere. But i have just not managed with this, and its coming to the stage its putting my fish at risk and its taking a lot of time out of my day.

I am thinking of changing the layout that is just now (2nd photo below) to pulling up all the carpet plants and putting down either sand or gravel. Just now its ADA substrate which is very soil like so kicks up easily.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x308/backtotropical/Rorie.jpg
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/5824_algaebig-5c.jpg

[Chunks]

I don't have the answer but I'm sure it's out there. It would be a shame to give up on such a beautiful tank.

[Skip]

U can have beautiful plants and dead discus
Or
Beautiful discus and dead plants

Take ur pick

[rorie87]

Warlock4169, clearly you are of the opinion that discus and plants dont mix? But there are some amazing looking tanks which have both, so how do they work? It would be a real shame, but i just dont know how to fix the problems!

[prolude006]

If you can put a timer on your air stone, make it come on at night time when the co2 is off. Healthy plants will put out a lot of their own co2 at night. when the lights come on have the air stone shut down and an hour later the co2 come on (their will be lots of co2 right after the lights come on so dont need to pump more in right away). I would go with one pump to move the water around and have it as far to the bottom of the tank diffusing the co2 through it across the length of the tank(are you using it as a diffuser?) The spray bar should not have the co2 go through it if you can use the pump instead, that way you can have the spray bar point up to the surface to ripple the water (not completely break the surface) so that you get some gas exchange, if you dont have any at all you will get loads of algae no matter what. In Amano tanks they have the filter output shaped so that it swirls the top of the water for this reason. Leave the ada soil for carpet plants, id kill to have some of that stuff. Whats your temperature? Id try to keep it close to 82F. Whats your light specs? You need to find a balance to light, fertilizer and co2 (its not super easy but once you get it its worth it) More of everything doesn't usually work. High light, high co2 needs a fertilizer added to the tank likely daily or at least weekly.
I like how the tank looks, I would personally take that cool drift wood on the right and move it to the center a bit and put the sword plants in the corner behind it to cascade the height tall to short. Id carpet the whole left side with the short plants and leave it open for some space for the fish to swim around in.

check out the following vid for some ideas, I dont like them all but they are very nicely setup. There is a site as well with some pics showing open sides with one side built up but mostly to show the rippled surface water and that co2 diffusing in with one pump on one side is enough. No high flow needed.
http://reefbuilders.com/2009/12/03/aga-aquascaping-contest-delivers-stunning-freshwater-views/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xjV6_3Xgoc


Good luck
David

[rorie87]

Thanks very much for the input.

I will try add an air stone during the night. I switched off my CO2 in a rage this morning when my fish were struggling, but now everything has settled, i am giving it yet another bash!

My CO2 is diffused into the water outlet which comes out through a spray bar. I used to have a small glass ADA diffuser, but it was not efficient at getting the CO2 around the size of my tank (5 foot long).

I have two filters, both outputting through spray bars but at opposite sides of the tank. I was thinking about getting a lilly output for the one which has CO2 diffused in it, as i hear it is really good for breaking surface tension and putting CO2 into the tank?

The temp of the tank 82 just now.

Is there a dye i can add to the tank so track the flow? This may sound strange, but it would be really handy to see if the flow goes where i want it to!

[Skip]

Warlock4169, clearly you are of the opinion that discus and plants dont mix? But there are some amazing looking tanks which have both, so how do they work? It would be a real shame, but i just dont know how to fix the problems!

LOL>> nah. i am under the opinion, that i like to focus on one thing, get good at it.. then move on to next thing.. i am working with discus at the moment.. :)

hope you find your solution.. it is a fine balance..

[judy]

What exactly do you have in the way of equipment? You mentioned air pump, spray bar... I am thinking you may have too much flow, causing your CO2 to dissipate , requiring you to up the CO2-- run down the gear you are using. I may be able to spot something if I know that info... I have been keeping discus with a planted tank for about 25 years. Recently went to potted as I got tired of vaccing substrate... this shot is just after the re-tooling. Now the tank's a veritable jungle and I don't even use CO2.

68120

[rorie87]

Ok:
360 L tank. 5 foot long, 2 foot high.
Lights are 2 foot above substrate. 2x54w for 6 hours. 2x54w for 2 hours
substrate is ADA
1 eheim pro 3 external 1200l/h output with spray bar but output through a UV filter first
1 tetratec EX 1200 l/h output through aquamedic reactor 1000.
CO2 is using this system http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/products/aquatics/co2-system/co2-kits-and-bottles/tgm-complete-co2-kit
and is diffused as above
i have two 900l/h power heads.

all my main plants at the back grow like hell - amazon swords etc. But i have tried various different carpet plants which just do not grow. Hence i tried the second light unit to boost the light getting to the substrate. But then algae is the issue!

PH is super low - 5.5....dropping to 4.2 at times, though i dont know why it fluctuates so much.....i assume due to the CO2.

[ericatdallas]

Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been.

Skip, I'm disappointed in you! You're an engineer! Our solution to everything (EVERYTHING) is MORE technology :) We're supposed to create the world that has 'never' been.

I don't have a solution yet, but it's obvious you need more toys.

[Sean Buehrle]

What exactly do you have in the way of equipment? You mentioned air pump, spray bar... I am thinking you may have too much flow, causing your CO2 to dissipate , requiring you to up the CO2-- run down the gear you are using. I may be able to spot something if I know that info... I have been keeping discus with a planted tank for about 25 years. Recently went to potted as I got tired of vaccing substrate... this shot is just after the re-tooling. Now the tank's a veritable jungle and I don't even use CO2.

68120

That tank is sweet lookin, I like the plant pots look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[walan20]

What exactly do you have in the way of equipment? You mentioned air pump, spray bar... I am thinking you may have too much flow, causing your CO2 to dissipate , requiring you to up the CO2-- run down the gear you are using. I may be able to spot something if I know that info... I have been keeping discus with a planted tank for about 25 years. Recently went to potted as I got tired of vaccing substrate... this shot is just after the re-tooling. Now the tank's a veritable jungle and I don't even use CO2.

68120 THAT IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL DISCUS TANK I HAVE EVER SEEN@!!@!~!@~~@#!!@~~~!!!!!!!

[rorie87]

haha. I have tried all the toys though! Sometimes there is no engineering solution, or it is not financially viable to peruse a solution without the right expertise.....so i am looking at bailing if you guys cant help haha

Your tank does look good. Though i have my breeding tanks (not the discus ones) with plants like this. So want my main show tank with substrate and planted.

Judy, give me your answers :p

[x2h]

I am with Judy. Don't just give up. Just go low tech planted tank with Discus, learn the tricks, then go high tech again if you want to. My tank is similar to Judy's, plants in pots, no ferts, no CO2, it just grows like weeds. My discus pair is there for only 22 days now, and they have spawned 4 times already and I think the next one is coming soon again! Remember, "KISS"- keep it simple, silly. Saves you time and money. Good luck!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?89779-My-75-Gallon-discus-planted-tank

[tisha85]

hi there i have a 6x2x2 planted discus tank with co2 running but i have 2 air stone at the back of my tank i run them all the time i have that problem to that i can't get the carpeting plant to grown there is my tank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTgq5WqS7I my i like your set up looks great :)

[prolude006]

Whoa easy here. lol
Dont make this too hard, its not that complicated.

Find a good number of bubbles per second that keeps your co2 at a level thats ok for your fish. Any co2 you add will help your plants anyway. Start with two lights on and low co2. Then let the tank stabilize with that. You will have algae until it does this, dont worry it will fix itself as long as you dont mess with it constantly. The algae will just start disappearing when its overcome by the plants. (plants grow roots first then growth starts after that) Remember to do twice a week 25% water changes to help with mineral balance.
The size of your tank is fine with the current that would be provided by a properly sized canister filter. You would not need any extra water movement at all. The co2 will diffuse just fine throughout the tank. Id kill for a lily output if I could afford it.
Second if you want to see the flow in your tank drop some flake food in and see where it ends up, I bet all over the tank, and the co2 spreads way easier than that.
If your ph bounces around and your co2 levels wont stay constant then your kh might not be high enough and co2 might be out of the question without some costlier products.
If you are using HC for a carpet plant you need to break it into very small clumps and place it all over the bottom carefully. It will take time to spread and may look like its dying back at first, leave it!