themovieguru
10-22-2011, 03:26 PM
Hello Everyone- I am in the final stages of planning a 120 gallon discus tank and I wanted to post the specs that I have and see what your opinions are. I have done about two-three months of research at this point, and though the research is not complete, I feel that I am at the point where I need more information and some feedback in order to finalize things.*
I apologize for the length of this post, but as you know, it is complicated business and I can't go any further without some guidance in a few areas.
The Tank =*120 Gallon, 48 X 24 X 24, glass
Filtration*=*2 Eheim 2217 Canisters
- Not all of the media is known at this time. Does anyone have any media combinations that would work well? I know some people use the standard media and others use custom items with great success. What do you think would work the best in my set up? Two products I want to use are:
-*AMMO-CHIPS (pure Zeolite ammonia remover)
-*Bio-Chem Stars
- I will use a spray bar on each filter, as well as a diffuser on each to oxygenate the water. This way I will not need to use an air pump and bubble wall, which was my initial plan before discovering the diffuser.
Heating*=*Hydor 300 Watt Inline Heater (x2)
- My target temperature is between 85 and 86.
Water Creation Method*=*AquaFX Dolphin 3 Stage RO unit, custom built from their website. The specs:
Sediment filter = 1 micron
Carbon Filter = NH2Cl Blaster carbon (two separate canisters)
Output = 200GPD
DI Addon = single DI
Ball valve,*Flush kit,*Float Valve, ASO Automatic Shut off Valve with Check Valve*
Water Connection = inline sink adapter
- Questions regarding this unit are:
-- Do I need the DI add-on?*
-- How often should I flush the membrane?
-- How often should I expect to change the filters and membrane? I know there are manufacturer specs on this but these often differ from practical experience, and I am curious to know what those differences are.
Driftwood -*I will have several pieces of driftwood, which I am hoping will help keep the pH stable.
Plants- The tank will be sparsely planted. The plants I am leaning toward are:
- Swords
- Java Fern
- Crytocoryne wendtii
-- Additionally though, I have decided on several Marimo moss balls which I plan to use to outcompete the food demands of any tank algae that might crop up.*
**The outcome of the plants depends on the performance of the lighting, explained below after Photoperiod.*
Photoperiod - This is open for debate, and it seems there are many different opinions on it.*
- I will have 11 hours of daylight, 1 hour of darkness, 11 hours of moonlight, 1 hour of darkness.*
- Another variation I considered:
-- 10 hours of daylight, 2 hours of darkness, 10 hours of moonlight, 2 hours of darkness
*the moonlight will not be a blue moonlight unit, rather a couple of small lower lumen LED strips placed farther away from the tank to create a sort of dim, shadowy glow. I think this is probably closer to real moonlight, because while blue moonlights look cool, moonlight is not actually blue.
Lighting-*48 inch T8 LED Blub (x2) - 6000K, 1600 lumens each.
- Lighting was one of my most difficult research points. I spent two straight weeks on lighting and I still have no definitive proof that these tubes will grow plants. I am a pessimist, so my gut feeling is they will not. Their seller (superbrightleds) offered no information whatsoever on PAR or PUR values and had no idea if they would work. I do not want to use anything other than LEDs, which makes this harder I know. However I wanted to save money in the long run and provide a better quality of light that would showcase their best colors.*
- The only option I had left was to get these lights and see if they work before putting any fish in the tank. If they do not work, I have two options:
1) Remove all live plants and replace with fake plants.*
2) Skip fake plants and use a driftwood formation instead.
3) Upgrade to very bright lights in one part of the tank where I will place all plants. The rest of the tank will have lower light, but bright enough so they will not pepper. This way I could still grow plants and get their nitrogen reducing benefits while not making the whole tank too bright as to make the discus uncomfortable.*
Questions regarding lighting and plants: Is the trouble of finding a balance between discus compatible lighting and plants really worth it? Do the positive effects of live plants in the tank outweigh the numerous headaches and problems I have encountered so far? Should I simply scrap the live plants altogether? If I scrap the live plants, will I need to add a nitrate filter?
Tank Mates =**none
- I went back and forth on this one MANY times, but the conclusion that I came to was that it would simply be too complicated and counterproductive to have any tank mates. The main purpose of the tank is to serve as a habitat for the discus. I thought it would be nice to have a few other fish in there, especially if they could help maintain the tank (bottom feeders, algae eaters), but there were just too many drawbacks and reasons not to do it. For example:
- I wanted a Bristlenose Pleco for algae eating, but I was extremely disappointed to learn that they produce so much feces that it makes them almost counterproductive.*
- I also thought of some cory cats to serve as scavengers, but again, the waste to work ratio didn't seem worth it based on what I read. There were only a few types of corys that can stand the high discus temps, and I don't want to lower the tank temperature at all.*Besides, I don't want any other fish bothering the discus, outcompeting them for food or doing anything that will hamper their development.*
Target Number of Discus- My goal is to have somewhere between 9 and 11 discus- not right away obviously. I plan to get them when they are between 2-4 inches. My source for all discus will be Hans.*
Substrate and Tank Floor Materials:
- I will have a bottom layer of EcoComplete.
- I will have a top layer of white pool filter sand.
-- Notes about the sand: I have selected sand over gravel because it is bright and I do not want the discus to pepper. Also I did not want any spaces where food particles could sink down and decay. The sand will not cover plant roots. There will be an exposed area of substrate underneath and around the plants for the roots.*
**If I decide to scrap the live plants, I will obviously eliminate the EcoComplete and simply go with pool filter sand.
Water Change and Maintenance Plan
- I will change 30 gallons of water twice per week.*
- I will use a Python to vacuum the feces and other debris from the top of the sand. I will hold the Python just far enough away so that it can suck waste up but not stir up the sand. I know this will take practice but I assume it can be done. Every so often I will gently rake through the sand to keep it fresher.
-*The clean water will be poured directly from my RO unit into a 40 gallon reservoir. The water will be heated to 85 degrees (using Eheim Jager TruTemp 150 Watt), then pumped back into the main tank after remineralizing (see below).
- My top off pump will feed off of the remaining 10 gallons in the reservoir until my next water change.
- I will remineralize the water with Discus Essential. However, I have not been able to figure out how much to use. Does anyone know the proper dose for the amount of water I will be changing? Even though I don't know how much I need, I have a bad feeling that the Discus Essential will be a very expensive recurring cost- I envision somewhere around $50 per month. does anyone know any ways I can remineralize safely (meaning NO tap water) and not turn water treatment into a money pit? Extensive research has not yielded any results on this.*
Feeding
- I will feed twice per day. I will take from a selection of foods and alternate each day to keep a good variety.*
-- Food Selection:
-- Beef Heart Mix - frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Blood Worms - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Hikari Bio-Pure Brine Shrimp - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Hikari Bio-Pure Brine Shrimp (with spirulina) - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Omega One Super Color Flake Food
-- Omega One First Flake Food
-- Omega One Kelp Super Veggie Flake Food
- A couple of hours after the evening feeding I will use long tweezers and pick up any uneaten particles of food. I will not have time to do this in the morning because I have to leave for work. Will only doing this once a day cause any problems?
Probes, Monitors, Water Testing and Timers
- I will definitely use a pH probe- American Marine Pinpoint pH Monitor - Any recommendations?
- I will also use a good old fashioned floating thermometer in the tank and fill reservoir.
- All lights will be on digital lamp timers.
- It was recommended that I employ a temperature probe to attach to each of the heaters, which serve as a backup system in case the heaters malfunction. I have not reached a final decision on this, as I don't know if the probe would be less reliable than the thermometer over time.
- I am going to set up a webcam server so I can remote in and check on the tank while I am at work.*
- I would like to use other probes but they are expensive and I get the impression they don't last very long and can often cause confusing and contradictory results when calibration isn't exactly perfect. Does anyone have any recommendations on other probes or water quality monitoring systems that are RELIABLE and produce consistent results?
- For additional water testing I will use:*
-- Salifert KH/Alkalinity Test Kit
-- Salifert Nitrate Test Kit
Cycling, Tank Setup and Fish Adding
- This is something I can definitely use some advice on, and it also depends on whether or not I go with plants or no plants. But here are some of the things I plan to do in order to get the tank going:
-- To cycle the tank I will use the ammonia method. Though it takes a bit longer in most cases, I think it is the safest and most scientifically sound method that I am comfortable with using. For a while I thought about getting some healthy colonies from a fish store tank but I believe the ammonia method will be the best in the long run.*
-- Once the tank has cycled I will add plants (if I have decided to do so).*
-- When it comes to adding discus, how many should I add in my first group? I was thinking somewhere between 3-5, but I do not know for sure.
-- After my first group is added, how long should I wait until I add my next group? And how many should be in the subsequent groups? I was thinking a month, but again this is something I do not know for certain.
Well, that's about all I have for now. I thoroughly appreciate your time and attention in helping me with my first discus project.*
Matt
I apologize for the length of this post, but as you know, it is complicated business and I can't go any further without some guidance in a few areas.
The Tank =*120 Gallon, 48 X 24 X 24, glass
Filtration*=*2 Eheim 2217 Canisters
- Not all of the media is known at this time. Does anyone have any media combinations that would work well? I know some people use the standard media and others use custom items with great success. What do you think would work the best in my set up? Two products I want to use are:
-*AMMO-CHIPS (pure Zeolite ammonia remover)
-*Bio-Chem Stars
- I will use a spray bar on each filter, as well as a diffuser on each to oxygenate the water. This way I will not need to use an air pump and bubble wall, which was my initial plan before discovering the diffuser.
Heating*=*Hydor 300 Watt Inline Heater (x2)
- My target temperature is between 85 and 86.
Water Creation Method*=*AquaFX Dolphin 3 Stage RO unit, custom built from their website. The specs:
Sediment filter = 1 micron
Carbon Filter = NH2Cl Blaster carbon (two separate canisters)
Output = 200GPD
DI Addon = single DI
Ball valve,*Flush kit,*Float Valve, ASO Automatic Shut off Valve with Check Valve*
Water Connection = inline sink adapter
- Questions regarding this unit are:
-- Do I need the DI add-on?*
-- How often should I flush the membrane?
-- How often should I expect to change the filters and membrane? I know there are manufacturer specs on this but these often differ from practical experience, and I am curious to know what those differences are.
Driftwood -*I will have several pieces of driftwood, which I am hoping will help keep the pH stable.
Plants- The tank will be sparsely planted. The plants I am leaning toward are:
- Swords
- Java Fern
- Crytocoryne wendtii
-- Additionally though, I have decided on several Marimo moss balls which I plan to use to outcompete the food demands of any tank algae that might crop up.*
**The outcome of the plants depends on the performance of the lighting, explained below after Photoperiod.*
Photoperiod - This is open for debate, and it seems there are many different opinions on it.*
- I will have 11 hours of daylight, 1 hour of darkness, 11 hours of moonlight, 1 hour of darkness.*
- Another variation I considered:
-- 10 hours of daylight, 2 hours of darkness, 10 hours of moonlight, 2 hours of darkness
*the moonlight will not be a blue moonlight unit, rather a couple of small lower lumen LED strips placed farther away from the tank to create a sort of dim, shadowy glow. I think this is probably closer to real moonlight, because while blue moonlights look cool, moonlight is not actually blue.
Lighting-*48 inch T8 LED Blub (x2) - 6000K, 1600 lumens each.
- Lighting was one of my most difficult research points. I spent two straight weeks on lighting and I still have no definitive proof that these tubes will grow plants. I am a pessimist, so my gut feeling is they will not. Their seller (superbrightleds) offered no information whatsoever on PAR or PUR values and had no idea if they would work. I do not want to use anything other than LEDs, which makes this harder I know. However I wanted to save money in the long run and provide a better quality of light that would showcase their best colors.*
- The only option I had left was to get these lights and see if they work before putting any fish in the tank. If they do not work, I have two options:
1) Remove all live plants and replace with fake plants.*
2) Skip fake plants and use a driftwood formation instead.
3) Upgrade to very bright lights in one part of the tank where I will place all plants. The rest of the tank will have lower light, but bright enough so they will not pepper. This way I could still grow plants and get their nitrogen reducing benefits while not making the whole tank too bright as to make the discus uncomfortable.*
Questions regarding lighting and plants: Is the trouble of finding a balance between discus compatible lighting and plants really worth it? Do the positive effects of live plants in the tank outweigh the numerous headaches and problems I have encountered so far? Should I simply scrap the live plants altogether? If I scrap the live plants, will I need to add a nitrate filter?
Tank Mates =**none
- I went back and forth on this one MANY times, but the conclusion that I came to was that it would simply be too complicated and counterproductive to have any tank mates. The main purpose of the tank is to serve as a habitat for the discus. I thought it would be nice to have a few other fish in there, especially if they could help maintain the tank (bottom feeders, algae eaters), but there were just too many drawbacks and reasons not to do it. For example:
- I wanted a Bristlenose Pleco for algae eating, but I was extremely disappointed to learn that they produce so much feces that it makes them almost counterproductive.*
- I also thought of some cory cats to serve as scavengers, but again, the waste to work ratio didn't seem worth it based on what I read. There were only a few types of corys that can stand the high discus temps, and I don't want to lower the tank temperature at all.*Besides, I don't want any other fish bothering the discus, outcompeting them for food or doing anything that will hamper their development.*
Target Number of Discus- My goal is to have somewhere between 9 and 11 discus- not right away obviously. I plan to get them when they are between 2-4 inches. My source for all discus will be Hans.*
Substrate and Tank Floor Materials:
- I will have a bottom layer of EcoComplete.
- I will have a top layer of white pool filter sand.
-- Notes about the sand: I have selected sand over gravel because it is bright and I do not want the discus to pepper. Also I did not want any spaces where food particles could sink down and decay. The sand will not cover plant roots. There will be an exposed area of substrate underneath and around the plants for the roots.*
**If I decide to scrap the live plants, I will obviously eliminate the EcoComplete and simply go with pool filter sand.
Water Change and Maintenance Plan
- I will change 30 gallons of water twice per week.*
- I will use a Python to vacuum the feces and other debris from the top of the sand. I will hold the Python just far enough away so that it can suck waste up but not stir up the sand. I know this will take practice but I assume it can be done. Every so often I will gently rake through the sand to keep it fresher.
-*The clean water will be poured directly from my RO unit into a 40 gallon reservoir. The water will be heated to 85 degrees (using Eheim Jager TruTemp 150 Watt), then pumped back into the main tank after remineralizing (see below).
- My top off pump will feed off of the remaining 10 gallons in the reservoir until my next water change.
- I will remineralize the water with Discus Essential. However, I have not been able to figure out how much to use. Does anyone know the proper dose for the amount of water I will be changing? Even though I don't know how much I need, I have a bad feeling that the Discus Essential will be a very expensive recurring cost- I envision somewhere around $50 per month. does anyone know any ways I can remineralize safely (meaning NO tap water) and not turn water treatment into a money pit? Extensive research has not yielded any results on this.*
Feeding
- I will feed twice per day. I will take from a selection of foods and alternate each day to keep a good variety.*
-- Food Selection:
-- Beef Heart Mix - frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Blood Worms - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Hikari Bio-Pure Brine Shrimp - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Hikari Bio-Pure Brine Shrimp (with spirulina) - Frozen (from Discus Madness)
-- Omega One Super Color Flake Food
-- Omega One First Flake Food
-- Omega One Kelp Super Veggie Flake Food
- A couple of hours after the evening feeding I will use long tweezers and pick up any uneaten particles of food. I will not have time to do this in the morning because I have to leave for work. Will only doing this once a day cause any problems?
Probes, Monitors, Water Testing and Timers
- I will definitely use a pH probe- American Marine Pinpoint pH Monitor - Any recommendations?
- I will also use a good old fashioned floating thermometer in the tank and fill reservoir.
- All lights will be on digital lamp timers.
- It was recommended that I employ a temperature probe to attach to each of the heaters, which serve as a backup system in case the heaters malfunction. I have not reached a final decision on this, as I don't know if the probe would be less reliable than the thermometer over time.
- I am going to set up a webcam server so I can remote in and check on the tank while I am at work.*
- I would like to use other probes but they are expensive and I get the impression they don't last very long and can often cause confusing and contradictory results when calibration isn't exactly perfect. Does anyone have any recommendations on other probes or water quality monitoring systems that are RELIABLE and produce consistent results?
- For additional water testing I will use:*
-- Salifert KH/Alkalinity Test Kit
-- Salifert Nitrate Test Kit
Cycling, Tank Setup and Fish Adding
- This is something I can definitely use some advice on, and it also depends on whether or not I go with plants or no plants. But here are some of the things I plan to do in order to get the tank going:
-- To cycle the tank I will use the ammonia method. Though it takes a bit longer in most cases, I think it is the safest and most scientifically sound method that I am comfortable with using. For a while I thought about getting some healthy colonies from a fish store tank but I believe the ammonia method will be the best in the long run.*
-- Once the tank has cycled I will add plants (if I have decided to do so).*
-- When it comes to adding discus, how many should I add in my first group? I was thinking somewhere between 3-5, but I do not know for sure.
-- After my first group is added, how long should I wait until I add my next group? And how many should be in the subsequent groups? I was thinking a month, but again this is something I do not know for certain.
Well, that's about all I have for now. I thoroughly appreciate your time and attention in helping me with my first discus project.*
Matt