How often and how much water to change on a 90 gallon planted tank

[msharper]

Pretty straight forward question but I know I will get ripped by some die hards on here who think daily and large WC's are an absolute must but I've heard of people near me keeping wilds in 75 gallon planted tanks and only doing 30% PWC every two weeks??? What are your thoughts on this practice?

[Second Hand Pat]

Best way to tell is to go look at those discus getting a 30% WC every two weeks. It would not surprised me that those discus could be on a slow decline to death. Personally I do 50% every other day (not juvies yet). If I see an issue the WCs are upped to every day.

[H2Ochanger]

What you'll probably hear is this: daily, large-volume water changes are considered necessary to properly grow out juvenile discus. If you're keeping adult discus, you can get by with less. I have an "adults only" 120 planted tank (although it is low-tech, low light), and I do 2 water changes per week, roughly 50% per change.

[msharper]

Okay that makes sense. Are you doing the water changes to eliminate nitrates or is there more to it than that. (adult discus wise)

[H2Ochanger]

Yes, since I don't have fast-growing plants, I don't count on them to suck up too much nitrogenous waste, or at least not as fast as I would like for these fish.

[msharper]

So what your saying is I should base my water changes on my tanks Nitrate level and not so much on just routine. Example: 1 week no WC Nitrates reading 0~5 then no water change needed. Does that seem logical?

[H2Ochanger]

That's how I would look at it. Of course, I'm still expected the "ripping" comments that you mentioned. ;)

[msharper]

Oh don't worry the "ripping" is coming. Sometimes I feel people do water changes because it makes THEM more comfortable not so much for the fish. ;)

[lipadj46]

Is your tank high tech or low? What kind of substrate? Do you fertilize or inject CO2? How big are these discus? If you have adults, your nitrates stay low and you make sure to get all the mulm out from the base of the plants on a regular basis (that is the main issue with a planted tank imo, trapped detritus) then I would personally do no less than 50% water changes per week.

[gerrard00]

It's easy to be skeptical about water chances. I was when I first started reading this forum. Now I'm doing daily water changes for my juvies. What changed my opinion? Watching my fish after I started doing more frequent changes. As someone mentioned, frequent water changes might not be as necessary with adults, but they make a huge difference with juveniles.

[aalbina]

I think maybe folks are just tired of this question so I'm not sure you're going to get any ripping. I do 70% WC every other day. My nitrates never go over 5ppm, so based on nitrates alone I probably don't need this regiment. Based on my experience, my now adult fish are more colorful, more active, and appear healthier than when I did fewer water changes. All other variables being arguably constant - I attribute their health, appearance and behavior on maintaining quality water through water changes. Just my experience. There are a lot of variables in husbandry - I choose to eliminate the ones that are easy to control.

Adam



Oh don't worry the "ripping" is coming. Sometimes I feel people do water changes because it makes THEM more comfortable not so much for the fish. ;)

[msharper]

I agree for juveniles frequent water changes (daily) look like an absolute must. My tank is low tech, low light, I do daily Excel, no CO2, heavily planted, substrate is about an inch and a half of pool filter sand. I'm leaning towards buying adults because I don't feel ready to start with juveniles.
How do you post pictures? I'll post a pick now.

[msharper]

68376
Okay I figured it out. Here it is. What do you think?

[lipadj46]

looks good, keep eye on the sand for anaerobic pockets (black sand). Definitely do not get juvies or anything under 5" as they are super sensitive. I would still do at minimum 1 50% water change a week (if not twice a week at first as the fish settle in). Water changes are good for plants too.

[msharper]

Thanks sounds great. I can handle twice a week. I'm doing 30% twice a week now like you mentioned, for the plants;)
Is anyone else having success with adult Discus doing as little as 2 x 30% per week?

[Darrell Ward]

I've been doing 50% water changes every other day for many years without any problems, on tanks ranging from 55 to 300 gals over the years, and fish ranging from fry to adults of several years of age.

[judy]

I probably shouldn't admit this. But I do 50% once a month in my 78 gallon. Heavily planted (all in pots) and triple the filtration required for the water volume, and the fish are big adults that continue to grow slowly. Nitrates are always below 10, even just before a WC.

[msharper]

I probably shouldn't admit this. But I do 50% once a month in my 78 gallon. Heavily planted (all in pots) and triple the filtration required for the water volume, and the fish are big adults that continue to grow slowly. Nitrates are always below 10, even just before a WC.

That's it Judy! That's the kind of honesty I was looking for. I am currently running 2 x Eheim 2213 with pretty much only bio media + an Aquaclear 50 that I use for Purigen and the likes to remove tannins from the water etc. Judy what kind of filtration do you run on your 78 gallon?

[steakman]

My younger brother has 4 adult discus, and 6 Ram in his 75 gallon tank.

He does a 50% WC every 2 weeks without any problem.

He bought them 2 years ago when they were about 4+in., and now they are almost 7in. TL.

They are as healthy as any discus would be, big, and thick girth, with very nice color. He feeds them exclusively high quality Flakes, Granules, Pellets, 2x/day and nothing else, no frozen, dried or whatever.

His filters are 2 Eheim Professional II 2026 facing each other on the 2 sides of the tank.

[msharper]

My younger brother has 4 adult discus, and 6 Ram in his 75 gallon tank.

He does a 50% WC every 2 weeks without any problem.

He bought them 2 years ago when they were about 4+in., and now they are almost 7in. TL.

They are as healthy as any discus would be, big, and thick girth, with very nice color. He feeds them exclusively high quality Flakes, Granules, Pellets, 2x/day and nothing else, no frozen, dried or whatever.

His filters are 2 Eheim Professional II 2026 facing each other on the 2 sides of the tank.

That is a nice filtration set up. I would think that would be to much water current for Discus. Where has your brother positioned the outflow from the filters?

[3dees]

I do a 60-70% wc every 5 or 6 days for my wilds. low tech with only floating plants. can't get a reading for nitrates.

[steakman]

That is a nice filtration set up. I would think that would be to much water current for Discus. Where has your brother positioned the outflow from the filters?

The outflows are facing each other on the 2 sides of the tank.

He reduces the pressure by enlarging the holes. The fish are swimming without any hesitance. Pool sand bottom with some flake plants and smooth face rocks.

[msharper]

The outflows are facing each other on the 2 sides of the tank.

He reduces the pressure by enlarging the holes. The fish are swimming without any hesitance. Pool sand bottom with some flake plants and smooth face rocks.
Thanks. That sounds like a nice simple set up.

[judy]

That's it Judy! That's the kind of honesty I was looking for. I am currently running 2 x Eheim 2213 with pretty much only bio media + an Aquaclear 50 that I use for Purigen and the likes to remove tannins from the water etc. Judy what kind of filtration do you run on your 78 gallon?

I run two Aquaclear 110s and an Aquaclear 30 for specific media like Chemipure, plus a large sponge filter... I just prefer HOBs for ease of cleaning filter media. The plants grow like mad, especially the floating limnophilia, and always need pruning when I do a WC.

[ihor]

I've got a 75 gallon planted (jungle val, corkscrew val, several types of swords, limnophila, sunset hygro and some short crypts). Fish include 8 rummy nose, 8 rosy tetras, 4 corys 2 dwarf bristlenose, 1 striped botia, and 4 pygmy chain loaches (one was born in tank!!!! and just discovered - now 1/2 inch long). Discus include 2 MATED pairs of discus - both males are blue diamonds and females are red turqioise. I get almost non-stop breeding up through free-swimming fry that ultimately get devoured. Filtration includes two Rena's. Water changes - 25 gallons ONCE every 2 weeks.. Asolutely no issues with any of the fish. The discuss were raised from 50cent piece size - there were 5 but th 5th turned into the od man out (yet was te largest of the blue diamonds) and I had to sell. I am curious how many of the folks who so strongly recommend changing huge amounts of water every day or every two minutes have actually tried to cut back. I would wager that unless they feed excessively and don't have good filtration, their fish would probably do just as well with once a week water changes. Folks should try it. Should be quickly obvious is fish start becomming stressed. I once wound up waiting 4 weeks (becuae of a variety of unforseen family events) and it wasn't until the end of the 3rd week that fish were appearing to be not so happy. Did a 30 gallon water change and one of the pairs laid eggs the next day! With my well established planted tank and two filters (I alternate their cleaning), I don't even bother testing water any more. One less chore to do and more time just enjoy the fish. So my bottom line based soley on my experience, a good sized water change every two weeks might be fine. As lots of folks have said, you gotta watch the fish.

[jimg]

I have done both ways and will stick with heavier wc's. keep in mind most depends on water make up, harder water can go longer, planted tanks can go longer,feed types and amounts etc. There is a major difference when I do daily wc's with fry/juveniles.
My take on letting the fish tell you is by that time it may be too late.

[ihor]

I probably shouldn't admit this. But I do 50% once a month in my 78 gallon. Heavily planted (all in pots) and triple the filtration required for the water volume, and the fish are big adults that continue to grow slowly. Nitrates are always below 10, even just before a WC.

Why not admit it. That means yopu ahve a healthy tank and your fish are fine!

[msharper]

Ihor, I think you have pretty much summed it up! I love your philosophy and style man!

[Darrell Ward]

My water is so soft, it doesn't even read on a hobby test kit. If I skimp on water changes, my PH will fall off the charts and crash, big time!

[judy]

Oh, I check my Ph periodically, along with all the other parameters. I don't like it below 6.5. If it gets close to that, I do a large WC.

[ihor]

Oh, I check my Ph periodically, along with all the other parameters. I don't like it below 6.5. If it gets close to that, I do a large WC.

I decided to check my water quality using a quick strip. My last water change was one week ago and next planned one will be next weekend. Using a test striip, nitrate between 0 and 20 ('safe; range on the test strip), nitrite is 0, hardness is between 70 and 150 (soft and hard, respectively), total chlorine is 0, total alkalinity is between 120 and 180 ('ideal'), and pH is between 6.2 and 6.8 (closer in color to 6.2). Again, all fish are doing fine one the one discuss pair is nicely protecting the eggs, which should hatch out today. As background, all my fish are from a local breeder, i use chicago Lake Michigan tap water that id dechlorinated and kept in one gallon milk jugs between water changes (I hate carrying them up from the basement!!). I have lots of drftwood in the tank, much of it oak and maple branches that I've collected from my yard, soaked, boiled and scrubbed before placing in the tank.

One more thought about daily huge water changes. I just wonder how many folks who do huge daily water changes have ever tried a less vigorous WC schedule? I would guess that most folks, and especially newbies, see all the direction that you have to do tha for your discuss to survive, and do just that. It was that kind of advice that kept me from trying discuss for many years. I finally saw some 3 inch juveniles on sale at my local shop, and tought I would give them a try with my usual tank regime (worse case scenario would be that I would sell the fish back to the shop because I do not want to be doing water changes all the time - I'd rather be watching my fish and enjoying the tank). One final thought, how often is the water changed fro wild caught fish ontheir journey's from native riverine habitats in South America, in small containers on local boats to local airports to larger airports to the US then through customs then to dealers and shops? I have no idea, but I would guess that those fish don't get 70% water changes every day, yet make it thousands of miles from their homes to our tanks. HOw many die during transit? Don't knwo, maybe lots. Point is, while discus are undoubtably sensitive fish and daily water changes are good things, these fish are also adaptable and have some range of environmental tolerance, otherwise they would never have even made it to the aquarium industry.

I guess my rant really is about established hobbyists insisting to new discuss owners that they MUST do huge daily water changes. I would rather that we tell newbies 'look, daily water changes work, and if you don't mind all the work and effort, then go for it. But, these fish can do well with less rigorous maintenance that you shouldn't be afraid to try doing water changes less frequently. But when doing so, make sure you do watch your fish, don't overfeed, have good water circulation and temperature control, and a physical tank setup that te fish like! Hey, that's what we follow for all aquariium fish, isn't it? Obviously, the smaller your tank and the more fish you have (or the more feedings you do, the more you'll have to watch things and the more freuent or larger water changes you will likely have to do.

So as to not further annoy folks - do what you feel you need to for your fish, just make sure you take time out to enjoy them between water changes!

[Sean Buehrle]

I decided to check my water quality using a quick strip. My last water change was one week ago and next planned one will be next weekend. Using a test striip, nitrate between 0 and 20 ('safe; range on the test strip), nitrite is 0, hardness is between 70 and 150 (soft and hard, respectively), total chlorine is 0, total alkalinity is between 120 and 180 ('ideal'), and pH is between 6.2 and 6.8 (closer in color to 6.2). Again, all fish are doing fine one the one discuss pair is nicely protecting the eggs, which should hatch out today. As background, all my fish are from a local breeder, i use chicago Lake Michigan tap water that id dechlorinated and kept in one gallon milk jugs between water changes (I hate carrying them up from the basement!!). I have lots of drftwood in the tank, much of it oak and maple branches that I've collected from my yard, soaked, boiled and scrubbed before placing in the tank.

One more thought about daily huge water changes. I just wonder how many folks who do huge daily water changes have ever tried a less vigorous WC schedule? I would guess that most folks, and especially newbies, see all the direction that you have to do tha for your discuss to survive, and do just that. It was that kind of advice that kept me from trying discuss for many years. I finally saw some 3 inch juveniles on sale at my local shop, and tought I would give them a try with my usual tank regime (worse case scenario would be that I would sell the fish back to the shop because I do not want to be doing water changes all the time - I'd rather be watching my fish and enjoying the tank). One final thought, how often is the water changed fro wild caught fish ontheir journey's from native riverine habitats in South America, in small containers on local boats to local airports to larger airports to the US then through customs then to dealers and shops? I have no idea, but I would guess that those fish don't get 70% water changes every day, yet make it thousands of miles from their homes to our tanks. HOw many die during transit? Don't knwo, maybe lots. Point is, while discus are undoubtably sensitive fish and daily water changes are good things, these fish are also adaptable and have some range of environmental tolerance, otherwise they would never have even made it to the aquarium industry.

I guess my rant really is about established hobbyists insisting to new discuss owners that they MUST do huge daily water changes. I would rather that we tell newbies 'look, daily water changes work, and if you don't mind all the work and effort, then go for it. But, these fish can do well with less rigorous maintenance that you shouldn't be afraid to try doing water changes less frequently. But when doing so, make sure you do watch your fish, don't overfeed, have good water circulation and temperature control, and a physical tank setup that te fish like! Hey, that's what we follow for all aquariium fish, isn't it? Obviously, the smaller your tank and the more fish you have (or the more feedings you do, the more you'll have to watch things and the more freuent or larger water changes you will likely have to do.

So as to not further annoy folks - do what you feel you need to for your fish, just make sure you take time out to enjoy them between water changes!

Can you post a pic of your tank and fish.


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[msharper]

I guess my rant really is about established hobbyists insisting to new discuss owners that they MUST do huge daily water changes. I would rather that we tell newbies 'look, daily water changes work, and if you don't mind all the work and effort, then go for it.
Well said! I feel as if old school traditional Discus owners are in a private club and for whatever reason don't want new people to try Discus out. Using scare tactics like 70% water changes on a 90 gallon tank daily!!! That would be back breaking! I would spend more time changing water everyday then just sitting back and enjoying my fish. I already have a full time job. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Isn't it???

[steakman]

I think the daily WC should be applied to any juvies discus under 4 inch, because you have to feed them many times a day for them to grow.

The more you feed, the messier they get, hence higher nitrites, nitrates and ammonia. Plus, the juvies will definitely benefit from all the things come with fresh WCs. If not, there's great chance for them to be stunted, or to catch all kinda diseases, and death.

There's always exception. Some would be growing up and doing fine, but most would not be.

The daily WC is definitely an option for healthy adult discus. How long between the WCs, it's the choice of the owner.

If the WC schedules turn into burdens, then there's no point to raise discus.

I am an accountant. I put all the numbers together to figure out how much water that I ... waste doing WC. Here it is for you guys to see:

- 3 tanks: 2-75 gallon, and 1-125 gallon = 275 gallon.

- 50% WC daily = 137.5 gallon

- 2 years WC (that's how long I've had discus) of 360 days a year give or take = 360 x 2 x 137.5 = 99,000.00 gallon of water (ninety thousand gallon).

- The toilet I use at home is the new water saver 1 gallon per flush.

- In 2 years of WC, 99,000.00 gallon of water = 99,000.00 times I use to flush my toilet.

- Let's say I use the toilet 6 times a day, 1 gallon per flush = 6 gallon/day of use.

- with 99,000 gallon of water, I can flush my toilet 16,500 days of my life. (99,000 / 6 = 16,500.00 days)

- 16,500 days = 45 years and 75 days (16,500 / 365 = 45 + 75 days).

The amount of WC for my discus in 2 years, equal to 45 years of flushing the toilet for a person ...

Sorry, man ... I gotto go do my WC ... :D

[Bud Smith]

Thanks sounds great. I can handle twice a week. I'm doing 30% twice a week now like you mentioned, for the plants;)
Is anyone else having success with adult Discus doing as little as 2 x 30% per week?

I have a 75 gallon BB with 8 adult discus and I do two 30% changes per week but I do not have sand or live plants that may make a difference
I have a Kleen sweep and I clean up the debri in the tank after every feeding and have not had any problems with the 2 water changes
I have a juvies tank and I do the same procedure but do daily water changes

[msharper]

I have a 75 gallon BB with 8 adult discus and I do two 30% changes per week but I do not have sand or live plants that may make a difference
I have a Kleen sweep and I clean up the debri in the tank after every feeding and have not had any problems with the 2 water changes
I have a juvies tank and I do the same procedure but do daily water changes

Very interesting. The combo of the live plants and the bacteria living in my thin layer of substrate would mean that 2 x 30% should be more than enough. Does that make sense?

[jimg]

I decided to check my water quality using a quick strip. My last water change was one week ago and next planned one will be next weekend. Using a test striip, nitrate between 0 and 20 ('safe; range on the test strip), nitrite is 0, hardness is between 70 and 150 (soft and hard, respectively), total chlorine is 0, total alkalinity is between 120 and 180 ('ideal'), and pH is between 6.2 and 6.8 (closer in color to 6.2). Again, all fish are doing fine one the one discuss pair is nicely protecting the eggs, which should hatch out today. As background, all my fish are from a local breeder, i use chicago Lake Michigan tap water that id dechlorinated and kept in one gallon milk jugs between water changes (I hate carrying them up from the basement!!). I have lots of drftwood in the tank, much of it oak and maple branches that I've collected from my yard, soaked, boiled and scrubbed before placing in the tank.

One more thought about daily huge water changes. I just wonder how many folks who do huge daily water changes have ever tried a less vigorous WC schedule? I would guess that most folks, and especially newbies, see all the direction that you have to do tha for your discuss to survive, and do just that. It was that kind of advice that kept me from trying discuss for many years. I finally saw some 3 inch juveniles on sale at my local shop, and tought I would give them a try with my usual tank regime (worse case scenario would be that I would sell the fish back to the shop because I do not want to be doing water changes all the time - I'd rather be watching my fish and enjoying the tank). One final thought, how often is the water changed fro wild caught fish ontheir journey's from native riverine habitats in South America, in small containers on local boats to local airports to larger airports to the US then through customs then to dealers and shops? I have no idea, but I would guess that those fish don't get 70% water changes every day, yet make it thousands of miles from their homes to our tanks. HOw many die during transit? Don't knwo, maybe lots. Point is, while discus are undoubtably sensitive fish and daily water changes are good things, these fish are also adaptable and have some range of environmental tolerance, otherwise they would never have even made it to the aquarium industry.

I guess my rant really is about established hobbyists insisting to new discuss owners that they MUST do huge daily water changes. I would rather that we tell newbies 'look, daily water changes work, and if you don't mind all the work and effort, then go for it. But, these fish can do well with less rigorous maintenance that you shouldn't be afraid to try doing water changes less frequently. But when doing so, make sure you do watch your fish, don't overfeed, have good water circulation and temperature control, and a physical tank setup that te fish like! Hey, that's what we follow for all aquariium fish, isn't it? Obviously, the smaller your tank and the more fish you have (or the more feedings you do, the more you'll have to watch things and the more freuent or larger water changes you will likely have to do.

So as to not further annoy folks - do what you feel you need to for your fish, just make sure you take time out to enjoy them between water changes!
many of us have been there and learned from experience and done things many different ways, when they didn't work we came here for advice from those who were ahead of us and already made our mistakes. I don't ever recall anyone saying you MUST do what is suggested. some of us try to help by sharing what we learned so we don't have to answer you in the disease sickness section. So take the advice as you will, it takes little to realize it is just advice!

plus I think everyone who wants to go get a pet should learn about them first.
If they learned the basics of their water and the nitrogen cycle they would pretty much know how much water to change.

[judy]

One thing that has always puzzled me: if you do huge daily WCs, doesn't that make it almost impossible for a healthy biofiltration system to develop in your filters? There's nothing for them to work on...
anyway, all's I know is with my monthly 50%, my parameters stay perfect (Ph drops a little, from 7.0 to about 6.5 over the month) and the fish are happy...

[Bud Smith]

Very interesting. The combo of the live plants and the bacteria living in my thin layer of substrate would mean that 2 x 30% should be more than enough. Does that make sense?

From what you are saying you have a 90 gallon tank with sand and plants and you plan on purchasing adult discus - here is my formula - size of tank x tank set-up x size + number of discus x number of feedings per day = water perimeters which then dictates how many water changes to do to keep healthy happy discus

[TURQ64]

Well, with all the back and forth, the underlying theme is that many have found what works for them on whatever place in the spectrum..Myself, even after raising fish in many different states and waters, I've never escaped a healthy amount of water changing..but it all works for me..I've tried quite a few other keeper's regimens, and they never work out for me..So we each have our curve..About the bacteria...They are in media, not water..Fish pee and poop, and food degrades, all of which is dissolveable in water, so the bio gets fed..A bigger consideration is your ph, in regards to the bio, not fish...acidic water, less pathogens, but harder for bio to build up..This is why I run lots of sponges and other media colonies..More alkaline water, easier for bio, but also the bad guys....(all of which live long lives in substrate, so it's all a juggling act from there)...Important thing is healthy fish..if yours are, fine..If not, do something different.....

[judy]

About the bacteria...They are in media, not water..Fish pee and poop, and food degrades, all of which is dissolveable in water, so the bio gets fed..A bigger consideration is your ph, in regards to the bio, not fish...acidic water, less pathogens, but harder for bio to build up..This is why I run lots of sponges and other media colonies..More alkaline water, easier for bio, but also the bad guys....(all of which live long lives in substrate, so it's all a juggling act from there)...Important thing is healthy fish..if yours are, fine..If not, do something different.....

That's what I mean-- the bio in the media can't get fed without the crud in the water and if all that crud is removed daily, there's nothing to feed the bio, right? I, too, run tons of biomedia-- and keep the Ph at or above 6.5 for the reason you note as well as not wanting a disastrous Ph crash. and the barebottom tank makes it a lot easier not to worry about bad boys...

[Nordin]

The feeling I got when I read this thread was that you just want answers from those who doesnt change water every day, because you dont want to do that... just sayin no harm ment
Regarding me, I change water every day, Got a planted 100g tank. Monday,Wednesday,Friday, and Sunday, I change 30-50%, the other days I just vacuum the sand and siphon the debrie and poop out from the bottom of the tank, and fill it up again, usually around 5-10%, one of the good stuffs of doing daily waterchange is that you actually lower the ammount of bacterias and such

Even tho the Discus fish are really sensitive against bad water quality, I dont think its needed to change water every day, but I do makes me feel better, atleast trying to give them the best envoirement that I can. Just think at it this way, you are trapped in a room, someone just put in food and water, and you must poo and pee in the room, where you are supposed to thrive, they just come and clean the room for lets say 1-2 times a week, I wouldnt like that atleast!. I change water every day, I dont got a problem with that, its so simple to just connect the hose to the tank and siphon out, then connect the hose to the tap, and just let the water get back into the tank. I know I'm blessed that can use my tapwater for wc, Swedish water r0x

[ihor]

Can you post a pic of your tank and fish.


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Here is an old picture of the tank from about a year ago. The close up is from a spawn earlier this year. I will try to get better pics soon.

[ihor]

many of us have been there and learned from experience and done things many different ways, when they didn't work we came here for advice from those who were ahead of us and already made our mistakes. I don't ever recall anyone saying you MUST do what is suggested. some of us try to help by sharing what we learned so we don't have to answer you in the disease sickness section. So take the advice as you will, it takes little to realize it is just advice!

plus I think everyone who wants to go get a pet should learn about them first.
If they learned the basics of their water and the nitrogen cycle they would pretty much know how much water to change.

Jim,

Ypu are absolutely correct in that no one has said you MUST do it this way. And I for one have certainly learned from many of the threadds posted on this and other sites, and am truly greatful for the suggestions and advice provided by all. My big complaint is that the impression generally given to beginners from the vast majority of the advice you see on this site is basically that unless you do large and many water changes every day or so, you will fail. This is just the kind of advice that scares beginners thinking of trying discus - it certainly kept me from trying for years before I just said 'screw it, i'm going to try it the way I have with all the fish I've ever kept. One gets a similar impression in various threads regarding whether to go with a planted tank or not. I fully agree with you that people should do what they find works for them.

I would love for folks to to do a group experiment and cut back in their water regime and see if they notice any differnece. I am not asking that people cut back so their fish die or get sick, but I belive most of us with at least a bit of experience can readily tell when our fish start getting stressed, and we can then stop immediately and do whatever water change we previously did. So, if someone is doing 50% changes per day, try skipping a day and see what happens. I think the results might be eye-opening for many, especailly those with stable, established planted tanks. I would not expect such a change to have disasterous effects on their fish.

Again, bottom line - do what works for you and lets you enjoy your tank and fish.

[msharper]

ihor, I think what you have said makes the most sense. Basically if I or anyone were to run a bare bottom tank with no live plants it is a no brained that frequent and heavy water changes would be the only way to keep nitrates low. That's a fact! I'm sure.
Nordin,
Your absolutely right I was looking for people on simply discus that do not do heavy water changes daily. My reasons are simple. 1) I do not want to lug around buckets of water up and down stairs everyday. 2) I did not and still don't feel changing water every single day is a necessity for keeping any fish in the hobby including discus if one has a well balanced planted aquarium.
I think within this thread my beliefs have been proven. Therefore this thread has served it's purpose and I am satisfied to know that many a good discus keeper is not a slave to the water changes.

On a side note: Being interested in aquaria usually coincides with a respect for nature and the environment. It surprises me that so many people willingly use that much fresh water without giving it a second thought. ???

[msharper]

Thanks Sean!!! Good luck to you too!!!

[Sean Buehrle]

Thanks Sean!!! Good luck to you too!!!

Your welcome,what's your next question you know your correct about and want to waste everyones time with?
The correct temp? or is it going to be the dreaded ph question?
Maybe it will be your farewell post to everyone because you have mastered discus keeping in one afternoon, and since your on a roll you plan on taking over the universe.

What a waste of time.



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[msharper]

Ha ha ha. No body is forcing you to post from you iPhone. Thanks for the hot tips though. Sorry you feel I wasted your time.

[ihor]

Your welcome,what's your next question you know your correct about and want to waste everyones time with?
The correct temp? or is it going to be the dreaded ph question?
Maybe it will be your farewell post to everyone because you have mastered discus keeping in one afternoon ,and since your on a roll you plan on taking over the universe.

What a waste of time.



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Thanks for the insightful and constructive criticism! I would not count me as proof. Which is why I suggested foplks on this forum do an informal experiment on their own. Folks should do what they feel is best for their fish and their own enjoyment. I never said daily water changes are not food for the fish. Only that in my case, the fish seem fine (as evidenced by continous breeding by not only the discuss byt also by the pygmy chain loach). Would others have the saem success - folks won't know uless they try. For me, I'm with MSHARPER - less time hauling water and more time enjoying the fish!

[TURQ64]

Personally, I tried a lot of ideas on WC's in 5 decades of fishkeeping....I had many work somewhat, and some fail..I was also a young slave in a few LFS when those were 'good words', so I have learned from some downright masters...On 'waste', like I mentioned, we've only had available coop water for a couple decades..before that, it was all water to the house in a bucket, for you, the dog, the fish...Wells were useless; too many years of ag runoff...deep wells?..Granite shield here..when it buckled, the Black Hills were born....I change around a thousand gallons a week..someone else would change three...My waste, both tank and RO, are filtered, and recycled to the wash, outdoor faucets, and gardens...I'm assembling a complete water recycling plant at home on a fixed income to completely recycle all waste water back into product water, as it isn't cheap here, either..My way works really well for me, with years behind it, and a lot of work..But I'm never shy of work; keeps me healthy besides the fish..
I'm surrounded by floodwater that won't recede until Oct., when we freeze up and start over again..spitting distance to the Missouri, Mississippi,Red River of the North, and Minnesota....downstream has been a historical nightmare, if you haven't heard...Talk to mama nature about it,matey...

[TURQ64]

Re-group, Sean....there are several threads running now started by newbies, fired up by factions in disagreement, which are digging in to the skin of concientious fishkeepers.Zen out, change some water, and refocus..Gary

[Sean Buehrle]

Re-group, Sean....there are several threads running now started by newbies, fired up by factions in disagreement, which are digging in to the skin of concientious fishkeepers.Zen out, change some water, and refocus..Gary

Will do, I'm done.


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[brewmaster15]

Thread closed.

and with it my closing comments....

Everyone will find their own way with water changes... you'll know when you change too little water...you'll fish will decline, get sick, look like garbage and be prone for all manner of illness... thats not an old school Hobbyist stuck on the water change regime....its experience, hard earned...take it or leave it.

There is no magic number for water change..but I will say this...you will never kill your fish with too much clean water of appropriate parameters....you will however do so with too little water being changed....so find what works for you...but never forget that you need to be focusing on what works for the long term care of your fish.

regards,
al