3 week olds, born & raised in planted community

[pastry]

Hey everyone, I don't post much but definitely see people asking once in awhile about this. I've had a pair that are awesome parents but I finally got rid of my extra tank (which I played around with breeding them) but they've been in my 125 gallon for awhile now and finally started breeding again. I thought about posting to this to the breeding forum but I thought this was more appropriate because I'm not trying to breed them but LOVE starring at the babies they have growing up. I don't feed them anything either... they just pick at crap that's in my aquarium, always have full bellies, and hardly pick at the parents anymore (infact, the parents can't stand it anymore because I think those little boogers have teeth now!). okay, more background on my tank: I'm a HORRIBLE water changer (once a week 60-70% water change... sometimes 2 weeks), I have sand from the beach and wood from a lake here in SC (cured both), I have 7 adult discus (not too big... hence that bad water changes), brustle nose pleco, cory's, small school of tetra (forgot what the are) and those tetras keep having little ones survive (started with 5, now have 9), and who knows what else in the tank. My filter consists of a undersized external hanging filter that's suitable for a tank no more than half the size of my tank. I have a power head moving water and aerator as well. Any how, love my discus but need to work on the water changes and filtration system. Meanwhile, they're all happy and have plenty of space. hope this video works!

[Joker43]

Did you say Video?

Tito:jester:

[pastry]

I did, already messed up. It's downloading to youtube right now but taking FOREVER... it's only 2 mins long but is there a way to possibly shrink the size of a video? I know how to reduce a picture but not a video.

[LizStreithorst]

I need to see the video. I want to evaluate the babies. I know what a 3 week old Discus should look like. I also want to see them as they mature.

What you are doing is just too cool.

I have BB tanks, but when I get free swimmers I toss a handful of compost from the red wiggler culture into the tank. My tiny babies leave their parents sides to feast on what they find in it even before they take BBS. They grow like weeds.

I want to know your water parameters, too. MORE PLEASE!

[pastry]

will do liz! it's been almost 2 hours and youtube says 50% uploaded... geez! i'll say ahead of time, i know i should up water changes to at least 30% per day but still doing the same ol' same ol'. will take the water parameters tomorrow. have to get my actual newborn to sleep! will post as soon as the video uploads! will say this, sometime the two baby tetra i have get mixed in with the baby discus... weird...

[x2h]

i was thinking doing the same but haven't got a 55 gal yet. video pls and thanks!

[pastry]

okay, got it! really didn't turn out that great (quality wise) but it's at the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuxvFhm_2uA

[x2h]

thanks! nice tanks. very spacious! that proves that it's possible to have discus fries in a community tank. I will leave it to the others to comment on the fries size etc.

[Sean Buehrle]

Is that 3 weeks from freeswimmers or from the spawning.


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pastry]

Actually, 3 weeks from spawning. Still, I've looked through youtube and can definitely tell that they aren't as big as any pro breeders with bare tanks and every day water changes. The weird thing is that I can tell a difference between the sizes in the pigeon blood fry & the snake skin. The female is a PB and the male is a SS. The SS fry are definitely bigger than the PB fry. I think in the future I'd like to have only one or two types of discus in my tank but for now it's mixed (and if these little guys make it, then I guess it'll continue to be mixed). Probably won't be the cutest discus in the world but still think it's awesome that they're able to roam around a community tank. I've already seen several on the total opposite side of the tank from their parents just grazing wood and leaves. The two tiny baby tetras I see are already eating some of the flakes I have (tiny pieces) but haven't seen the little discus eating any. Not quite sure what they are eating, actually, but whatever it is, their bellies are full.

Liz, I still owe you water parameters.

[LizStreithorst]

Age is figured from free swimming, not from spawning. A few days makes a BIG difference in size and shape of young fry.

You're right, the quality of the vid ain't great, but to me the fry look good for their age. More importantly, their shape is excellent for their age.

It's a shame (to me) that the parents aren't a good mix, but you are doing this for your own enjoyment not to produce top quality fish.

I'm a huge fan of big WC as often as possible. But you seem to have the magic going on so I don't know that I'd advise you to change anything. Very cool. Beautiful tank. How large is it?

[pastry]

Going to have to buy a new chemistry set. Shows how often I check my water values. After repitition, I just stop doing it. I opened up my test kit and half the stuff either leaked or was out. Meanwhile, the babies are swimming where ever they please and nobody messes with them. I also thought there were only baby tetras in the tank but ended up being four. All of these little buggers are just doing what they want I guess. I did get a ph reading and it's right at 6.0. I would rather that for wild discus and not tank bred but hey, it works. I'm just hoping that doesn't indicate my ammonia level going to hell. Meanwhile, yep, they're all happy, eating, breeding,... but I sure wish they'd grow just a tinnie bit bigger. I'll try to get some pics posted this weekend if anyone's interested.

[LizStreithorst]

Interested.

[b0red04]

awsome!

[AKRON AWOL]

yeah i'm interested too! i love the look of the layout...just wish it was a bit brighter so i could really see it :)

[coralreefer68]

Very cool...... would love to see pics as they grow!!

John

[pastry]

wow, haven't checked this in a few days... thanks for the interests! guess i owe some pics. i'll try to get some of the little guys as well as some of the baby tetras that ended up surviving (thus far). also, just ordered a canister filter (fluval 405) since the fish are starting to multiply and need more than a few HOB's. i almost built a wet/dry but the guy at the LFS said that i'd be better off with a canister since i have the plants (plus that's what they were using in his show tanks; great store, whether right or wrong, he could've easily coaxed me into a purchase that was much more than a canister but he didn't).

liz- i was able to scrounge up materials for a nh3/nh4 test out of my old "TetraTest Laborett" kit and came out between 0 mg/l and 0.25 mg/l (closer to the zero). regardless if good or bad, with these discus and tetra babies popping up in my tanks and actually LIVING (vice being eaten!) i know that's either going to change when they get bigger or possibly hurt/kill them.

hate to confess to everyone but i'm using a HOB that's rated for about a 60-75 gallon aquarium with only an additional old powerhead to churn a little more water around. i didn't see the need for a bigger filtration system because i didn't put that many fish in to begin with but those boogers are multiplying! i'm also curious to see what the heck the little discus are picking at in there... i'm sure something's growing in there for them to eat

[pastry]

okay, hopefully i still remember how to post pics. i tried like hell to zoom in on some of the little guys but really couldn't get a clear picture. we just got a new (supposedly great) camera but still learning how to use it (LUMIX). in some that you see the tetras you can also see one baby that's a PB. Another one looks like a SS in the makings but it also came out blurry (well, looks like any other baby with bars). one pic is an old one with the parents (yikes, i know, not a good combo... it just happened to be that they did it 2 days after buying them and putting them in the quarantine tank... and kept raising little ones until i finally put them in the community... until now). the biggest babies are between a dime and nickel while the smallest are still under a dime (there are only 13 babies that have survived but these 13 have been steady without further losses for a while now) you also may be able to see one of the baby tetras in the pics...

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank129.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank113.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank112.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank110.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank108.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank107.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/wigginsriley_fishtank123.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/eldog380/discus/OysterFestival2010_LindsMattengaged051.jpg

[pastry]

the fourth one down has one of the PBs above the tetras if you look close. that's an average size baby.

[wendy9722]

that is a beautiful tank and very cute looking babies. I've tried for a short period of time with sand and plants but it didnt work out. You are so lucky and blessed. Keep us all posted with them. The one pic of the one baby seemed to be playing peek a boo. LOLS!!!

[pastry]

thanks wendy! my wife & i took the sand straight from the beach and the wood from a freshwater lake around here (which a 10+ ft gator was captured at a week later... right in the waist deep water we were looking for good driftwood). it's been hit or miss with plants but some day want to add a CO2 system and really get some of the plants growing that wouldn't normally grow without it... we'll see.

[Plumkin]

im really enjoying your tank !

[pastry]

thanks plumkin! everyone else, i'll try to get some updates once a week with pics. please don't get your hopes up like me... knowing me parameters, they probably won't get that big unless i start doing 50% WC every day. then again, i never would have thought they would've made it this far.

[Plumkin]

how big is the tank? i might of missed it by being stunned by how pretty ur tank is

[pastry]

Update. Good news and bad news:

Good news: my new canister filter (Fluval 405) came in and is working like a charm. The water is sooooooooo clear compared to what it used to be and all of the fish are even happier…

Bad news: …except for the baby discus. The Fluval is so good that any crap that I used to have that the babies fed on (whatever it was) apparently is affected/sucked up by the new filter. I can only see about 4 left. They drastically declined within a few days of having the filter. They went from full bellies to skinny and “shrinking” with the exception of one who somehow is still thriving.

It disappointments me but at the same time I didn’t intend on breeding them and raising them; my intention is to have a planted discus community tank and “whatever happens in the tank, stays in the tank”.

Plumkin, thanks for the compliment :) The tank is 150 gallons

[judy]

aww. they were really cute.

[CrazyAngels]

I believe they have been surviving on free floating algae which you now have removed from your tank with the new filter.

[walt3]

how old is this tank? looks really cool.

[NewETown]

One of the things I think that's helping your tank and allowing you to do what you're doing (pre fluval although I don't think the added filter will affect this) is the massive number of Malaysian Trumpet Snails you have. MTS in that number probably keep your substrate very healthy. I've just seeded my 75 gallon with 5 MTS in hopes that I get a huge colony down the road... People hate snails but they really can be beneficial, especially those.

-Everett

[walt3]

i am starting to see more and more snails in my tank as well. i think they look cool and really dont have a proble. i think they just add one more layer to the natural looking tank. thats what im going for and im going to let things develop and just keep an eye on things.

[Sean Buehrle]

Your tank is neat looking, good luck with the babies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Plumkin]

welcome I would love to see update pics on the fry :D

[mmd]

nice, i have a planted 150 and a pair of my discus just spawned (not bad since i have only had them a week).. hope i have your sucess.

[pastry]

wow! sorry folks. haven't been on in awhile and didn't know how much interest was still there. well i thought all of them had bit the dust once the new filter system was installed and cleaned all the stuff they did eat... but... after a week of not seeing any of them i had a little guy pop out of no where and look right at me one night before turning the lights off for the night! i'm hoping there are more still in there. it's actually one of the PB's and not the striped ones. i'm hoping i can find a few more surprises like him/her. not much growth though. guess i owe some pics soon plus some of the pics i took before the new filter was installed. meanwhile, does anyone know if there's a way to slow down the flow of a fluval 405 without hurting the system? the same parents spawned again, had the fry attach to their sides, but then ALL OF THEM got sucked up the damn intake when the parents got too close to it. the parents keep spawning near that intake. i can probably take some of my wives old panty hose and put it over the intake but don't want to screw it up PLUS that intake is pretty strong and may still suck those little boogers into any kind of shield (panty hose/net) that i use to cover it.

again, my intent for the tank is to let it take it's course but come on... you all know damn well i'd love to have a few of those make it once in a while (like the tetras i have! i need the discus to eat a few of those!... starting to get ridiculous!)

[pastry]

crazyangels- i think you're right on with the floating algae. the weird thing is that i'd always see all of the others grazing the algae on the wood that's not floating (guess it wasn't as tastey as the floating stuff)

walt- the tank is about 2 years old now. ihave pics of when it was new and it's awesome to see the amazon in the far left corner growth difference

newetown- i don't mind the snails yet i do. they've grown too much in numbers in the past and i've had to trap them. i don't want to get rid of all of them as i think they are beneficial as well yet the substrate has actually gotten soooooooooooooo much better with the fluval. be careful with the population! contemplating getting a few small loaches (not clowns; i had one bad experience a long time ago with a clown loach... i hate actual clowns too!) to keep the population under control.

[walt3]

i would be sad about losing the babies too. :(

[Skip]

its alot easier if you just put them into their own tank.. if you want fry.. if not.. then its a cycle you will keep seeing..

[pastry]

well, one's still popping up here and there. cool to see him surviving.

hi warlock, not trying to breed them. just letting it all up to them. as it turns out, having them in the community wasn't the problem... it was me switching to a stronger filter. i have a bunch of tetras that keep multiplying in there as well. plenty of places to hide and thrive! after this experience, i believe that if you have a pair of parents that both have strong parent instincts, then there's no worry about others eating the little guys. someone else posted a video on youtube with a beautiful pair that raised a LOT of little ones successfully within a planted, community tank. most people now days probably overstock their planted tanks or see a strong pair and remove them without giving them a shot... if more people decided (definitely using the word "decided") to just see if a pair with strong parenting skills could raise little guys in a planted community tank then i bet we'd see many more threads like this.

...oh yeah, leave a little light on at night time too ;)

[Skip]

i like night lites to.. :)

i am sure some could survive.. its easy for adults to lay eggs.. but having egss hatch AND growing them out is another story.. (that is if you want good strong healthy large fish :)

if not.. like you said.. survival of the fittest :)

[Maria Ashton]

...oh yeah, leave a little light on at night time too ;)

Hi - new to discus let alone breeding, was wondering why a light on? I have a couple that just laid eggs in my community tank and am pretty sure a pair of juveniles have just paired off - I dont intend to breed either but figure if they survive then great, I dont expect them to since there are four plecos in the tank but I was wondering if the defensiveness from the parents will continue, get worse or subside?

Thanks
Maria

[MightyEvil]

First off, very nice tank! I like the natural look it has to it. Sorry to hear the little ones got all sucked up by the intake, sucks! When I used to breed guppies and africans, I had a 10 gallon tank with a very strong HOB filter rated for like 60 gallons and in order to keep the fry from being sucked in, I would use filter media wrapped around the intake. I would wrap it around a few times to make it nice and thick, this will create a larger surface area and prevent fry from sticking to it. You may want to try something like that next time and if too many survive, just give them away!

[pastry]

warlock - your spot on... i don't always have the biggest discus. that's sort of why i wanted the new filter. i knew that any new young discus i'd have still wouldn't reach it's full potential in growth (due to planted tank) but was hoping for at least an improvement in growth with a stronger filter. it seems that now i won't know until i get a few to survive OR i finally start slowly transitioning to the red rose and san merah-only tank that i'd like to have some day (love the mix but starting to think it'd look even more "natural" to have those type with maybe one striated discus as an accent piece)

malga - i only use the night light for when the fry were free swimming. i winked because i'm all about "whatever happens, happens" without doing anything extra for the tank yet i did cheat a little bit and left one little light on that side of the tank so for the parents and free swimmers :) warlock caught me on that one... ha!

mighty - thanks! i thought about that and have done it with HOB's in the past but since the fluval 405 is a little more costly than my old HOBs (i consider the 405 costly when compared to income) i'm just afraid of hurting the motor on it if i slow the flow down with an obstruction but it's still going at the same rate. i'm usually the first one to test it but on this one i had to put up a good argument for my wife to understand (and if i break it then back to the old HOBs for me). still might try it though! loved seeing those little boogers grow amongst the community!!!

[TURQ64]

Hi - new to discus let alone breeding, was wondering why a light on? I have a couple that just laid eggs in my community tank and am pretty sure a pair of juveniles have just paired off - I dont intend to breed either but figure if they survive then great, I dont expect them to since there are four plecos in the tank but I was wondering if the defensiveness from the parents will continue, get worse or subside?

Thanks
Maria

A low wattage lite on breeding tanks is an established, long time breeder's practice. Keeps the parents from getting nervous over the fry, for one thing...

[Maria Ashton]

Thanks guys, left a light on from a bookcase next to the tank so the parents could see. Really dont expect the eggs to hatch nor the fry survive but we will see.
Maria

[Eclipes]

more pics =]

[Ed Gray]

Still very cool no matter how big they are