Very SICK and needs help!!!!!!!!!!!

[wendy9722]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

About 2 months ago I noticed my one discus in community tank was losing weight so I dewormed it and the rest of the tank like I do approx every 2 months. As time has went by it has continued to lose more and more weight even though it was eatting. I have since moved it to another tank by itself with lots of fresh water all the time and try to get it to eat and just wont. It stays black and I mean black and continues to waste away.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

dark 24/7, not eating, clamped fins, stays in corner.




3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.
Salt, lots of fresh water, deworming flakes, 2 treatments of prazi pro (10 days)




Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish
Was in 100 gal community tank with 10 other discus
now in 46 gal by itself

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
1.5-2 years running, bare bottom, no I dont age my water but use prime


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __85___

- ph __7___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __20__

- nitrate reading _0___

- well water _n___

- municipal water __y__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently No nothing new

[Northwoods Discus]

Are the posted parameters on the established tank or the QT? If it is the QT then it is not cycled. You should not have high nitrites and no nitrates. If it is the established tank that is a problem also. I assume it is the qt so bigger water changes with aged water for starters.

[wendy9722]

Sorry I miss typed in wrong spots or something. The qt tank that its in has been up and running probably 2 months different in time from the 100 gal tank. I really didnt want to make this post but I'm at a loss on what to do to get it back to health. I'll start aging water as soon as I can find a spot for it. I might have to stick it outside with a cover to pull this off. My house is FULL!!!! of fish tanks.

[Northwoods Discus]

Just curious because a cycled tank should not have nitrites and they are the most toxic. The nitrites should be converted to nitrates in a cycled tank. Increased water changes should reduce the nitrites while the tank is catching up.

[Skip]

what was in qt tank.. for two months to keep it cycled? or did you move a filter that was seeded from somewhere else?

[Eddie]

Have you tried metro? At this point I would go for a round of metro, since it seems we are at wits end now. Another thought might be internal bacteria. What meds do you have on hand? Also, can you post a picture of the fish. Thanks

Eddie

[nc0gnet0]

I am thinking she meant her nitrates are 20 not her nitrites, otherwise the fish would be dead. Assuming as much, more frequent water changes are first on the bill to get the reading below 10ppm, preferably below 5ppm. How well did he eat the medicated flakes an exactly how is his/her appetite. Does it eat like a little pig or just a few bites? I beleive my first shot at treatment would be as Eddie suggeting (metro).

[wendy9722]

its appitite is now zero. I dont think it has ate for about 3 weeks or more/less. I just started a new job about a month ago and I dont have the time to watch like I used to or want to. I've been doing wc's every other day at 75%.
I dont have metro. I do have a hole cabinet full of different meds and a couple days ago someone had said to treat with tetracycline (pure). Sorry about messing up the origional post. I was up for over 24 hrs. I'm very very tired. I'm not used to working night shift yet. The filter was taken out for awhile for breeding then I moved them out and put it in the tank and did the 100% wc and put meds in to try to help it. So I'm guessing that your saying that my cycle is gone. But it still dont tell me why the rest of the community is doing great and this one is ready to drop off. I feel so bad for it that if I look at it for extended period of time it just makes me sick. I will post a pic in a little. I'm really ashamed of how bad it looks. I've never had one turn out this bad.

Edit: Where can I order it (metro) and what is the full name of it???

[wendy9722]

When I get near the tank she shows some color but once I step away she goes straight to black. But here she is.
The 4th & 5th pic is really bad because of the distance so you could see what she looks like when I step away.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/wendy9722/026-4.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/wendy9722/025-7.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/wendy9722/024-3.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/wendy9722/029-4.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/wendy9722/028-4.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

Yikes......prognosis for that fish is not good. Can we see pictures of your other fish in the tank? When you posted that your nitrites were 20, was that a typo meaning your nitrites were 2.0 or was it your nitrates that were 20?

[wendy9722]

I'm retesting right now and the NH3/NH4 is 0 (liquid test). nitrites is 0 (stick) and nitrates is 20ppm (stick). According to tests everything is safe. So the water is good. Now what can I do to help my very sick fish???

[wendy9722]

Ok I just checked my cabinet and I have Metronidazole. I hope that is what Eddie was talking about so I'm going to start that treatment here in a few minutes.

[jimg]

Wendy I think that fish has been sick for some time. I do not think you will be able to save it.
If you want to try I would use 400mg metronidazole and an anti bio I prefer oxytetracycline no filter 90% wc every day with redose of meds temp 84 for first 5 days then around 90 for last 5 1 tbs salt per 20 helps.
Jehmco has both meds
need to keep ph in low 7's or less

[Keith Perkins]

Wendy - metronidazole was definitely what Eddie was talking about when he mentioned metro. Poor little guy.

[nc0gnet0]

Wendy, if your nitrates are 20 it means you need to up your water changes a bit. I know it will be hard, but you really should consider culling this fish. In addition to the advance stages of razor backing, it is also showing signs of fin deterioration. Can you confirm this is the only fish showing this symptom? Very possible the fish's immune system is shot. Metro is the right treatment (along with an anti-biotic) but treatment should have taken place more than a month ago for any real chance of success.

[wendy9722]

I've been really tossing it in my mind about going ahead and culling it but everytime I go near the tank. She starts to color up and that tells me that there is still hope and that she trusts me to help her. I've asked my husband about what to do and he isnt willing to cull it because I dont have the heart to do it so I'm gonna try everything I can to help her out. If she passes away then I can at least say that I did try and will comfort me to some degree. She has been my fav from the start. When I used the prazipro that is when her fins started looking the way they are now(whitish tail and part of the upper back tail fins). I've gotta go to the store to get measuring spoons because mine has seemed to disappear. The metro I have is in a powder form that says to give 1/4 teaspoon per 40 gal for 10 days with a min of 25% wc. I am also gonna put the pure form of tetracycline hydrocloride powder in and has the same directions but I dont know how many days. I'm guessing 10 days with what Jim had commented. My ph is always at 7 or a little lower so that isnt a concern. Thanks everyone for your help!!!! I will be sure to keep everyone posted. This really breaks by heart that there is little chances of helping her out. I'm not sure that its a girl but by her size etc that is what I've concluded. I know these fish keep me really busy considering I'm raising about of 150 baby fry angels (approx pea size in total) and spawned again last night and the night before another pair spawned. I also did have free swimming discus attached to the parents for 4 days then dissappeared. So I dont know what happened there but thats the furthest I've made it in that department.

[wendy9722]

Well its been almost 24hrs of first day of treatment and nothing has changed yet. :(

[jimg]

Well its been almost 24hrs of first day of treatment and nothing has changed yet. :(
Wendy 400mg is about 1/4 tsp per 20 gallons. if it's going to work it will take about 5 days before you see any improvements. also keep tank covered they tend to jump with tetracycline and dark

[jimg]

Well its been almost 24hrs of first day of treatment and nothing has changed yet. :(
Wendy 400mg is about 1/4 tsp per 20 gallons. if it's going to work it will take about 5 days before you see any improvements. also keep tank covered they tend to jump with tetracycline and dark.
i don't think it will make it but at least you try

[wendy9722]

Hi Jim,
Yes I'm doing the 1/4 tsp per 40 gal of the metro and 2- 1/4 tsp of the tetracycline since 1/4 per 20 gal. She dont seem jumpy at all. Never has been either. She has been the "chillin" kind of discus and very friendly. Just stays in the corner unless I go near the tank then she looks at me. I want to try to feed her but I know that its useless at this time. Since she hasnt ate for me for at least 3 weeks. I'm so soooo worried about her but there is nothing more to do other than follow the directions I got for my meds and hope and Pray that she makes it through. If the meds do help her when should she want to start eatting??? or is there something else that I can add that will jump start her appetite?

[wendy9722]

Hey I just noticed in my community tank that some of my discus are shaking there heads and its not for spawning. What does that mean????
I dont see no scratching or skiddish movements just the shaking of heads.

[jimg]

Hi Jim,
Yes I'm doing the 1/4 tsp per 40 gal of the metro and 2- 1/4 tsp of the tetracycline since 1/4 per 20 gal. She dont seem jumpy at all. Never has been either. She has been the "chillin" kind of discus and very friendly. Just stays in the corner unless I go near the tank then she looks at me. I want to try to feed her but I know that its useless at this time. Since she hasnt ate for me for at least 3 weeks. I'm so soooo worried about her but there is nothing more to do other than follow the directions I got for my meds and hope and Pray that she makes it through. If the meds do help her when should she want to start eatting??? or is there something else that I can add that will jump start her appetite?

Do the metro at 1/4 per 20 do not feed. after 5 days get temp up. I give time for the bacteria to get weakened before raising temps that's why i wait 5 days. it may be ok to raise it now but i don't like to change what works for me. if it comes to the front when you walk near it then try to give it some fbw
If it don't make it i would immediately take it out and scope for flukes and look at intestines. use it to help your others.

[wendy9722]

Jim,
I dont have a scope to look at that kind of stuff or know of anyone that does. All others eat like pigs and are showing there colors just fine. So do you know anything about the shaking of heads???

[jimg]

Jim,
I dont have a scope to look at that kind of stuff or know of anyone that does. All others eat like pigs and are showing there colors just fine. So do you know anything about the shaking of heads???

when I go near my tanks some of them shake their heads like a dog waiting for a cookie to get some bh flake!
other than that I could be flukes, which could have weakened the one that is sick in the beginning. that is why I suggested a scope. even cheap scopes can help you find flukes. best and imo only way to be sure what they have or do not or what treatment works or don't is to scope one when it dies. otherwise we guess.
shaking heads could be from air bubbles, irritants in water etc I don't want you to think flukes right away as only issue.

[wendy9722]

Where can I order a cheap scope at???? Brand etc??

[TURQ64]

Amscope on ebay...zillions of them in all price ranges...Gary

[wendy9722]

well, just wanted to update you all. My hubby just culled the fish. Its fins started to really deteriorated, eyes distended, excess slime coat, was still very dark, but only difference was that it was staying in front of the tank. This totally shatters my heart!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all said a prayer for it and was done.

[Second Hand Pat]

Truly sorry Wendy :( Thee fish can really wiggle their way into our hearts. Hugs

[wendy9722]

thanks so much for the kind words. My hubby has been really trying to comfort me but I dont think he really understands my attachment to my fish. He thinks its a good thing because its now with God which is true and now its not suffering which is another key point. So its gonna take me some time to get over this one. Im in the process of doing wc's trying to keep myself calm. I didnt want him to do it while I was here but I guess he didnt hear that part.
I've got a ton of baby angels at this time and figured that they would be ready for some filtration but I found out not. I have 2 batches at this time. One is at pea size and the other tank is a bunch of free swimmers as of 2 days ago. I'm not sure who the parents are of the newest so I'm anxious to see what they turn out to be like. There is about 250 or more of them. Lost about 10-15. Not taking that loss too much to heart. I've had the discus for almost 2 years and was the fav of the bunch that I have. I'm just glad also that the other discus that was with it is showing no bad signs. If I lost them then I would be done with discus all together.