Sick Blue Diamond Need Help

[mk.bernardin]

Hey everyone,

One of my Blue Diamonds suddenly started showing dark colors and separating himself from the rest of the group. I took him out of the main tank and placed him in a smaller tank with an air stone. It looks like he is starting to lose some of his slime coat. My water has been consistent about 85 degrees, nitrate ~40, nirtrite 0, (gH total hardness ~70-75, chlorine 0, Alkalinity ~30 and pH ~6.5. I use the Tetra EasyStrips to look at my water conditions. This started happening the last 3 days. When the blue diamond was in the community tank he would show his normal colors when eating but would go right back to darking his colors again. I put some Lifeguard in his seperate tank for now.

Anyone have any ideas?

[mk.bernardin]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Blue Diamond discus starting separating himself from the rest of the group and showing dark colors. When eatting he would lighten his colors back to normal. Started happening about 4 days ago.




2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Turning dark and starting to lose slime coating (see picture attached)






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.


The only medication I have is LifeGuard and he is in that now in a separate tank with an air stone.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

I have a 40 gallon tank with 7 discus about 2-3 inches in size.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

I change about 1/2 to 1/3 water change every week. Have live planets with gravel bottom and tank has been running for over a year

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __85___

- ph __~6.5___

- ammonia reading __not sure__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading _40___


7. Any new fish/plants added recently

Two new discus were added but the blue diamond who has been in the tank longer was chasing them away. When the two new ones got comfortable with the tank the blue diamond started showing dark colors

[seanyuki]

Perhaps add some Seachem Prime and promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat.......what is the Lifequard active ingredients?....broad spectrum treatment like erythromycin,Furan 2,Maracyn,Maracyn 2 to treat yr sick discus......you may also add some coarse salt 1-2 Tablespoon for every 10 gallons.

[seanyuki]

Jungle Lifeguard requires use treatment for 5 consecutive days, at 24-hour intervals. ......better finish the whole treatments b4 adding any new meds......keep us updated.

[Moon]

There are a couple of issues here. Your nitrate appears to be high. Suggest increasing the WC frequency to daily. Did you QT the new fish before adding them to your tank?

[mk.bernardin]

(Moon)

I used to do water changes more frequently but my plants were not doing well with that. I also did not QT the newer fish. The rest of the discus in the community tank are not showing any signs of what the blue diamond is having.

[mk.bernardin]

Update: My blue diamond seems to be acting a little better tonight. He is his second day on LifeGuard and for a few brief moments he is out moving around and eating some blood worms. Hope this thread continues.

[AquaSteve]

I have a planted Discus tank - lots of plants and a variety of Discus sizes. When one Discus gets overly stressed due to other aggressive fish/size issues, I remove the stressed fish over to a hospital tank. I put in API's General Cure and run with it for one (1) week. It's like going to the spa for the fish because they calm down, start eating vigerously, gain strength, colors increase and they are stronger than ever. I re-introduce them into the tank and they fit in v-e-r-y comfortably.

I also see that your tank is running for one (1) year and trust you are periodically cleaning your filter (one component at a time) because the organic material that builds can harm the water quality over time. This is a whole other discussion, but first things first, I have had amazing results from just simply using API's General Cure - no other treatments were necessary.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[judy]

Your nitrates are high, especially in a planted tank where plants should scavenge at least some of them... more frequent, larger water changes are needed. fertilize your plants with substrate tabs or sticks and they should be fine with additional large changes. planted tanks and discus are tricky to manage well, and this is one of the reasons. Also, the blue diamond may have been prone to any pathogens the new fish brought in. Another good reason to QT new arrivals.
I've found blue diamonds for some reason to be more delicate-- that could just be me, though.
Finally, a 4o gallon with seven fish will be very overcrowded once they get bigger. Do you plan to move them to a larger tank?

[mk.bernardin]

I have a planted Discus tank - lots of plants and a variety of Discus sizes. When one Discus gets overly stressed due to other aggressive fish/size issues, I remove the stressed fish over to a hospital tank. I put in API's General Cure and run with it for one (1) week. It's like going to the spa for the fish because they calm down, start eating vigerously, gain strength, colors increase and they are stronger than ever. I re-introduce them into the tank and they fit in v-e-r-y comfortably.

I also see that your tank is running for one (1) year and trust you are periodically cleaning your filter (one component at a time) because the organic material that builds can harm the water quality over time. This is a whole other discussion, but first things first, I have had amazing results from just simply using API's General Cure - no other treatments were necessary.

Hope this helps,

Steve

Thank you for the good advice. I am going to pick up some API General Cure and grow out some of my smaller discus.

[mk.bernardin]

Your nitrates are high, especially in a planted tank where plants should scavenge at least some of them... more frequent, larger water changes are needed. fertilize your plants with substrate tabs or sticks and they should be fine with additional large changes. planted tanks and discus are tricky to manage well, and this is one of the reasons. Also, the blue diamond may have been prone to any pathogens the new fish brought in. Another good reason to QT new arrivals.
I've found blue diamonds for some reason to be more delicate-- that could just be me, though.
Finally, a 4o gallon with seven fish will be very overcrowded once they get bigger. Do you plan to move them to a larger tank?

Hey Judy,
What is a good number for nitrates? My tests strips indicate that it is safe. I know there is a lot of discus in this tank and will be overcrowded when they are larger. They are going to be moved into a larger tank or sold when they are larger.

[judy]

ideally, five, but at least under 10.... discus are sensitive to even marginally poor water conditions that would not bother other cichlids.

[Sasha]

I have a similar looking discus. You can see by this picture the hazy grey areas around the perimeter of his body, just like I saw in the blue diamond picture above. Is this what it looks like when a fish loses its slime coat?
68567

Does anyone know what causes the slime coat to degrade? My water quality is good - Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 0 and 5 ppm. Unsoftened, aged well water used in bare bottom tank. Ph slightly high at 8.0. Doing 50-60% water changes either daily or at least every other day.

I treated with General Cure (3 doses over 6 days), and I've seen some slight improvement, but he's still going intermittently dark, and has not been eating for about a month now.

I will up my addition of salt to the tank and will begin adding some Prime to the water to see if it helps with slime coat.

Let me know if you continue to see improvement in your blue diamond and I'll provide you updates on my fish as well. I'm not familiar with LifeGuard.

[judy]

Exactly what the sick discus I nursed back looked like at one point. Quick Cure dealt with it in two days.

[Moon]

It is probably a parasite infestation. I use FMG (Quickcure) daily for 3 days with WC in between treatments. Worked well for the past 8 years.

[Plumkin]

You can see in my pic that my discus also has the same slime coat issue what is it? What should I use to treat it quickcure?

http://i51.tinypic.com/2hoxndf.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2vtz97r.jpg

[mk.bernardin]

Update: Blue Diamond is showing his colors more and more throughout the day. I have been feeding him twice a day (just his favorite blood worms) and he will eat them just not as fast as he used too. I went out and got some API general care medication and will start that after I finish the LifeGuard treatment. I will post an updated picture later.

Judy: I was wondering about the nitrate level being that low in a planted tank. Can the plants still grow well in that type of water?

[judy]

oh, yeah. As long as you see 5 to 10 on your nitrates, you know the plants are absorbing all they need, and still leaving that amount behind...

Plumkin, assuming your water and water change regimen is good, try Quick Cure. If it doesn't work after three days, you can move on to something else, but it does look exactly like the infection mine had that Quick Cure cleared up practically overnight. Can't remember now what it was called...

[jimfur]

whenever I have had this issue I do a 70percent water change daily, add extra airpump and stones of course, use quick cure to contain it. It usually goes thru all the fish but very mildly on all of them. They look awful but when I didn't use quick cure it was definitly worse on the fish. It seems to run its course thru the tank the order the fish catch they get better and don't seem to get an immediate second round and all is fine, I find it relates to missed water changes for me anyway ( example I am on vacation or I am out on business or something or if I get a fish from a pet store they always carry it. I don't buy from them anymore learned that to many times) If you have neighboring tanks watch them because it may jump to them but if it does happen you usually can get it earlier than the first tank. This will kill your tetras and really mess with any bushy nose plecos so beware of that. This is just my experience not any science attached to it.

Jim

[mk.bernardin]

Back to the original thread pertaining to the title Blue diamond sick... Is quick cure a better treatment or API general cure? I am seeing less slime coat being removed from his body from using the LifeGuard.

[seanyuki]

API General Cure has Prazi & Metro....imo for deworming.....imo AP Quick Cure has F & MG to kill prasites....my 2 cents

[Moon]

Back to the original thread pertaining to the title Blue diamond sick... Is quick cure a better treatment or API general cure? I am seeing less slime coat being removed from his body from using the LifeGuard.
Lifeguard's main ingredient is Sodium chloride. Salt helps but FMG is a better alternative. JMHO.

[Sasha]

I will get some QuickCure and try it. Should I also raise the temp from my usual 85-86 degrees to 88 degrees? And use salt in water? 1T per 10 gals?

[Sasha]

Back to the original thread pertaining to the title Blue diamond sick... Is quick cure a better treatment or API general cure? I am seeing less slime coat being removed from his body from using the LifeGuard.

MK, I'm so glad to hear your Blue Diamond is doing better! Seems like most have suggested the Quick Cure (Formalin & Malachite Green) over the API General Cure (Metro & Prazi). As I mentioned earlier, I tried treatment with the General Cure, and while it may have helped some, it did not resolve my issue. Not sure if we have the same issue or not, but the pics sure do look similar.

[TURQ64]

The General Cure combo is for treating internal issues such as flagellates, and some worms...the quick cure is more in line with ectoparasites....Gary

[Plumkin]

I was reading you can use the quick cure up to 3 times a day if so how would you guys use it in a 10 gallon tank ?

[TURQ64]

What isn't getting mentioned,'cuz it's 'not on the label', is adding extra aeration to tanks when medicating fish. Meds gobble up oxygen, so air should always be added...Gary

[seanyuki]

Hi Gary,.........AP Pro Quick Cure did mentioned it in bold letters on the bottle......Maximum dosage: 3 daily treatments.




What isn't getting mentioned,'cuz it's 'not on the label', is adding extra aeration to tanks when medicating fish. Meds gobble up oxygen, so air should always be added...Gary

[TURQ64]

Oh well, I just don't see anyone adding it on several of these latest med threads....but cool, thanks..I don't have any, as I use straight,bulk ,non pre-mixed meds for the most part.

[mk.bernardin]

Wanted to update everyone on my sick blue diamond. He is all better and back to his old self. The LifeGuard treatment worked. Now the problem I have is the dynamic of my tank has changed. Since my blue diamond has returned to the tank my larger alpha discus has stopped eating and my melon (same size as the blue diamond) is chasing him across the tank not leaving him alone. I have put the melon in a critter keeper for a day and allowed the blue diamond to get used to the tank mates again. But what is bothering me now is at my alpha discus is not eating for the past 5 days or so. He may pick at a few brine shrimp but he is not acting like his normally piggy self. What he does is finds a spot to stay in and push other fish away. He is not bloated and shows no other signs of being sick. Color is good and no stress bars.

[Sasha]

MK - so glad to hear about the Blue Diamond doing better! I wonder if the "order within the pack" was simply being challenged with the reintroduction of the Blue Diamond to the main tank. How is it going now?

To provide an update to the Forum on my situation, the Quick Cure successfully eliminated the grey/whitish patches (which I think may have been Costia, an external parasite), but I am still dealing with a single fish who won't eat (hasn't eaten now for about 2 months). I suspect internal parasites is the issue with the non-eater, so I now have moved him to a quarantine tank and am beginning a heat treatment (slowly raising the temp of the water to 96 degrees over 3 days, maintaining it at 96 for 5 days, and then slowly decreasing it back down to 85). I hope this eliminates his remaining issue, and that after this treatment he begins to eat again.

Interestingly enough, while I am just in the 3rd day (just now getting the temp up near 96) of the heat treatment, the ailing fish has virtually stopped pooping. He was previously dropping 1/2 to 1 inch long white poop (despite not eating anything), but since being in the higher temps, he has essentially not dropped anything. I hope this is a good sign that indicates the treatment is beginning to have some positive effect?