HANS AT LFS OR HANS PURCHASED ONLINE ??????

[PhishNFilly]

Quick question. I am still going thru all the terrific threads on this website. I came across a few people who poo poo'd the idea of buying Discus from a LFS. My LFS gets their fish from Hans. Actually if you go to his website you can see my fish store listed as one of five he sends to in Michigan. Is there a difference of quality buying directly from his online store over buying at my LFS????? Actually I need to email Hans directly but came here because this is the forum of all discus forums, and you guys will most likely tell me true. Thanks, Julia:confused:

[Melissa]

Hmmm... Can't speak to any difference in QUALITY you may find between what he sends to the fish stores and what he sells directly- but I believe the concern about buying fish from a fish store is that fish stores are fish disease hot spots. Lots of fishy traffic goes through those tanks, and pretty much every fish in the fish stores water system are exposed to everything that goes through there.
It's better to buy direct from Hans if you can do it to avoid the risk of buying fish that could be carrying something they picked up from your LFS.

[PhishNFilly]

Mama thanks for the eye opener. The place I recently purchased my three seem to be fine but then again I am new but I have known the owner for a very long time. I have gotten many many cichlids from him over the years and never once had a problem, but then again......I do see your logic tho, they have all those tanks to clean and water change and I assume they don't have tools for each tank. Thanks very much. Julia

[MightyEvil]

Mama thanks for the eye opener. The place I recently purchased my three seem to be fine but then again I am new but I have known the owner for a very long time. I have gotten many many cichlids from him over the years and never once had a problem, but then again......I do see your logic tho, they have all those tanks to clean and water change and I assume they don't have tools for each tank. Thanks very much. Julia

Well, you also have those nice and caring LFS stores that are so hard to find. I guess that if they are out to sell quality fish, they will be a good store, hence he sells "Hans" discus...

You should be able to look up some reviews off the internet when you type their names on google. Cheers!

[Skip]

ok.. here is the deal...

LFS calls hans.. makes order.. he goes to tank and just grabs what ever they order.. doesn't bother looking other then number of fish he needs.. THEN it gets to LFS, sure they sell hans fish.. BUT how long have they been there!? 1 day.. 3.. 48?! you don't know.. unless you are there when they get sent to store and are still in bags.. then you don't know much about them... hey might bag a really great looking fish or maybe not the best of the bunch *by hans standards* lfs sell hans fish.. but some are stunted and have been there for weeks!! a couple look good but the mark up is way too much!

if you call.. hans will personally pick the best fish he has for ya.. people even get suprises, he is in contact with you before shipping.. during shipping and to make sure package arrives before 10"30am!! you get personal touch and customer service..

look you are not the first person to ask this.. or will ask this..

but i have done both.. and my 5 fire reds are by far my best fish and would jus as well get rid of all my other fish and just keep his.. so i could get more from Hans!

so good luck!

[Melissa]

NP :)

Anther thing to consider, just as it is with humans, some discus may be 'immune', or more, can cope with certain parasites better than another discus can. The discus you have are healthy and happy, but if you stuck another discus with them, also seemingly healthy and happy, they may all give each other what they're carrying or have been exposed to and you could end up with a problem. That is why it is very important to quarantine new fish properly before introducing them to your existing stock. You never know what they may be carrying.

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, I would deal direct with Hans as well.

[PhishNFilly]

I am very torn and I do hear you all very well. The reason I am torn is this. I did talk to hans, actually he surprised me with a contact in another forum I belong to, non discus lol. Talk about stunned, I was very stunned and he does know the owners of my LFS Chris and Dale at Fantastic Fins in Livonia, MI and did give a thumbs up to those owners as well. I am going to talk to Chris when I visit this weekend and ask him how long those Discus have been there, he has gorgeous discus but then again I have absolutely NO EYE on these fish yet, but if they came from Hans, I just feel I am going to be ok getting three more. I will ask questions of Chris, and I will see what he tells me on those he has up there. Again, thanks to everyone's feedback and help as I get more involved into these simply gorgeous fish. This is a privately owned store, very well maintained and has a incredible following around Michigan, I will keep you all posted. Julia

[lane mechtel]

I returned to the discus hobby two years ago, and have orderd all my discus from Hans directly. 12 years ago I was buying from lfs, I did not have internet service and I don't think Hans was in the states then. All four of my orders from Hans have been wonderful expeirences. also now with the online store is great, the first time I used it, I thought I might loose the personal touch. not at all, still emailed back and forth and called the morning fish arrived. and qaulity I couldn't be happier.

[Apistomaster]

The fewer hands a Discus has to go though the better off they are.
Some few shops actually know how to keep and feed their Discus from Hans or anyone else but the more direct the connection the better care they have received before they hit a retail shop. If you can be there when they come in and can take them home in the original water then you know they haven't been kept too cool, underfed too long and certainly not exposed to new diseases.
With the relatively slow turnover among retail Discus means many Discus experience a growth stunting experience.

[nc0gnet0]

Which pet store are you considering buying from? By any chance is it Preus pets? Another thing you have to consider. Just because a pet store purchases some of thier discus from Hans, doesn't mean they purcahse ALL of thier Discus from him. If I were to purchase from an LFS, I might be more inclined to purchase some locally bred Discus by an area hobbiest breeder.

Rick

[wendy9722]

You could also ask when they get their shipment in and be there when they are getting them out of the bags before they even put them in the tanks. But you still would need to qt them. Just a thought.....if you dont want to order online or however.....

[PhishNFilly]

I will add........the tanks that these Discus are in are all labeled Hans, he has two aquariums one on each end and it's all Hans Discus I am certain, also keep in mind I paid good bucks for my fish, these fish were not $25 dollars at all, they were 50.00 a piece. But he gave me two for $80 because I bought three, but he knows me and he has taken many of my cichlid fry over the year. I was so excited when I purchased my three I have total blackout as to what else he had there. I am going to go back on Friday and talk to him and get that info on when exactly he gets his fish in. Gosh I would love to get them out of the bag that would be awesome and I need to do more homework here at Simply. I hope I don't end up with stunted fish, if I go back I am looking at those Discus with a little better eye than a week ago. Again, I have to say thank goodness for this site! Julia

[DiscusOnly]

Why would one even consdier getting Hans discus from a LFS if you can order it directly from him? :confused:

[Skip]

Why would one even consdier getting Hans discus from a LFS if you can order it directly from him? :confused:

the lfs pays the shipping.. even though some of the price reflects the shipping in the markup..

if he wants to buy "hans" fish retail.. let him..

go for it..

ps.. the lfs maynot be buying hans fish on a regular basis.. only when they are low or out .. so the fish can tend to sit.. and most lfs that i have seen seem only only buy 2-3" fish cuz its cheaper

[terps]

Why would one even consdier getting Hans discus from a LFS if you can order it directly from him? :confused:

I bet many LFS ask that same question and so they don't bother ordering discus from Hans. Why would a retailer want to compete directly with their wholesaler? That's bad business.

[Skip]

I bet many LFS ask that same question and so they don't bother ordering discus from Hans. Why would a retailer want to compete directly with their wholesaler? That's bad business.

because LOTS MORE people don't know.. then Do know.. :)

and alot them don't want to pay for shipping for 1 or 2 fish

[nc0gnet0]

A fish stores markup is typically 3x the wholesale price of the fish, so unless your buying just one fish, your better off still buying from Hans direct. Some people just need that instant gratification ;)

[PhishNFilly]

Right now I have what I want from my LFS, I need two more fishies, I will go directly to Hans and purchase my lasties. I know deep in my heart I will never have a show stopper of a tank like many of you here. I don't have the money to purchase a $200 fish like I have seen. I am new in this hobby, maybe in years down the line I will have that show tank I don't know. I have 13 tanks going right now, and this Discus endeavor is by far the most challenging for me, even if I end up with a tank full of stunted little guys that is good enuf for me, I pray they grow and thrive but again my babies are still gorgeous to me and my grandchildren. I actually feel my Red Pigeon has grown alot just in a week tho!!!! I named him/her Dr. Pepper. He's got peppering on his nose but not his body at all, we shall see. Warlock I am a girl not a he lolol. Miss Phish. Thanks again to all for responded to this thread. This forum is "simply" the best. :) Julia

[Skip]

Warlock I am a girl not a he lolol. Miss Phish. Julia

Labelsssssssssssssssssssssssssss *with a lisp*

[LizStreithorst]

As Apistomaster said, the fewer hands a fish has to travel through the better. Order direct from Hans.

[ericatdallas]

Does the fish store have their 7-day guarantee like they do with their other fish? That by itself might be worth it to some people. Back when I first got in, with mail order fish, I also didn't know that most REPUTABLE dealers have a live arrival gaurantee.

When I first started looking for discus, that to me was almost worth it to have my local pet store (who orders from Hans) refund me if the fish died within a few days. That was important at that time, because I had always heard how "fragile" discus were.

I didn't know much back then, but today, I would almost certainly order directly from a SD sponsor directly. Fortunately, Mike Beals is only an hours drive from my place. Unfortunately, I have no room for any more fish right now and those that I do have aren't getting much attention lately :(

If they don't have a guarantee on the fish, then it's not even worth considering your local pet store.

[ericatdallas]

because LOTS MORE people don't know.. then Do know.. :)



Yup, I agree with Skip. All the fish the LFS are usually mail-ordered from companies we have access to AND/OR traded and sold by local hobbyists. I know I can get a plain cory for $5-6 at the LFS or I could pay $2-3 from a local hobbyist (sometimes even less). I bought Discus for $7.50-12.50 each from a local breeder and a LFS selling his fry were asking for $25-50 for fish from the SAME parents. I paid about $2 per albino longfin BNP on Aquabid when other larger dealers are selling them for $4-5 each.

Also, I would like to add that ... marketing and convenience plays a factor in a lot of decisions. How many times have you bought a $2 bottle of water/coke at the air port? Or $4.75 for a drink at the movies? If never, you're in a small minority. We all pay a lot for the same or lesser quality, when if we put a little work or effort into something, we get cheaper and better.

That's just the way it is.

I just want to be clear, I'm not saying all stock are the same. I'm saying, sometimes, the SAME thing costs more from the LFS.

If I had the choice between Hans (Stendker) stock or "other" and all else being equal, that's a no-brainer.

[LizStreithorst]

Discus don't die within a few days uneless they are terribly neglected. A 7 day guarantee doesn't mean a thing to me. What if the Discus were exposed to some pathogen at the fish store that they'd never been exposed to before? They might not show symptoms when you buy them due to the incubation period, but you will be stuck. Why take the chance?

[Ryan]

I have a local LFS that sells Hans' discus at quite a high price (I bought a 2" blue diamond for $50) and they are not all the best quality fish. I suppose this could be for a variety of reasons. I have no way of knowing how long the fish sat there before I came in. Knowing what to look for as far as shape and finnage goes, I looked the tank over and found a cute little BD with nice high fins to bring home. Unfortunately, he maxed out at 3". It's possible that he'd sat in that store tank for months before I found him and was just stunted because of neglect. The LFS kept them in a planted tank and only fed them flake twice a day.

Not all LFS are the same. However, I've never found an LFS that admitted to not knowing how to keep fish. Just because a fish shop owner claims to be a great discus keeper doesn't mean that he actually is. The one I bought my Hans fish from told me that he only kept the fish in RO water and that I was asking for trouble if I put my fish in tap water, or did more than one water change a month. We all know this is completely incorrect information.

So my advice is to take what the LFS says with a grain of salt and use your knowledge of fish and fish husbandry to decide whether or not you should purchase livestock there. If the tanks are all full of healthy, happy fish and you don't see any glaring problems, buy whatever suits you. Just make sure you properly quarantine it. That goes for any fish, discus or otherwise, and for any seller, whether wholesale, redistributor, breeder, personal hobbyist, and so on. Any and all fish can transmit nasties to your current stock so quarantine is always important no matter who you deal with.

I will admit that I am a bit of a fish snob. I am particular about which fish I get. I like my discus very round, no chips in the eyes, no lumpy foreheads, no dents in the chin, etc. Not everyone will feel the same way about their discus. Some people look at an LFS discus and see pretty colors, a nice personality, etc. and so they fall in love with the fish. If you like it, by all means, get it. I don't think you have to have show quality fish, or even physically perfect fish, in order to get enjoyment from them. Most people like to order directly from Hans because they can be very specific about what they are looking for. This will often get you a better quality fish, appearance-wise, than something you see at the LFS. It also lessens the chance that the fish may be stunted or disadvantaged from its stay at the store. If you're not concerned with having the biggest and the best in your collection and something at the LFS caught your eye, I think the answer's easy.

[ericatdallas]

Discus don't die within a few days uneless they are terribly neglected. A 7 day guarantee doesn't mean a thing to me. What if the Discus were exposed to some pathogen at the fish store that they'd never been exposed to before? They might not show symptoms when you buy them due to the incubation period, but you will be stuck. Why take the chance?

Like I said, back in those days that's what I thought. I would also order directly now... Not trying to justify it, it's a perspective to understand why people may prefer to order from LFS. Mostly because of not understanding that Discus are not as "fragile" as most people say they are.

[ericatdallas]

Not all LFS are the same. However, I've never found an LFS that admitted to not knowing how to keep fish. Just because a fish shop owner claims to be a great discus keeper doesn't mean that he actually is. The one I bought my Hans fish from told me that he only kept the fish in RO water and that I was asking for trouble if I put my fish in tap water, or did more than one water change a month. We all know this is completely incorrect information.


Very true. When I first got into Discus, I went to one pet store and the guy told me, "Don't buy that one. It's deformed." I said, "Really, it looks awesome to me!" Then he took the time to point out exactly where the flaw was... He said, "It's hard to tell, but we're getting some more in next week. You might want to check back..."

I also said, "Okay, well, what do you have in stock for RO filters?"
He asked, "Why do you need it?"
"Everyone says I need RO water for my Discus..."
"Really? Hmm... I don't think you do... I always think using RO water is superior, but I don't think it's necessary."
"Oh, okay... hmm.. maybe I should do more reading."
"Well, we're getting more fish in a week. Don't believe everything those other pet stores or people online tell you. Sometimes they read some pamphlet or hear some advice and they pass it off as fact without knowing that it only applies to some cases."

In any event, I usually recommend this store to EVERYONE that's new to the area (those that aren't, already know about them). There's a lot to be said about a business that acts with integrity.

[captainandy]

ok.. here is the deal...

LFS calls hans.. makes order.. he goes to tank and just grabs what ever they order.. doesn't bother looking other then number of fish he needs.. THEN it gets to LFS, sure they sell hans fish.. BUT how long have they been there!? 1 day.. 3.. 48?! you don't know.. unless you are there when they get sent to store and are still in bags.. then you don't know much about them... hey might bag a really great looking fish or maybe not the best of the bunch *by hans standards* lfs sell hans fish.. but some are stunted and have been there for weeks!! a couple look good but the mark up is way too much!

if you call.. hans will personally pick the best fish he has for ya.. people even get suprises, he is in contact with you before shipping.. during shipping and to make sure package arrives before 10"30am!! you get personal touch and customer service..

look you are not the first person to ask this.. or will ask this..

but i have done both.. and my 5 fire reds are by far my best fish and would jus as well get rid of all my other fish and just keep his.. so i could get more from Hans!

so good luck!

How can you possibly speak for Hans?????

[LizStreithorst]

Beautiful post, Ryan.


I have a local LFS that sells Hans' discus at quite a high price (I bought a 2" blue diamond for $50) and they are not all the best quality fish. I suppose this could be for a variety of reasons. I have no way of knowing how long the fish sat there before I came in. Knowing what to look for as far as shape and finnage goes, I looked the tank over and found a cute little BD with nice high fins to bring home. Unfortunately, he maxed out at 3". It's possible that he'd sat in that store tank for months before I found him and was just stunted because of neglect. The LFS kept them in a planted tank and only fed them flake twice a day.

Not all LFS are the same. However, I've never found an LFS that admitted to not knowing how to keep fish. Just because a fish shop owner claims to be a great discus keeper doesn't mean that he actually is. The one I bought my Hans fish from told me that he only kept the fish in RO water and that I was asking for trouble if I put my fish in tap water, or did more than one water change a month. We all know this is completely incorrect information.

So my advice is to take what the LFS says with a grain of salt and use your knowledge of fish and fish husbandry to decide whether or not you should purchase livestock there. If the tanks are all full of healthy, happy fish and you don't see any glaring problems, buy whatever suits you. Just make sure you properly quarantine it. That goes for any fish, discus or otherwise, and for any seller, whether wholesale, redistributor, breeder, personal hobbyist, and so on. Any and all fish can transmit nasties to your current stock so quarantine is always important no matter who you deal with.

I will admit that I am a bit of a fish snob. I am particular about which fish I get. I like my discus very round, no chips in the eyes, no lumpy foreheads, no dents in the chin, etc. Not everyone will feel the same way about their discus. Some people look at an LFS discus and see pretty colors, a nice personality, etc. and so they fall in love with the fish. If you like it, by all means, get it. I don't think you have to have show quality fish, or even physically perfect fish, in order to get enjoyment from them. Most people like to order directly from Hans because they can be very specific about what they are looking for. This will often get you a better quality fish, appearance-wise, than something you see at the LFS. It also lessens the chance that the fish may be stunted or disadvantaged from its stay at the store. If you're not concerned with having the biggest and the best in your collection and something at the LFS caught your eye, I think the answer's easy.

[Skip]

How can you possibly speak for Hans?????

because i can!

[PhishNFilly]

Great posts and alot to think about. I did go speak to my LFS guy today and we discussed this very subject about stunting and how long his fish have been in the tanks. He told me that my fish which I purchased were in his store 4 weeks. He also told me in his lifetime he has sold over 10,000 Discus fish. I almost wish I didn't know my LFS owner lol if that makes sense. I have purchased all that I liked from him today, he said more were coming in from hans in two weeks. I will go back and check what comes in the house but if I don't see anything I like, I am going to order directly from Hans. This is a great thread, again I appreciate all comments and insight into this this we do lolol.....Discus Dilemma 101. Julia :D