The ultimate Hobbyist California Blackworm Keeper

[DanCBW]

The ultimate Hobbyist California Blackworm Keeper, thanks
to Jose Dieck in IL.

Photos below thanks to Leo Ross , aka "roundfishross"

Dan
California Blackworm Co.

[roundfishross]

Dan ,
host to a site like photobucket. the photo's are too small to see

[DanCBW]

I am so much a Worm Guy, not a computer guy.
Dan

[roundfishross]

sending you a pm

[roundfishross]

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/roundfishross/7b0ff036.jpg
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/roundfishross/b83ac3a4.jpg

[roundfishross]

it took me a few minutes to get it figured out the zipped file woudnt load but I finally got it

[DanCBW]

Thanks Leo,
looks great.

Dan

From Jose in IL

The idea is to have a system to provide mechanical and biological filtration while providing circulation and make easy to harvest the worms. I have not tested it's full capacity but at the start it worked well with about 1/2 a pound of worms with no mortality.

The way it works is to re-circulate filtered water to a tray containing the worms. The tray provides for barriers (Bulkheads) to keep most of the worms from draining. The water is drained back to a section of the aquarium with some glass marvels were any worms draining down form colonies that can be easily extracted with a turkey baster. The marbels help prevent the worms floating out while at the same time are easier to clean than say, sand. The worms are further separated from the filtration system by a divider.

The filtration system consists of: a Fluval submersible filter to provide for mechanical and bio filtration with some carbon to prevent odors and water discoloration. A micron bag full of porous bio-media for added on biological filtration and finally an air wand (or air stone) to provide aeration.

The diagram can give a better idea of how it works. You can see from the pictures that I have little worms left :>)

The items used can be found at a Pet store and a Lowes or Home Depot.

1. Aquarium: 20 gal long

2. Stand: DIY with some closet shelving.

3. Tray: I found the tray at the kitchen section in Lowes, it is supposed to be used as an organizer for cutlery or utensils. There were many models, I selected this one because a) it provided for no dividers on one side which is convenient for the installation of a straight spray bar, b) the dividers within the tray are shorter than the sides of the tray so the water can overflow the sides without overflowing the tray, c) It has a four sided divided section convenient for the drain and d) Is expandable making it easy to fit the width on the top of aquarium frame.

4. Filter: Fluval U2

5. Powerhead: Maxijet 1200 although a smaller one can be used. The powerhead is held to the side of the aquarium using magnets, as I do not really trust the suction cups that come with it.

6. A micron bag used for chemical media

7. Bio-Media: Fluval large sized.

8. Air pump and air wand

9. Aquarium Divider cut to half height. The water level is kept about 1" above the top of the divider.

10. 1/2" insert valve to regulate the flow going into the tray and spray bar. Too much flow and the worms will overflow the tray dividers so it is adjusted to as much as it prevents the worms from overflowing. I feed the worms some small pellets a couple of times a week. When I feed I close the recirculation valve to stop the flow and prevent the worms to overflow because the worms get all excited and they swim around dislodged from their ball colonies.

11: The tray drain is made out of a 1" PVC threaded socket to male threaded adapter and a female to insert adapter plus a short length of 1" hose to the bottom of the aquarium. I cut the male adapter to adjust the height on the drain side so it is about 1/4" shorter than the height of the tray dividers.

12. Spray bar made of 1/2" PVC with 3/16" perforations every 1" One end is capped and the other has a male PVC adapter that screws to a 90* elbow PVC female to insert adapter trough a side hole cut on the tray, a soft silicon packing to seal any potential leaks.

13. I used 1/2" hose from the powerhead to the valve and from the valve to the spray bar. The powerhead comes with a short piece (nipple) that has a hole in it for an aeration hose. The piece that holds the fan like piece that provides for redirecting the flow. I used this nipple so the hole allows to keep circulation through the powerhead when the valve is partially closed so the powerhead do not overheats.

14. Transparent glass marbles which I got from the local hobby store. Got enough to cover the bottom of that section of the aquarium with two layers of marbles.


Let me know if you have any questions, Enjoy!

Jose

[ericatdallas]

Wow, nice, I think my wife would be okay with this more than worms in the refrigerator... hmm...

Is that aquarium divider porous or just a sheet of plexi/glass?

[roundfishross]

I balieve its just plexi glass, the worms might crawl through a perforated divider

[DiscusOnly]

Thanks for the post Dan. Do you know how the worms are fed? If worms are in room temp, wouldn't they need to eat or it will die off?

Van

[roundfishross]

Van the author says he feeds them small pellets a few times a week. I have always kept them at room temp in a 20g L. tank with lotts of airation if I want to culture them them toss in a small piece of burlap and feed them flake food every other day or so. the water will foul after feeding so they will need a water change. the most important thing I have found is that they need room to spread out if they have to bunch up too much they will die off. I can keep two to three lbs in a 20 g L.

[DiscusOnly]

Van the author says he feeds them small pellets a few times a week. I have always kept them at room temp in a 20g L. tank with lotts of airation if I want to culture them them toss in a small piece of burlap and feed them flake food every other day or so. the water will foul after feeding so they will need a water change. the most important thing I have found is that they need room to spread out if they have to bunch up too much they will die off. I can keep two to three lbs in a 20 g L.

Thanks for the reply Leo.

I've tried 2 lbs on an 180gal with sands and CRS last year but they eventually died off after 1 month. I had lots of circulation in the tank (2 eheim 2026 and 2 ac110 along with air stones). Maybe they did not get enough food cause the tank was too big. I was looking to try to culture them again this winter so I may try this DIY with a 50 gallons tank.

Van

[roundfishross]

yeah, when you feed em prime reef flakes they turn a nice red color!:D I usually stock a cluture alot lighter than I mentioned in the earlier post. they dont reproduce really fast even when you break them up from time to time. so I always end up running out. if you only had a few fish it might work.this book has a little info on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0793806550/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=2715554431&ref=pd_sl_94dv48elda_e

Leo

[Apistomaster]

Very nice set up.
I think it would work just as well using a MaxiJet 600 since you are throttling back the flow of the MaxiJet 1200 anyway.
The flow rate would be enough to keep the biological filtration working well and drive the spray bar.

[jimg]

do you keep that in a refrigerator?

[roundfishross]

its not mine but I do believe its kept at room temp

[jimg]

its not mine but I do believe its kept at room temp
this is for breeding them? cold is for saving them? even if it's not yours your answers will do!

[ericatdallas]

I think this seems like a good way to possibly create a mini-culture --- which is exactly what I was thinking, but not sure it's worth the effort.

Speculating on some improvements --- larry started it ;)

It's fun to day-dream about new toys at least :P

-- Instead of marbles, how about egg crate/light diffusers stacked on top? This makes it easier to harvest them from the bottom?
-- A rack system so you can keep two racks
-- WC system and/or continuous drip
-- Java moss to help with nitrates
-- Drill a hole and add a venturi system to get rid of the air pump
-- cut the overflow pipe in half, it doesn't need to reach the bottom, silicone it and let it hang above the surface of the water (additional water agitation)

BTW, please don't take these suggestions as criticism... the author was definitely a lot more creative than I was, hindsight is 20/20, I don't actually know these modifications are for the better, and I'm just having fun thinking about it.

[Darrell Ward]

Jim, I believe this is an alternative way of keeping them, not breeding. I've not tried this, but it looks to be a much better way of keeping them than in cold storage. I see the advantages as being able to keep them healthier much longer, and being able to gut load them before feeding them to fish. I'm definitely going to build one myself, but with a larger capacity in order to keep at least 3-4 pounds at a time. Perhaps with a 55 gal. sump, and much larger tray. That would save a lot of money on shipping costs over time.

[jimg]

Jim, I believe this is an alternative way of keeping them, not breeding. I've not tried this, but it looks to be a much better way of keeping them than in cold storage. I see the advantages as being able to keep them healthier much longer, and being able to gut load them before feeding them to fish. I'm definitely going to build one myself, but with a larger capacity in order to keep at least 3-4 pounds at a time. Perhaps with a 55 gal. sump, and much larger tray. That would save a lot of money on shipping costs over time.
Thanks Darrell I'll keep my eye on this one. I take it keeping them cold was only to keep them fresh?

[roundfishross]

they will divide they really dont breed that I know of (it's a sexual)this is why breaking the worms will speed up the process. the contraption is just a fancy keeper. I'm pretty sure the cold just keeps them from being hungry and fouling the water. ime the tank will get pretty slimy so the water changes are a must. I mainly keep my worms in a setup with water and lots of air because I dont have the extra room in the fridge for several pounds of worms.

[ericatdallas]

Not sure why making a few adjustments to accommodate or modify the procedures outlined on this site wouldn't work?
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/livefood_cultures/blackworms_cultures.shtml

I suppose you might have population crashes every now and then, but hey, you have a reliable supplier to refill it. Also, not sure what their reproduction rate is, but you might not be able to grow enough to feed all your fish <shrug>. Not sure.

I think with the right adjustments, you could probably keep them long enough to offset some of the cost of equipment. Your reproduction rate might be < 1, but it's a good way of storing a lot of works and maybe getting some additional value out of your order.

I think the worms are already pretty reasonably priced. The biggest draw for me is getting this stuff out of the refrigerator so wife won't complain. I suppose I could always pick up a used mini-refrigerator on eBay too.

[Darrell Ward]

Yes. Water changes are definitely in order here. Even when keeping them cold, which slows down their metabolism, the water gets dirty, so filtration and water changes would be a must on such a system, as would breaking down the system and cleaning it, with bleach perhaps. In between shipments would probably be a good time for this. I agree Eric, the worms are reasonably priced. The big thing is the shipping cost. The advantages of this for me would allow me to buy more worms at one time in order to save on the shipping costs.

[ericatdallas]

I did some reading on it, another plus is you can get rid of scrap veggies (as long as it doesn't break up). Of course, you could always just do red wigglers in that case.

I really think I might have to try to figure out how to do this...

I think I read these guys are very sensitive to chlorine so you should use old aquarium water or RO water right? Would dechlorinating this and then aging it 24 hours be sufficient? Or did I misread, mis-remember this, and they're not very sensitive to chlorine at all?

[roundfishross]

I did some reading on it, another plus is you can get rid of scrap veggies (as long as it doesn't break up). Of course, you could always just do red wigglers in that case.

I really think I might have to try to figure out how to do this...

I think I read these guys are very sensitive to chlorine so you should use old aquarium water or RO water right? Would dechlorinating this and then aging it 24 hours be sufficient? Or did I misread, mis-remember this, and they're not very sensitive to chlorine at all?

cant help you with that one. I have very soft well water.

[Apistomaster]

they will divide they really dont breed that I know of (it's a sexual)this is why breaking the worms will speed up the process. the contraption is just a fancy keeper. I'm pretty sure the cold just keeps them from being hungry and fouling the water. ime the tank will get pretty slimy so the water changes are a must. I mainly keep my worms in a setup with water and lots of air because I dont have the extra room in the fridge for several pounds of worms.

DO NOT BREAK THE WORMS!!!
The pieces will just die and cause the rest of the worms to die from the pollution the dead worms cause.
Black worms are Annelid worms; same family as Earth Worms and they breed sexually although some are capable of asexual reproduction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelid

The whole point of the system is to keep larger quantities of them at room temperature but their reproduction rate won't come close to becoming self-sustaining. If you want to have a self sustaining culture, use some sand and the worms which escape in the fishes aquarium will establish colonies and when you hydrovacuum the substrate into a bucket the worms will ball up and may be recycled as food again.

[roundfishross]

DO NOT BREAK THE WORMS!!!
The pieces will just die and cause the rest of the worms to die from the pollution the dead worms cause.
Black worms are Annelid worms; same family as Earth Worms and they breed sexually although some are capable of asexual reproduction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelid

The whole point of the system is to keep larger quantities of them at room temperature but their reproduction rate won't come close to becoming self-sustaining. If you want to have a self sustaining culture, use some sand and the worms which escape in the fishes aquarium will establish colonies and when you hydrovacuum the substrate into a bucket the worms will ball up and may be recycled as food again.

actually Larry,
if you do a little research you will find they DO BREAK THE WORMS!!!! at the black worm farm. they reproduce by splitting. the little pieces will not die but instead become theyre own little worm! the worm's sexual reproduction is very little if not all together non existant.

I couldnt find the thread but somewhere here on the forum I have seen pictures of the actuall rake the farm uses to break the worms and I think Al was the one who posted it

[TURQ64]

Leo, how deep is the water in your worm tank??

[roundfishross]

Gary it doesnt really matter. I typically keep it about half full so I dont have to get my whole arm wet to fish the worms out but if they have pleanty of air they will not suffocate in deep water.

[TURQ64]

I'll give it a try today, new order......thanks

[roundfishross]

Arrrrrr!

[ericatdallas]

actually Larry,
if you do a little research you will find they DO BREAK THE WORMS!!!! at the black worm farm. they reproduce by splitting. the little pieces will not die but instead become theyre own little worm! the worm's sexual reproduction is very little if not all together non existant.

I couldnt find the thread but somewhere here on the forum I have seen pictures of the actuall rake the farm uses to break the worms and I think Al was the one who posted it

Yup, Leo is right according to this site: http://www.allaboutworms.com/california-blackworm-farms-how-to

Apparently, according to that site, they double every 34 weeks. So probably not fast enough for most hobbyist that feed heavily with these guys unless they build it big enough.

How much, how often, do you feed these for your fish? When I had a local pet store that sold live foods, I usually only did once a week. The local LFS here actually told me they don't recommend live food because it spoils the fish. I definitely can see where they're coming from, my discus are pretty finickly eaters. I have them adjusted to all types of food, but introducing a new one, and they turn their nose at it.

[roundfishross]

typically a round per day,my fish will eat pretty much anything you toss in the tank they get flake, bh/sf mix, fbw's,pellets. fry get fed eight plus times daily. adults twice daily.

[Darrell Ward]

Well, I threw a "keeper" together today in about 10 mins. with stuff I had lying around, because I just had 2 lbs. of blackworms delivered to the door. It's a little crude I know, but seems to work OK, and I'll improve it later. It's made from a 55 gal. tank, and 29 gal. storage box. I'm going to throw a bag of carbon in there when I get to town. I didn't have any. The sponge filter and sponge lying in the bottom are cycled for bio. You may wonder why there is a scrap piece of foam over the overflow? Well, I needed a ball valve, didn't have one, so I put that there to slow the flow, and prevent "flushing". Ugly, but works! Man, I could put 5 lbs. in there!

[Darrell Ward]

24 hours later, I'm liking the worms in the keeper. Did a 100% waterchange, and all is well. It's a lot easier changing water than rinsing all those worms. I also crushed up a few Hikari cichlid pellets I had lying around, maybe they will eat them. They have much better color, and of course, are much more lively than in cold storage. Amazing how fast they can wiggle when at room temp, and not cold. You start to get an idea of their habits, by their movements in the tank. Interesting that they seem to like to cluster in big groups for example.

[ericatdallas]

This is just a though... more of my ramblings :P

But I was looking at random stuff on Craigslist to see what I can repurpose and I came up with an idea of maybe using a baby bathtub... not sure yet, I'll have to look at my kid's tub when I get a chance. Ours is a little more well-constructed (costly) but it looks like you can pick up some cheapos for $5 on CL or $15-20 new.

Anyway, they are angled, so instead of using a utility tray, maybe someone who is trying to create a large one could set it on top of a tub and have the overflow drain from the top of the tub. Or build a compartment/box at the top of the tub and have water flow from the top, flow from the bottom, and then drain near the base. The water movement might help keep the worms cleaner.

[Darrell Ward]

The worms themselves so far stay very clean with circulating water, although you will differently have to do daily water changes, and use carbon, because they excrete some type of slime. I used the old container because it already had a bulkhead installed, it was a former sump, and I had it lying around. The tub sounds like a good idea.

[Darrell Ward]

Update: There don't seem to be much interest in this, but I'm telling you, if you feed live blackworms, this is by far the best way to keep them. With the addition of a jar of carbon placed in a mesh bag from Walmart LOL!, the water is staying much clearer than before, (the first day I had no carbon) and absolutely no smell at all. I'm going to skip the water change today. The worms are clean, they eat, and are overall much better in every aspect than keeping them cold. This is a great idea! Thanks Dan! I wish I had been doing this all along.

[nwehrman]

I'm going to have to set something up too. Didn't like in the fridge.... Hmmm-- thinking over the possibilities.

[DiscusOnly]

Update: There don't seem to be much interest in this, but I'm telling you, if you feed live blackworms, this is by far the best way to keep them. With the addition of a jar of carbon placed in a mesh bag from Walmart LOL!, the water is staying much clearer than before, (the first day I had no carbon) and absolutely no smell at all. I'm going to skip the water change today. The worms are clean, they eat, and are overall much better in every aspect than keeping them cold. This is a great idea! Thanks Dan! I wish I had been doing this all along.

Thanks for the update. I am definitely going to give this a try.

Van

[ericatdallas]

Update: There don't seem to be much interest in this, but I'm telling you, if you feed live blackworms, this is by far the best way to keep them. With the addition of a jar of carbon placed in a mesh bag from Walmart LOL!, the water is staying much clearer than before, (the first day I had no carbon) and absolutely no smell at all. I'm going to skip the water change today. The worms are clean, they eat, and are overall much better in every aspect than keeping them cold. This is a great idea! Thanks Dan! I wish I had been doing this all along.

I'm interested. My problem is total lack of time... I only have half my tanks up and running and my poor neglected discus are in an overcrowded tank right now. I'm setting up my fish room but it's taking more time than I have right now so this is going to have to be on my "like-to-do one day" list.

[LizStreithorst]

I'll be doing it once my fish room is up and going and I have a spare penny to spend. The fish room build is kicking my financial ***. But the Discus DO need live CBWs. I haven't ordered them for months. Dang money...I need to quit my Honduran cigar habit for the sake of my fish. I hate to give up a pleasurable vice...

[Apistomaster]

I think you get double benefits from using a bag of carbon in a room temp worm keeper.
Carbon adsorbs many organic wastes and quickly become colonized with biological filter bacteria so you get a "two fer" thing going on.
I need a cooler place to try this but fed worms are far more nutritious than cold stored starved worms.

I try to get a couple pounds of worms every two weeks but the schedule varies a lot. I value how the Discus benefit from them but I have also bred and raised many Discus that never saw a live worm. I have gotten by on a diet of earth worm sticks, frozen blood worms and an occasional feeding of Tetra Color Bits. My F1 Nhamunda blues have been raised on mainly these foods with black worms added when I have them.

[x2h]

is brulap or brown paper towel really needed in culturing CBW? I added Tetra color bits as food, is that enough? My set up is very simple, I picked up a $5 big storage bin from Target and added about 2 in of water, threw in an airstone to agitate water, and put the worms in. I change water every couple days. Feed the worms with the pellet foods. I do use brown paper towel currently, but I am wondering if I can do away without using it.

[Rummy]

I want to try out this wormkeeper. Does anyone know what their maximum temperature tolerance is? It gets quite warm here. Whithout the a/c on, it can easily reach 80 degrees in the house.

[TURQ64]

I throw 2 lbs. in a rubbermaid clear plastic bin with around 20g of water in it.Lotsa air, (no burlap or anything, they ball up naturally) same cleaning regimen...room temp is easy eighties, water maybe mid 70's..they do fine...

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, they are hardy little buggers. Temps. don't seem to affect them much, they just stop moving if it gets too cold. I've had the water freeze over before while keeping them in a POS fridge, and it didn't hurt them. Temps in the eighties are probably no big deal either. They don't need the paper, just feed them a little fish food. I've been feeding them crushed Hikari Massivore that I use to feed to Peacock Bass, and they make it disappear in a few hours.

[Darrell Ward]

Even as the new frozen worms are becoming the rage, I've tried to keep a few live worms left in the keeper more than a couple of weeks to see how long they would last. Well, 22 days so far, and they are as lively and fresh as when I put them in. I don't know how long these things live, but I'm convinced that you can keep them until they die off naturally at the end of their life cycle.

[roundfishross]

Darrell,
you should start seeing small worms as they divide and multiply.

[Darrell Ward]

I have seen a few small worms in there, but they get sucked up along with the rest in the turkey baster. :D

[Darrell Ward]

Fresh, live, 2 lbs. supply. Thanks Dan! Discus gourmet buffet! :)

[nc0gnet0]

Intersting concept. I have something simular although it looks a bit different. My setup consists of a constant flow of clean water from my RO waste water so I do not worry about biological filtration.

[gabloo]

What if i put them in 5g buckets and do water change everyday or every other day?

[Chad Hughes]

Here's my version... :D

Basic setup consists of two bus tubs set in to a table, a 20 gallon sump with a piece of poret foam as a filter/divider, a recirculation pump.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n553/SanDiegoDiscus/wormfarm3.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n553/SanDiegoDiscus/wormfarm2.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n553/SanDiegoDiscus/WormFarm1.jpg

This system holds 10 lbs easily!

[ericatdallas]

Nice chad. I might steal part of your concept! :)

[Chad Hughes]

Steal away!

The hardest part of this setup was building the stand. It's custom built to fit the tubs.


Nice chad. I might steal part of your concept! :)

[ericatdallas]

Where do you buy those tubs? I was actually trying to find those and didn't see it at home depot or lowes.

[ericatdallas]

nvm,, found something similar at farm supply store :)

[DanCBW]

Heres a link to another great looking California Blackworm Keeper.
Too many photos to copy and post.
http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=410469

Dan
California Blackworms Co.

[nwehrman]

Intersting concept. I have something simular although it looks a bit different. My setup consists of a constant flow of clean water from my RO waste water so I do not worry about biological filtration.

I would like to see a picture of your setup if possible?

[knd]

I've been keeping a population of tubifex worms in a 1L critter carrier for a couple of months now. I started with 2oz., I do 100% RO water changes 3x week, feed them a couple of pulverized flakes each week, and the Discus get all the worms they can eat once each day (supplemented with flakes which they're not too fond of). I'm sure my population is not stable, but it always looks like there are enough! My question is, does anyone know what the bio-load would be if I just dumped them into the 60 gal with the Discus? I'm sure the Discus would have some fun hunting the little guys down, but I'm afraid of stressing the system.

[Skip]

I've been keeping a population of tubifex worms in a 1L critter carrier for a couple of months now. I started with 2oz., I do 100% RO water changes 3x week, feed them a couple of pulverized flakes each week, and the Discus get all the worms they can eat once each day (supplemented with flakes which they're not too fond of). I'm sure my population is not stable, but it always looks like there are enough! My question is, does anyone know what the bio-load would be if I just dumped them into the 60 gal with the Discus? I'm sure the Discus would have some fun hunting the little guys down, but I'm afraid of stressing the system.

this probably deserves its own thread since tubifex is not a Blackworm.. it would enable you to get answers faster.. for your question

ps.. welcome to sd