Why has it gotten so difficult to find dewormers?

[ericatdallas]

Fortunately I don't need it right now and I also have a stash of the stuff for emergencies, but it seems lately Levamisole and Flubendazole are harder to find.

Any ideas why? Other than the ink guy, who else sells the Flubendazole?

[LizStreithorst]

Flubendazol isn't used in veterinary medicine in this country. It comes from the UK. One of the sponsors on BIDKA sells it and can ship it here.

As for Levasol, my veterinarian believes that there are so many other choices now that it became no longer cost effective to produce. I don't know if that's the case or not. The Dairy Goat people sure miss it. Like us, they're not a large market but they are a market. I heard on NPR a while back that it was being used in the manufacture of some cocaine type drug. That people were showing up in hospitals with Levasol toxicity. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[seanyuki]

Hi Eric,

I got the Discus Wormer Plus (Flubendazole) from the UK.........Panacur(Fenbendazole) is easily available in the States.

here's the link.

http://shop1.actinicexpress.co.uk/shops/DiscusSouth/index.php?cat=Discus_Wormer_Plus&ActinicSID=638587a3b8d2b7578e501738bb0a693f

hth

[LizStreithorst]

My mistake. I always get the names of the two confused.

[jimg]

http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/ piperazine is my favorite after flubendazole

[seanyuki]

Hi Liz.....you got it right......Flubendazole can be added directly to the water and the food too........Fenbendazole (Panacur) only in foods and not in the water.......see u at the Nada 2012 show.:)




My mistake. I always get the names of the two confused.

[seanyuki]

Hi Jim.....are u using Waterlife Sterazin(Piperazine)?



http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/ piperazine is my favorite after flubendazole

[ericatdallas]

LOL, I guess I just have to keep up with the times. Just a few months ago, it seemed Levamisole was being recommended every other day on this forum and now we've moved on :P

Thanks for the link Francis.

Liz, yeah, I had seen the cocaine part too.

[jimg]

LOL, I guess I just have to keep up with the times. Just a few months ago, it seemed Levamisole was being recommended every other day on this forum and now we've moved on :P

Thanks for the link Francis.

Liz, yeah, I had seen the cocaine part too.

True! this month it seems to be pp!
that is why it is important to take advise from ones who actually use and see results other than the med of the month club

[jimg]

Hi Jim.....are u using Waterlife Sterazin(Piperazine)?
I get the piperazine from Al rm

[seanyuki]

Thanks Jim for the info.



I get the piperazine from Al rm

[LizStreithorst]

see u at the Nada 2012 show.:)

If I'm not there it'll be because I'm dead.

[seanyuki]

Hi Eric......try this place for Thomas Laboratories Worm Off (Piperazine) available in the States.

http://www.oakridgegamefarm.net/store/proddetail.php?prod=OAK-152

or Sergeant's Vetscription Worm Away Cat Wormer (Piperazine).......Ingredients:
Each capsule contains 140 mg piperazine (as citrate).

http://www.petco.com/product/112268/Sergeant-s-Vetscription-Worm-Away-Cat-Wormer.aspx

hth

[LizStreithorst]

I see piprazine all the time in pet stores and feed stores. Look in the dog/cat section of pet stores and in hog section of feed stores.

[jimg]

I see piprazine all the time in pet stores and feed stores. Look in the dog/cat section of pet stores and in hog section of feed stores.
It is easy to find. A long time ago I bought a bottle it for dogs but didn't know how to dose it. it's easier for me to get it from Al and follow directions

[ericatdallas]

Yeah, I've used piperazine, and I buy it from the farm supply stores.

[jimg]

Yeah, I've used piperazine, and I buy it from the farm supply stores.

How do you dose it?

[ericatdallas]

I guess it depends on the concentration and the form of it. I bought it in a liquid, looked for the concentration of active ingredient, and dosed the tank to the appropriate level as indicated by directions found on the internet (usually find 3-4 to correspond before dosing any medication).

Don't remember the exact numbers as the last time I used it was almost a year ago. Since then, no worm problems. I do have a stash of levamisole I bought a while back with a large order of other stuff just to save on shipping.

My main reason for asking is that I keep tabs of "staples" so when I need them I'm able to find the cheapest source. Also, in this forum and some others, I've found people looking for it which made me curious b/c I remember it being pretty easy.

[jimg]

I guess it depends on the concentration and the form of it. I bought it in a liquid, looked for the concentration of active ingredient, and dosed the tank to the appropriate level as indicated by directions found on the internet (usually find 3-4 to correspond before dosing any medication).

Don't remember the exact numbers as the last time I used it was almost a year ago. Since then, no worm problems. I do have a stash of levamisole I bought a while back with a large order of other stuff just to save on shipping.

My main reason for asking is that I keep tabs of "staples" so when I need them I'm able to find the cheapest source. Also, in this forum and some others, I've found people looking for it which made me curious b/c I remember it being pretty easy.
I hear ya" I always liked piperazine but saw many using levamosile but the stuff going around as well as the flubendazole I learned to stay away from(with exception to igo vermisol) the levamosile dose going around of 5g per 100 is wrong for discus. it's .90mg per 100. I remember I bought leavamosile a long time ago from a pig supply place, but at the time I was not into computers so I never knew this site and others existed to get correct doses. I think they are very similar in what/how they treat.
I have to say when I was getting good flubendazole it was one of the few things I had success with other than metro.

[ericatdallas]

You need 2ppm which is 2-2.5 mg per 1L of water (or 7.57 to 9.46 mg per gallon) which works out to be .757g - .946g per 100G for 100% levamisole. The farm stuff is 90% so it would be about 1g per 100G of water if you used Prohibit by Agrilabs.

I think the 5G version might come from the fact that the stuff sold as vermisol is only 7.5% active ingredient? Which would actually be too little still at 1ppm... (I think, if my quick math is right).

I'm all about saving money so I always look at farm places first for medication :)

I just picked up a cheap digital scale on eBay to measure stuff better. Hopefully it's accurate, I will need to find something to check it but I don't want to buy one of those calibration weights.

[atitagain]

I just picked up a cheap digital scale on eBay to measure stuff better. Hopefully it's accurate, I will need to find something to check it but I don't want to buy one of those calibration weights.

Eric, a large paperclip (plan no coating on it) weighs 1 gram.

[jimg]

You need 2ppm which is 2-2.5 mg per 1L of water (or 7.57 to 9.46 mg per gallon) which works out to be .757g - .946g per 100G for 100% levamisole. The farm stuff is 90% so it would be about 1g per 100G of water if you used Prohibit by Agrilabs.

I think the 5G version might come from the fact that the stuff sold as vermisol is only 7.5% active ingredient? Which would actually be too little still at 1ppm... (I think, if my quick math is right).

I'm all about saving money so I always look at farm places first for medication :)

I just picked up a cheap digital scale on eBay to measure stuff better. Hopefully it's accurate, I will need to find something to check it but I don't want to buy one of those calibration weights.

thanks for the info
I have been dosing according to Dr Yanong
as I copied and pasted below:
Roy Yanong, V.M.D. recommends the following for treating fish with internal parasites susceptible to Levamisole HCl:

"In answer to your question, the dosage rate for levamisole in a bath is 2 mg/L (2 ppm) for 24 hours (followed by 70-100% water change, and siphon the bottoms of the tanks), with repeat treatments necessary--retreat in 2-3 weeks, and probably one more time after that. This is regardless of size of fish."

The 2 mg/L dosage rate (of the active ingredient Levamisole) is currently (2007) the level being used by the scientific community. It effectively paralyzes Levamisole susceptible parasites at that concentration. Increasing the dosage level does not seem to have any greater effect. (Another good reason to avoid overdosing.) Paralysis of the worms takes place when that level of Levamisole is present in the host--your fish. Dr. Yanong recommends, whenever possible, trying to diagnose what parasite your fish are harboring prior to treatment. Work with an 'exotic pet' veterinarian, or a fish health specialist to insure you are treating with the right medication.
This is where the dose is wrong http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

[atitagain]

This is where the dose is wrong http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

Same place that I picked up my Flubendazole that seems to be dated because it's been completely ineffective. I moved over to Piperazine that I picked up from Rocky Mountain

[jimg]

may have mentioned the wrong med The one I had a problem finding the dose was not the levamosile, but the piperazine for dogs in a little bottle of dark drops

[jimg]

Same place that I picked up my Flubendazole that seems to be dated because it's been completely ineffective. I moved over to Piperazine that I picked up from Rocky Mountain
If its worms they have that should do it but I'm still thinking yours have flagellates with secondary bacterial. let me know Marc

[Sean Buehrle]

You need 2ppm which is 2-2.5 mg per 1L of water (or 7.57 to 9.46 mg per gallon) which works out to be .757g - .946g per 100G for 100% levamisole. The farm stuff is 90% so it would be about 1g per 100G of water if you used Prohibit by Agrilabs.

I think the 5G version might come from the fact that the stuff sold as vermisol is only 7.5% active ingredient? Which would actually be too little still at 1ppm... (I think, if my quick math is right).

I'm all about saving money so I always look at farm places first for medication :)

I just picked up a cheap digital scale on eBay to measure stuff better. Hopefully it's accurate, I will need to find something to check it but I don't want to buy one of those calibration weights.

A US nickel weighs exactly 5 grams


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ericatdallas]

A US nickel weighs exactly 5 grams


Eric, a large paperclip (plan no coating on it) weighs 1 gram.

Good to know. I guess I'm not measuring anything that requires any super-critical precision anyways and even if I did, I probably shouldn't rely on a $5 scale from China :P

US coins are probably the way to go :) Especially since I used to use a coin counting system at work where we weighed coins and it would be spot on (and if there were anomalous objects it would beep at us).

Just looked it up, Nickels are 5g and pennies are 2.5g :)

Thanks :)



This is where the dose is wrong http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

I used this site for my calcs...

http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

[jimg]

I used this site for my calcs...
Those doses were written by Yanong. I think you will find inkmaker states his dose on his web oredering page but shows this link which if you look at the two they are different

[jimg]

Yeah, I've used piperazine, and I buy it from the farm supply stores.
How were you dosing this? was it in liquid form?

[ericatdallas]

yeah, it was the liquid form.

If you give me the concentration, I can work out the amount you need for your tank.

[TURQ64]

I still use Levamisole, and get it from the pigeon folks. I purchase Fenbendazole and Prazi from Dr. Arthur Wells on ebay...good prices...I also have a tough time finding Flubendazole....our farm supplies around here have dried up on meds I can purchase and use for fish....

[seanyuki]

Anyone tried this product Sera med Professional Nematol as dewormer.

sera med Professional Nematol is particularly effective against Camallanus and round worms of the genus Capillaria, which mainly occur in angelfish and discus. It can also be optimally used against pinworms (Oxyurida), dreaded by discus keepers. At the same time it combats the small copepods that Camallanus uses as intermediate hosts.

Result: A well tolerated and highly effective ornamental fish treatment that can be sold freely is now available for the first time! It is a liquid and therefore can be dosed easily and precisely.

http://www.sera.de/en/products/freshwater-aquarium/treatments-and-vitamins/sera-med-professional-products/sera-med-professional-nematol.html

[jimg]

yeah, it was the liquid form.

If you give me the concentration, I can work out the amount you need for your tank.
I don't need the info anymore it was about 7 years ago i don't think it gave the concentration that's why I asked how you figured your dose. none of the ones I found at the time gave concentrations. like i said I now use piperazine from rm discus.

[ericatdallas]

It'll usually tell you a percent, ppm, or number of grams of active ingredient on the bottle. I think by US Law they have to state what's in it, but I could be wrong,...

For illustrative purposes, here's an example of some generic medication...

----------


Active Ingredients:
Each 100 mL or 3.33 fluid ounces contain 17 grams of <ingredient>
----------

17 grams for every 3.3oz, so that's 20.6g per bottle. 1G = 3.785L. 1L of water is approximately 1kg at STP. If I want 2ppm, then I need 2mg per liter.

So for 50G, that's 3.785*50 = 189L. So I need 378mg.

.378g/20.6g = 0.0188059701%

4 oz * 0.018806 = .075oz = 2.24mL

BTW, the above example of 17g per 100mL can also be stated as 17% solution of active ingredient.

100mL is about 100g, so 17/100 ~= 17% (that's how the calcs are done anyway).

[jimg]

It'll usually tell you a percent, ppm, or number of grams of active ingredient on the bottle. I think by US Law they have to state what's in it, but I could be wrong,...

For illustrative purposes, here's an example of some generic medication...

----------


Active Ingredients:
Each 100 mL or 3.33 fluid ounces contain 17 grams of <ingredient>
----------

17 grams for every 3.3oz, so that's 20.6g per bottle. 1G = 3.785L. 1L of water is approximately 1kg at STP. If I want 2ppm, then I need 2mg per liter.

So for 50G, that's 3.785*50 = 189L. So I need 378mg.

.378g/20.6g = 0.0188059701%

4 oz * 0.018806 = .075oz = 2.24mL

BTW, the above example of 17g per 100mL can also be stated as 17% solution of active ingredient.

100mL is about 100g, so 17/100 ~= 17% (that's how the calcs are done anyway).

Thanks Eric. I will keep this for future ref. metrics don't come to me easy!!
I looked for the bottle just for curiosity, I must have thrown it out .

[ericatdallas]

Thanks Eric. I will keep this for future ref. metrics don't come to me easy!!
I looked for the bottle just for curiosity, I must have thrown it out .

Yeah, it's a headache. You can kind of see why it's easier to just have metric, because it's pretty straightforward. 1mg = 1mL and 1000mg = 1g = 1L , etc. For work, it's a mish-mash of units and unit conversions for me :(

Just a heads up though, I know a lot of people don't know, but Google Search will do conversions for you.

Google Search Box -> Convert 1 gram to pounds

Also, does calculations

Google Search Box -> 2 +2

You can also do both....

Google Search Box -> convert (2 mg/L * 50 gallons) * (4 oz / 20.6g) to mL


and that gives you 2.173 mL (difference probably due to rounding error on my part for prev calc)

[jimg]

Yeah, it's a headache. You can kind of see why it's easier to just have metric, because it's pretty straightforward. 1mg = 1mL and 1000mg = 1g = 1L , etc. For work, it's a mish-mash of units and unit conversions for me :(

Just a heads up though, I know a lot of people don't know, but Google Search will do conversions for you.

Google Search Box -> Convert 1 gram to pounds

Also, does calculations

Google Search Box -> 2 +2

You can also do both....

Google Search Box -> convert (2 mg/L * 50 gallons) * (4 oz / 20.6g) to mL


and that gives you 2.173 mL (difference probably due to rounding error on my part for prev calc)

I usually do use the google calculators but the metric system just didn't sink in yet. it does seem much easier, I just haven't planted the basics in my head yet! thanks again

[TURQ64]

I'm not sure I understand the 1mg=1ml part of this. everything has a different specific gravity; 5ml of Hg will greatly outweigh 5ml of HCl.....why would volume and weight equate to the same thing?..Gary

[jimg]

I'm not sure I understand the 1mg=1ml part of this. everything has a different specific gravity; 5ml of Hg will greatly outweigh 5ml of HCl.....why would volume and weight equate to the same thing?..Gary

HA! HA! I know your not asking me that question Gary!!!

[ericatdallas]

I'm not sure I understand the 1mg=1ml part of this. everything has a different specific gravity; 5ml of Hg will greatly outweigh 5ml of HCl.....why would volume and weight equate to the same thing?..Gary

That was an oversight, but it's 1g per 1mL and it's for water. Since we were talking about water-based solutions, you can approximate that to be true. But your right, 1mL does not equal 1 gram if we're talking about molten uranium for instance. Fortunately for us, in the fish hobby, we deal with good old H2O.

But I can't remember which way it went, but the gram-to-mL conversion was intentional for water.

[ericatdallas]

... and while we're being particular, it's at STP :)

but again, the approximation is good enough except for applications that require the most extreme precision.

[TURQ64]

volume is volume, and weight is weight, regardless of what 'hobby' we're referring to.

[ericatdallas]

volume is volume, and weight is weight, regardless of what 'hobby' we're referring to.

Not really sure why you're being so strict on the terms here, especially since we established we were talking about aqueous solutions but uhmm okay...

For water, 1g = 1mL

For those of you who fill up your tanks with water, you can use that conversion.

I do understand where you're coming from though... honestly. So thanks for making me clarify :)

[ericatdallas]

volume is volume, and weight is weight, regardless of what 'hobby' we're referring to.

while we're being picky though, if you are an astronaut, weight varies with gravity. So you might have to tell the astronaut the mass in some applications.

[ericatdallas]

Good to know. I guess I'm not measuring anything that requires any super-critical precision anyways and even if I did, I probably shouldn't rely on a $5 scale from China :P


Measuring the same nickel several times, this is what I get, 5.03, 5.01, 4.97, 4.99, 4.98, 5.01 ... Did the same with a different nickel, same results. Left it on with no weight, zeroed it, and it shifted to -0.03g.

Needless to say, I don't need a high priced calibration weight to tell me that I probably shouldn't rely on this thing for precision greater than 0.1g.

Not that I was expecting that much of it. I'm relieved it's as good as it is to be honest. I ordered another scale for $7 that measures up to 1kg +/- 0.1g so hopefully it's that's good and not off by +/- 3g.

Just FYI in case any one wants to buy one of these. Good enough for the purposes I'm using it though.

[texasdiscusman]

And 1000mg = 1 gram .Also U.S. Bill ways 1 gram.For dry products you can use ppm\ %\1000 = gram per liter % means.percentage of active ingriedent