Breeding Green Tefe

[JustinKScott]

Is the Green Tefe strain any more difficult to breed than the more common ones (like BT or BD)?




Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[Second Hand Pat]

Justin, they are wilds right? So will be rather difficult getting the wild female to want to rumble with the wild males. Wild males will rumble with anyone. :)

[JustinKScott]

I believe they are wild. I'm not sure I understand the term "wild" however. I've seen green tefe fry for sale on here, and they were certainly not wild caught?

What does wild mean?


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[Second Hand Pat]

True Justin, but if they were from JamesP then the parents were wild caught. F1s should be easier to breed that wilds. Al least that is the way I understand it. I have a group of young tefes, all wild and hoping maybe they will pair up once mature. :)

[JustinKScott]

I don't have any (yet) but I fell in love with someone's fry for sale couple weeks back.

I'm trying to decide if I want to get another bunch of "normal" fry, a single proven pair of normal adult discus, or venture into green tefe. My end goal is to learn how to breed.


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[TURQ64]

Given the right water and environmental considerations, any green, Tefe' or otherwise, will breed easily..After brown strains, they are 'next easiest', if that makes any sense..Gary

[JustinKScott]

Define right water and environmental?

50%DWC with 7.4ph, semi hard tap water, @ 88F? 55G barebottom tank?

Or are you talking RO & buffers?


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[JustinKScott]

Also; where would I buy them? Hans does not sell 'em, I asked.


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[Second Hand Pat]

Justin, if you are thinking you want some tefes Simply has two sponsors which sell wilds. One is Mark (Discus Origins) and the other is John (Snookn21). If you are thinking tefe fry, JamesP, a member here on simply has sold tefe F1 fry here on simply. You could try PMing him.

[Larry Bugg]

Is the Green Tefe strain any more difficult to breed than the more common ones (like BT or BD)?

Jks


It is my opinion that Wild discus are indeed more difficult to breed than domestics. I have both wilds and domestics. I have had pretty good success putting a proven male and female domestic together and getting them to breed on multiple occasions and when I have a tank with 5 or 6 adult domestics together I almost always end up with spawning activity. I have not had that experience with wilds. I have only had one pair of wilds spawn and on several occasions I have had a wild male spawn with a domestic female. I currently have a 125 with 11Wild adult greens. They have been in the this tank together for about 6 months and to this date not once has there been a spawn. I could pick 11 of my adult domestics and put them in that tank and the results would not be the same. I have not actively tried to breed these guys though.


I believe they are wild. I'm not sure I understand the term "wild" however. I've seen green tefe fry for sale on here, and they were certainly not wild caught?

What does wild mean?

Jks


There have been many debates over this subject but to me "Wild" means wild caught from the Amazon. For me F1's that have spawned for Wild parents are not wilds


Also; where would I buy them? Hans does not sell 'em, I asked.

Jks


There are two sources for Wilds from sponsors here on Simply.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Discus-Origins-(Mark-Chen)-Ocala-Florida

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?181-SNOOKN21-s-Wild-Discus-Freshwater-Tropicals-(John)-Fort-Myers-Florida

[TURQ64]

I've bred Peruvian Greens, and Tefe' Green Discus multiple times. Your posted parameters would work for raising fry, but the short breeder's version is: really acidic, soft water. Mine are and were in 6.0 or lower ph. tons of driftwood, extra tannins, and good, live food. Peat, Catappa,etc. for humic sources.Total natural selection as for the fish themselves..We can toss domestics at random into breeder tanks, and get lucky, but not so with wild fish, IMO. Also, bigger than average breeder tanks...

[JustinKScott]

I'm starting to lean towards going for normal adults for a start.. Is there a breed that has that fantastic yellow look of the green tefes?




Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[Larry Bugg]

I've bred Peruvian Greens, and Tefe' Green Discus multiple times. Your posted parameters would work for raising fry, but the short breeder's version is: really acidic, soft water. Mine are and were in 6.0 or lower ph. tons of driftwood, extra tannins, and good, live food. Peat, Catappa,etc. for humic sources.Total natural selection as for the fish themselves..We can toss domestics at random into breeder tanks, and get lucky, but not so with wild fish, IMO. Also, bigger than average breeder tanks...

Exactly. For me to say wilds are as easy to breed as domestics would mean that if I can put two domestics in a tank and without any extra work have them breed then I should be able to do the same with wilds. As you point out most people have to alter their water in some fashion to get wilds to breed. I have great water in my tanks - soft, PH in the mid 6's and TDS around 60. That said my wilds don't pair and breed as easily as the domestics do. When I decide to put the effort into breeding the wilds I am going to have to explore some other options.

[Darrell Ward]

I tend to just want to enjoy my fish these days. Been there, done that with all the breeding stuff. Having said that, wilds are indeed much more difficult to breed compared to domestics, which often breed like rabbits under favorable conditions. IMO, odds are adults taken from the wild will never breed in captivity. Only occasionally do we get lucky with a spawn. The reason is to them they are living in an unnatural environment. No matter how hard one tries, a tank will never be the same as the backwater of a river. I think the best approach for someone wanting to breed wild fish, is to buy them as juvies, and raise them to adulthood. I think that would greatly increase the chance for success, since tank living would be practically all they have ever known.

[JustinKScott]

(Still a little unsure about the term wild.)

Since I don't live in the amazon; and won't catch my own discus...

Could I buy adult discus that look like jamesP's which are not wild caught and expect them to breed like "normal" discus?

If so where do I buy?


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[TURQ64]

Jim's Adult Green's are a fine looking pair of fish,which, unfortunately, you can't begin to duplicate in a domestic..I hope to have my current run of wild's breeding in the future, but for the wild's sake, not just to be breeding. As Darrell said, 'been there, done that'...so here I will politely bail out..Good luck on your endeavour....

[JustinKScott]

Yeah... Probably should just stick with normals & go to tefes after I have experience with them. ;)

I've not been there done that, so I'm excited! ;)


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder

[Darrell Ward]

"Wild" refers to fish that are wild caught out of the river. Any other fish that were not caught from the river or lake are not wild. F1 means that the fish are first generation offspring of wild caught parents. F2 would be the offspring of F1 parents, and so on.

[JamesP]

Well since my name has been mentioned in this thread here are my two cents worth. First of all I personally refer to a fish caught out of a wild setting to be a wild fish. Anything produced by two wilds I refer to as F1's. Again some people have a different interpretation. I agree that wilds are more particular and more difficult to get them to pair up and spawn. I don't think they are harder to raise if you are not trying to breed them. My pair of Tefe's have been consistant producers with basically straight RO water with a ph of 5.5 to 6. I use a large piece of driftwood to help with Tanins and shelter. I do not add anything else to condition the water. I use 65 gallon or larger tanks for breeders because I travel a fair amount and the water conditions are more stable and the fish seem to more settled in them. I also place the pairs on the upper rack so they also feel more at ease. My next project will be crossing my F1's with the parents. I am also raising a batch of Penang Eruption and Blue Faced Heckel crosses. The Penang was thought to be a male when I bought it and was surprised when I saw her lay eggs after I had to move the male Tefe temporarily in with her when there was a very serious marital issue with the Tefes (Scales were flying. She didn't want to be wowed that day);). I pulled the tefe male out once I had a divider in place and there was the Penange laying eggs in less than 1 hour. So I would agree domestic strains are easier to breed. I am not sure that any of the wilds besides the Heckels are more difficult to spawn. Each may have a slightly different need. Heck my first experiencing spawning wilds was back in 1980 when in college. I had a community tanks and very few water changes and my wilds spawned with my roommates playing nerf basketball in the same room. The house was old and the tank had ripples from the floor shaking and there they were with their spawn. Whatever you decide to do enjoy the fish and the learning experience. You enter a whole new learning curve when you do get a spawn and have to figure out how to get them to survive and grow. Good Luck.

Jim

Yeah... Probably should just stick with normals & go to tefes after I have experience with them. ;)

I've not been there done that, so I'm excited! ;)


Jks
---------
60g waterfall tank
80g high tech planted (2.7w/g t5ho, pressured co2, EI ferts)
Bare-bottom Discus growth tank w/ 8 juvies
Angelfish breeder