New Fish, What's wrong with them?

[nhaynes11]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

I recently got 2 discus. Bought them separately. See photo of #168602 . There are small white spots but they don't seem to be raised. Discus #2 was purchased 2 days later: 68603 . Looks like there are some white spots on its head now. First fish came from a LFS and was probably poor stock. 2nd fish came from a breeder who had great looking stock and much better facilities (if we'd known they existed, we would have bought from there to begin with!). Otherwise, healthy eaters and very active.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)


White spots all over body.



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.


None.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

30 gal xtall. 6 rasboras ( about a yr old) 1 cory (3-4 yrs old) 1 neon (3-4 yrs old) 1 clown loach (unknown age, purchased day after the discus as a snail remedy)

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

water changes every 3 weeks. The tank has been running for about 4 years. Gravel substrate but I added Ecocomplete black a few months ago so I could put plants in. I put plants in about 3 days ago. Did a 5 gal water change 2 days ago with RO.

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ___84__

- ph ____7.4_

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading _5.0___

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
2 discus, 1 clown loach, new plants

[jarret8x]

I'm no expert but part of them being so dark besides being unhealthy could be from the black substrate.

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[TURQ64]

Hello again..so, first we need to look at the spot issue...If you have a 20g or something for a QT tank, start there with clean water, salt at 1-2 tbsp per 10g, and malachite green or quick cure.. follow the directions on whichever you obtain..extra airstone if possible, as meds deplete the 02... Gary

[LizStreithorst]

Too may fish from different sources, too little water change.

I hate to be blunt, but you need to do research BEFORE you buy Discus. Otherwise you have deal with the consequences. There's lots of good information on this site. Read it. In the mean time up your WC to AT LEAST 30% daily and hope that that rectifies things.

[nhaynes11]

It's not really a question of research. We researched about discus, we just didn't know there was a more reputable dealer than our LFS. We've had aquariums for many years, both salt and fresh. We'll definitely continue with the water changes, so at least that much is on track.

One question I have is that there are no spots on the fins, where you will almost always eventually see spots... its just the skin and it didn't occur over time. We put the fish in, it had spots. Maybe it's a lame suggestion but I also read a thread on here about substrate affecting coloration (as they try to blend in). Could there be other physiological causes for speckling. Peppering in pigeon blood varieties is a result of lighting and other water factors. Is there any instance of something like this in the darker varieties?

[Fishplants]

I posted this response on your other thread before I saw this one.

Is the pH of your tank significantly different from the tank the fish came from? Have a look at this photo, this fish went into a tank that was a lower pH than the tank it came from. Note all the white spots around the head (these actually covered the majority of the fish). This is definitely not Ich, and disappeared within a few days.

This is the second time I have observed this, in two different tanks with two different fish, after moving them into a tank with lower pH. Your fish looks like this apart from the dark colouration. Another tell-tale hint for me is the 'milkiness' to the end of your fishes tail, I have seen this many times on discus when introduced to a tank with a pH lower than the tank they came from.

IME Ich does not survive at healthy Discus Temperatures 28 degrees celsius to 30 degrees celsius.

Just some thoughts.

68605

[TURQ64]

Not peppering related..It's all most likely related to the substrate, but in a bad way..critters that aren't good live in less frequently changed water.......I'll bail out here..Good luck...Gary

[roclement]

It's not really a question of research. We researched about discus, we just didn't know there was a more reputable dealer than our LFS. We've had aquariums for many years, both salt and fresh. We'll definitely continue with the water changes, so at least that much is on track.

One question I have is that there are no spots on the fins, where you will almost always eventually see spots... its just the skin and it didn't occur over time. We put the fish in, it had spots. Maybe it's a lame suggestion but I also read a thread on here about substrate affecting coloration (as they try to blend in). Could there be other physiological causes for speckling. Peppering in pigeon blood varieties is a result of lighting and other water factors. Is there any instance of something like this in the darker varieties?

Hi there,

I am not going to say anything different than anyone else but i will urge you to do a little more research, use this forum as a tool since now you are here, a place where you can find some actual good info on discus.
The reason I say this is due to your disease questionaire, your WC regimen, multiple fish sources, no quarentine, no idea of discus strains, etc tell me that you DID NOT do enough research about discus, at least not enough to get you ready for them.

All is not lost, now you are here and you can get some help but I urge you to listen to the advice given and please do more research here, ask questions, and follow the recomendation given.

Good luck,

Rodrigo

[kingkong954]

Copying this here, too:

Hi Folks!

Here are more pics to help in the diagnosis: d3f.org/2011/09/discus-dots/

We are pretty confident that is not ich. Ich has fuzzy edges, appears on fins as well as the body, and is typically raised. It also has a more random pattern and inst seen as densely unless you're talking about very very sick fish. Then there's the whole 84 degrees+ business that we have the tank set at (dual heaters, dual thermometers).

We've been keeping fish for over a decade; this is our first foray into Discus, however, so their behavior and appearances are new to us. We had a SPS reef tank for 6 years until we got out of the hobby and just went freshwater (hence why we have some gear like RO/DI, float switches, and T5HO on this tank).

Their behavior has been great. They dont hide and eat very aggressively (we are feeding 3x a day via brine shrimp and blood worms; waiting for ON discus flake to showup from DrsFoster). I've seen much discussion regarding discus shyness, and propensity to hide when darkly colored, however that is not the case with these two. They are out in the open, aggressive, energetic, and eat well. These white spots, however, are interesting.

Thanks,

[strawberryblonde]

Do you have a QT tank that you can put the discus into in order to diagnose and treat whatever issues they have?

[Stag]

"water changes every 3 weeks..." "Did a 5 gal water change 2 days ago with RO."


That is awesome! ...For that impressive WC I present you with this green balloon. :balloon:

[Altum Nut]

That is awesome! ...For that impressive WC I present you with this green balloon. :balloon:

That's not very nice James. NO ICE CREAM FOR YOU.

I would have to agree with Liz that you have introduced fish from different sources without quarantine.
As Gary mentioned...treat your Discus in a seperate BB tank.
Many very experienced Discus keepers on this site are willing to help but only if you choose to listen.
The ball is in your court.
Note: I joined this site approx. 1 year before I got my first Discus and with that never the need to post in the DISEASE Section.

...Ralph