Purchased this......

[grindman620]

http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/DALLP/57GDLLP

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this 55-75 gallon Discus Plant Package. The guy (Don) is really nice and has been helpful prior to buying it. I wanted to get your opinions though on something. He recommended that I go with a C02 setup and some fertilizing with the Estimated Index Method. I just want to make sure that I keep in mind that I will be adding Discus and I want to make their home as stable and comfortable as possible. Would adding C02 be too much/dangerous for the Discus down the line? If I don't do C02 will the plants suffer?

I could really use some help on this as I want to get things ready before the plants arrive too.

My tank dimensions and equipment (as of today):
60 gallon tank ( 48 x 25 x 12.5)
Substrate mixed with fluorite and gravel
Marineland C360 External Canister Filter
1 - 200 W Heater
1 - 150 W Heater
AquaticLife T5 HO 2-(54W) Plant Bulbs
Hydor Koralia 750 Powerhead

[ericatdallas]

Okay, so I didn't use CO2 and I got a lot of algae. Added CO2 and algae gone.

Also might need to add nitrates. I had a heavily planted tank and dosed 2ppm daily, checking daily, and it was 0ppm within 24 hours.


I don't think the CO2 in "appropriate" amounts will be bad.

The balancing act of ferts, CO2, and lighting (not to mention the maintenance from planted tank) made me give up. Not that I'm not going to try again one day, but I'm going to need a lot more time available to me to want to try it again.

So not really advice, just my experience.

It was on a 75G tank with 2 adult discus (they acted like a pair and seemed fine by themselves), a few plecos, corys, and nerite snails.

[Maria Ashton]

How many discus are you planning on keeping? Any other fish?

[Second Hand Pat]

If you have done neither plants or discus I would research both and go from there. I have seen others recommend become successful with plants and discus individually prior to combining them.

[jimg]

http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/DALLP/57GDLLP

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this 55-75 gallon Discus Plant Package. The guy (Don) is really nice and has been helpful prior to buying it. I wanted to get your opinions though on something. He recommended that I go with a C02 setup and some fertilizing with the Estimated Index Method. I just want to make sure that I keep in mind that I will be adding Discus and I want to make their home as stable and comfortable as possible. Would adding C02 be too much/dangerous for the Discus down the line? If I don't do C02 will the plants suffer?

I could really use some help on this as I want to get things ready before the plants arrive too.

My tank dimensions and equipment (as of today):
60 gallon tank ( 48 x 25 x 12.5)
Substrate mixed with fluorite and gravel
Marineland C360 External Canister Filter
1 - 200 W Heater
1 - 150 W Heater
AquaticLife T5 HO 2-(54W) Plant Bulbs
Hydor Koralia 750 Powerheadimo I would not mix flourite with gravel, just flourite
use one heater as main the other a few deg lower as backup
power head with surface agitation will release too much co2
I have 2 tek lights with 4 54w bulbs each and it was too much for a 90 so I think you'll like what you picked

[Maria Ashton]

If you have done neither plants or discus I would research both and go from there. I have seen others recommend become successful with plants and discus individually prior to combining them.
I have to agree with Pat, I was a complete beginner and bought a large second hand planted tank with 13 discus and other fish. It is not as easy as it looks. Your tank will take a max of six adults, so six juveniles is probably a good bet, but the trouble that you might find with younger fish and a planted tank is that you will need to feed more than three times a day, small amounts, and you need to remove uneaten food and waste so as to maintain good water quality. Uneaten food, especially beef heart and mysis can collect around the base of the stems of plants making them less visible to the eye.

Your set up looks great though, just be aware about cleaning up... corydoras make a good clean up crew but they won't eat beef heart.

[zchauvin]

Lol.... When he would have told me about co2 I would've Hung up. You do realize you bought a low light discus setup... Then he says you need fertz and co2. When you have too much or too little of any of those then algae will grow like nuts. If you put co2, ei method fertz and low light you will have algae. Plus, if you try to up your co2 for any reason you will gas your fish. Get a drop checker for sure. Personally with that plant list I wouldn't use co2 or fertz. You will pay 50$ for a months worth of ferts with water changes discus require. If you use Excel or any flourish the val could and probably will melt. Just dis the fert and co2 and put about 120w of light over your tank and you will be good.

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[grindman620]

Thanks guys for the replies. I REALLY apprecaite the feedback, please keep it coming. It sounds to me like most of you are all for NOT using C02 (at least with my current configuration). I am all about simplicity like many of you. I would love to have a lavish beautiful planted discus tank, but I want to keep it simple and rather algae free. So if I dont use C02 and just possibly use Excel, do you think that would be ok? Or should I just not worry about fertilizing and C02 period? How would I control my algae? Sorry for all the questions, I am just really wanting to set this up right and keep it as easy as possible.

I will be keeping up to 6 Discus max. Probably 5 since there is going to be lots of plants and that will take up more space (keeping to the 10 gallon per discus rule).

Keep the feedback coming please!! :) :)

[grindman620]

JIMG - I already have the gravel ontop of the flourite. Would'nt it disturb the cycling of the tank to remove the gravel now? I have had it cylcing for approx. 3 1/2 weeks

[zchauvin]

I would just leave the gravel. It will help as a cap for the flourite, Jim probably thought you mixed it thinking it coils help out. No biggy, as for the fert, like I said don't use Excel or it will melt the val. You don't have to worry about alge, you have a low light setup. Just put 1 or 2 caps flourish and/or flourish iron 1-2 times a week and you will be good to go.

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[jimg]

yes it may I would leave it for now. It's up to you to keep it, I just like the flourite straight I kinda meant that as a personal preference, but the roots like finer substrate also.

[grindman620]

@zchauvin - Sorry I didnt know there was a difference between Flourish and Excel. I thought they were the same thing. So following the method of adding 1-2 capfulls twice a week with Flourish and my current setup, should help these plants stay healthy, green, and growing still?

@jimg - NO problem, I think sand would of looked better to be honest, but I already purchased the gravel and wanted to use it lol But yes, the flourite is on the bottom (about an inch) and the gravel is above it (2 inches about). SO the roots will hold onto the finer flourite easier

[zchauvin]

No problem grindman, happy to help. They have flourish trace, flourish, flourish iron, and flourish excel. Excel just has carbon in it so its a crappy way to provide co2 with a co2 system.

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[grindman620]

Yeah being semi new to the whole planted tank aquarium group, can make your head spin :confused:
What helps is being able to talk to people like you who have been there, done that and can really help out with some excellent insight.

Zchauvin- using flourish and flourish iron (as recommended above) will this still make the plants grow, but possibly at a slower rate without the C02?
This should be a "safer" option for the Discus fish too I imagine?

[zchauvin]

Def, it will make your plants grow no problem just not as fast as high tech setup

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[grindman620]

@zchauvin - Excellent! I just want to make it a nice home for the discus fish. I have just a few more questions if you dont mind (lol sorry):

1. Do you think I will have any algae problems with the method of fertilizing, lighting and my setup?
2. Should I just buy the Flourish and Flourish Iron? If so, I will buy the 2 liter sizes
3. Any testing kits I should get or things to watch out for that I need to be proactive about?

[zchauvin]

Nah, no problems just your basic kits. And any size, your preference

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[grindman620]

@zchauvin - You rock. I will pick up both the Flourish and Flourish iron. Unless you can see any need for the other ones?

[grindman620]

Additionally, I always wanted to find out something in regards to my filter. I have an external canister filter and it has a carbon filtration medium. I read somewhere that Carbon can be a No-No for Discus. Have you heard of this?

[zchauvin]

No problem. Some say carbon can lead to HITH- hole in the head. Id take it out just to be safe. You don't really need it anyways. Replace it with some 100 micron filter floss or something and it'll keep water clear.

[grindman620]

Here is a cut-away of the filter I have: http://www.marineland.com/uploadedFiles/Marineland/Products/sell%20sheet2%208.31.pdf

So instead of the carbon, just add more filter floss (polishing filter pad is on the top layer already). Is the polishing pad different than filter floss?

[Darrell Ward]

This is easiest, and most trouble free way I have ever found of having plants in a discus tank, and I'm an old fart. Never use plants that you will have to bury roots in substrate. Having deep layers of substrate will trap debris, and lead to water quality problems. The best way is to use only a thin layer of sand, no deeper than a 1/4" to 1/2". This means you use plants like Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias, Water Sprite, and floating plants of your choice. Use common sense about lighting. For such plants, 6500K and 1.5 watts per gallon as a guide is plenty. More will only make your tank an algae farm. Discus are rather large fish for a plant tank, so they should create all the "macro" fertilizer you need for low light plants. "Micros" can then be added with products such as Seachem Flourish after water changes. Easy, and it works every time. This is all it takes to have greenery in your discus tank without a lot of hassle, upkeep, and trial and error.

[grindman620]

@Darrell- wouldnt removing most /all of my gravel (leaving the flourite below) distrupt the cycling I have been doing for the past 3+ weeks? Would the thickness of my substrate (approx. 2.5 inches) really make things messy?

[Darrell Ward]

Removing the gravel will make a mess for sure. Fluorite is pretty messy stuff when disturbed. If the tank is not yet cycled, it shouldn't make a huge difference.

[grindman620]

Well the tank is getting pretty well aclumated and it would be a shame to waste the money from the gravel. Not gonna lie, I really wanted to go with a sand substrate. But it wasn't until after the fact that I decided this. Wish someone would buy my gravel lol

[walt3]

i started this 75 gallon planted tank with lots of gravel and finer plant substrate below before i knew all the work it would be.:) that being said i do gravel vac the gravel deep and well around all the plants every other day and do daily water changes approx. 1/3 total volume. fish started out as 2.5-3 inches total now they are pushing 5-6 and grow like weeds. i was very nervous about the water quality but i just got really focused and have not skipped any maintanence days in 4 months! i have a total of 180 watts over the tank now. no co2 no ferts. swords are really growing well and mellon swords are constantly shooting up small babies. anubius is sending roots all through the drift wood and look really cool. some minor algae but the "pretty" kind in my eyes, not the hair or slime algae. 6 discus, 9 cories, 3 pleco, 12 lemon tetras, 24 cardinals. 1 otto, and some shrimp that hide for there life.:069747

[laborelch]

vals need pretty high light and CO2 to thrive. Root tabs as fertilizer work, also Flourish and/or Excel as CO2 substitute if dosed regularly. You might want to dose micro and macro ferts 1-2 a week - check out http://www.barrreport.com/.

here a pic of the right side of my 200g planted tank: http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/38961/2649753360059391507S600x600Q85.jpg
middle section: http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/46469/2610007870059391507S600x600Q85.jpg
I run pressurized CO2 and 3-4 wpg for 8hrs/day (not for much longer though - going low light/low planted/low maintenance next week :))

[grindman620]

Do you guys think flourite substrate with gravel (decently sized, but not large either) on top is going to give me any cleaning problems or growing problems? Would I be better off just making it all flourite??

[dbfzurowski]

Good website to check out http://rexgrigg.com/

Good luck.

[ExReefer]

I disagree with comments about not using CO2. It may not be necessary with low light plants, but it makes things 100 times easier. If you keep you light on long enough to properly grow your low light plants, you will see algae of some kind. With CO2, it's minimal to zero.

CO2 is always a good thing for live plants. Even my Anubias grow faster in my planted tank with CO2 diffusion. Can't get a much slower growing plant than Anubias.

[ExReefer]

vals need pretty high light and CO2 to thrive. Root tabs as fertilizer work, also Flourish and/or Excel as CO2 substitute if dosed regularly. You might want to dose micro and macro ferts 1-2 a week - check out http://www.barrreport.com/.

here a pic of the right side of my 200g planted tank: http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/38961/2649753360059391507S600x600Q85.jpg
middle section: http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/46469/2610007870059391507S600x600Q85.jpg
I run pressurized CO2 and 3-4 wpg for 8hrs/day (not for much longer though - going low light/low planted/low maintenance next week :))

I love the look of planted tanks, but man the non-albino discus are dark. They just never show their true colors in a planted tank with black background.

[laborelch]

I love the look of planted tanks, but man the non-albino discus are dark. They just never show their true colors in a planted tank with black background.

exactly the reason I am going low light, sand colored textured background. Have someone coming by to take the plants tomorrow :-)

[Wahter]

Good website to check out http://rexgrigg.com/

Good luck.

Check it for information ONLY. These links will explain the rest. :D

http://socalaquascapers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7366

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8648-Rex-Grigg

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/78201-rex-grigg.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/those-that-use-rex-grigg-for-ferts-139452.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/146881-ferts-rex-grigg.html

http://www.rexgrigg.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=278

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/201358-rex-grigg

Just want to give a "head's up" and save others from some headache.


Walter

[x2h]

this is exactly how I started to do planted tank years ago. good thing is, you got a whole bunch of plants for a jump start. But don't do CO2 yet, don't put discus in yet. Play with it for a few months or even longer until you are confident. It feels better to lose plants than losing discus. If you really want fish in there now, try guppies. :-) Good luck!

[grindman620]

Yeah the plants will be arriving next Thursday. Just spoke with the guy over at freshwateraquariumplants.com. He is really nice and knows his stuff. I am just going to use the Flourish Excel (and some Iron) liquid for the time being and some dry fertz and play with that for a bit.

[x2h]

good luck. and don't panic when you see algae developing everywhere. it happens!

[grindman620]

Thanks x2h.......I know C02 would help keep the algae in check (if used properly), but do you think I will have an algae bloom with green water going with those products mentioned above?? I just dont want the quality of the tank to diminish of course.

[x2h]

Thanks x2h.......I know C02 would help keep the algae in check (if used properly), but do you think I will have an algae bloom with green water going with those products mentioned above?? I just dont want the quality of the tank to diminish of course.

First I feel that the lighting is too strong for the plants you have. defintiely limit it to less than 8 hours/day first.
Next make sure your have good surface agitation with the powerhead and the filter outlet aiming at the water surface.
Bury root tabs in the substrate. Don't dose anything else in the water yet. Your plants are fed thru the roots, so algae in the water cannot share it. Excel is fine except it makes vals melt.
If you see algae in the first few weeks, don't rush to add chemicals to kill them. It usually peaks at the first few weeks, then fade away if you do it right.
Run it this way for a couple month till things stabilize and your plants establish themselves (so does your experience).
As your plant mass becomes bigger and bigger, your algae will have less and less chance to dominate. I have a 2.5 gallon on my desk in the office, in which I grow swords in pots and some small fish. No dosing, no CO2, no fancy light, no nothing, and NO algae. Just a small 3W pump to circulate water. All I do is feed the fish and enjoy them moving in the jungle.
BTW if you bury the roots (not the stem) of Anubias in the substrate, they will grow much better/bigger than not.
For fish, seriously, put only a few guppies in there and feed them daily.
Once you have a stable tank, you can consider adding more fish.
I never had a greenwater problem this way. If you are not certain, an UV sterilizer would certainly help, it's one of my best investment.
For your interest, you could read Diane Walstad's "Ecology of Planted Tanks". It answers a lot of your questions.
Or go to Plantedtank.net for more advices, lots of experts there.
Good luck!