Newbie doin research

[bigjohnson]

Hello everyone...I've been on a couple of weeks now, spending a couple of hours a night checking out all this good information everywhere I click. I think I've learned alot in this short time, but won't be setting up a tank for about a month or so. I'm looking at upgrading water changing capability, substrate, etc. Only got a 29 gal with some tropicals in it now, but goin to a 70 gal soon...got my eye on a fluval osaka model, looks sweet. How are you people vacuuming sand substrate? I'm thinking of PFS and driftwood and want to be able to vacuum without removing sand? Any help will be appreciated.

[ericatdallas]

I think most people here aim for BB tanks, but the people with sand substrate gently disturb it and hover it over the top.

Are you starting out with adult discus?

[Skip]

yep.. i don't do gravel.. i like to look at the fish.. not the substrate.. its just one more thing to have to clean.. no thanks :)

[Bud Smith]

yep.. i don't do gravel.. i like to look at the fish.. not the substrate.. its just one more then to have to clean.. no thanks :)

+1 - could not have said it better myself

[Discus PB]

BB all the way. Way to easy to clean for me to go back to anything else!!!!!

[bigjohnson]

I'm thinking of starting out with 2.5'' - 3'' size fish, are these "juvies", as you can see I have a long way to go. I'm planning on only going an inch or so deep with the sand, and will be in our living room so we want to give it a little ambiance, for the fish as well.

[Skip]

I'm thinking of starting out with 2.5'' - 3'' size fish, are these "juvies", as you can see I have a long way to go. I'm planning on only going an inch or so deep with the sand, and will be in our living room so we want to give it a little ambiance, for the fish as well.

yes.. they are Juvies.. that still have lots of growing..

if you dont' care about growing fish out to the fullest potential.. and only want them to be ambiance.. they put in substrate..

however, if you must have substrate.. the thinner the better (1/2").. it will keep down chances of having anaerobic bacterial pockets the when distrubed will cause pockets of ammonia to be released and possibly damage or kill your fish..

of course you are newbie asking questions.. but some us have to learn from our mistakes.. i did and so have many others.. good luck with what you chose..

[bigjohnson]

thanks for the input, i do want the fish to be happy and continue growing out. i will keep bb in mind when making a final decision.

[jarret8x]

yes.. they are Juvies.. that still have lots of growing..

if you dont' care about growing fish out to the fullest potential.. and only want them to be ambiance.. they put in substrate..

however, if you must have substrate.. the thinner the better (1/2").. it will keep down chances of having anaerobic bacterial pockets the when distrubed will cause pockets of ammonia to be released and possibly damage or kill your fish..

of course you are newbie asking questions.. but some us have to learn from our mistakes.. i did and so have many others.. good luck with what you chose..

I started with sand kept it for a few months. All my fish have grown good but I went bare bottom and painted it to look like sand. Needless to say I won't be going back to sand it is still really hard to keep as clean as I want.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb400/Jminasalli/009-5.jpg
http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb400/Jminasalli/010-4.jpg

Something for you to consider over sand. I got all my fish at 3". Bare bottom is the way to go trust me.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Second Hand Pat]

Perhaps consider this. Start with BB and get use to the care, feeding and WC needed for 3 inch juvies. Ensure you can keep them healthy and growing. You can always add sand once they are grown up.

[strawberryblonde]

There are some really gorgeous BB tanks on these forums. Justin's is one of them, but maybe some others will put pics in here so you can see them.

I started out with the idea of raising 4" discus in a lightly planted tank. What a pain! It worked and they grew really well, but I had to spend enormous amounts of time cleaning my darned tank. When I upgraded to a larger tank I started removing things one at a time till I ended up with a BB tank. LOL

I can't tell you how much quicker and easier it is to clean BB tanks. Now with mine, my intention was always to stay BB just till they all reached 6" (I grew them in two batches, 3 months apart), so now that they are all well above 6" I've added sand, one piece of DW and several potted plants. I only had to live with my bare look for 4 months, not bad, huh?

Oh and the type of sand you purchase will make a huge difference in how easy it is to clean! My first purchase was a fabulous looking Sunset Gold sand by CaribSea. Too fine (0.1mm - 0.3mm), kept going up the syphon tube instead of the poop...ugh.

The second purchase was CaribSea again, because I love their colors, but this time it was a super white Crystal River sand (0.2mm - 0.5mm). You wouldn't think that it would make a difference since the grain is still so small, but wow, it really does! This sand stays ON the floor of the tank and not in my syphon tube!

[judy]

Someone in another thread slathered silicone on the tank bottom, covered it with sand, let it dry, cleaned out the excess, and has the equivalent of a barebottom tank that looks like it has sand!! Brilliant, wish I'd learned that trick before taking my new tank BB. But even so-- BB is definitely the best. I have done planted substrate, sand substrate with potted plants, and BB with potted plants, and the BB is by far the best way to go. It also makes it so much easier to pay close attention to your landscaping and change it up when the mood strikes... which, with this woman, is often (once the living room and TV room have been re-arranged for the umpteenth time)!!
PS. video of my bb is on the planted tank section.

[ericatdallas]

Epoxy might not be the material.. but I saw on one of the Reef forums how a guy put sand in his tank and poured a coat of epoxy (?). When it hardened, it looked like sand as well. He was able to form terrain with it and I believe he tested with no fish fatalities. I bet it would be possible to make little holes in the hardened sand and fill it with real sand for the purpose of potting plants or leave it empty but still use it to hide plant roots.

[gerrard00]

I'm thinking of starting out with 2.5'' - 3'' size fish, are these "juvies", as you can see I have a long way to go. I'm planning on only going an inch or so deep with the sand, and will be in our living room so we want to give it a little ambiance, for the fish as well.

I grew my juvies out in a lightly planted tank and I really regret it. If you have the patience, consider going bb for the first year and then in the second year you can turn your tank into more of a full fledged display tank, if you like. Just something to think about.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing.......have a look at SD library......great info to start with.......quick & easy.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/index.shtml

[bigjohnson]

Thanks everyone, It's nice to have all this help, I signed on to another forum before this one and still haven't gotten any replies...i've taken it out of my favorites...i think i'm goin with "second hand pat", i'm going bb for a while and get used to the care and get 'em growing a bit before going any further. i look forward to getting more info from all of you!

[Skip]

knowledge is power!

[bigjohnson]

by the way jarret8x, very nice tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks everyone, It's nice to have all this help, I signed on to another forum before this one and still haven't gotten any replies...i've taken it out of my favorites...i think i'm goin with "second hand pat", i'm going bb for a while and get used to the care and get 'em growing a bit before going any further. i look forward to getting more info from all of you!

Sounds like a plan :grin:

[bigjohnson]

Hey pat...just noticed you are in central fla...small world, me too. N.E. brevard county.

[shoveltrash]

since joining this forum I have removed approx 85% of my white gravel substrate......and thinking honestly of going completely BB. if you do, consider painting the underside of your tank bottom or putting a light colored liner underneath - I wish I could do this now but the logistics of removing all of my fish for it is daunting. if I remember correctly, Discus respond well to light substrate (for me it means a decrease in peppering of my PBs).
good luck & post updates, can't wait to hear how it goes for you :D

(jarret8x I LOVE your tank!!!!)

[afriend]

bigjohnson,

Welcome to a really great forum with lots of good people willing to help. I understand that you have a 29 gallon with tropicals and that you plan to have a larger tank containing discus. Do you have any experience with discus? I raised tropicals for many years and was somewhat successful. Then I decided to go with discus and must admit that my initial experience with the discus was a disaster. Your plan to research this first is right on!!!!!!!!

As you probably now by now, many people try to have a discus tank and end up with a disaster just as I did (as a mater of fact, I repeated the disaster after my first try as every single discus died). I have since learned that the area of greatest significance is water quality. This involves water filtration (including the biofilter), Ph control, temperature control, and water exchanges. Start by measuring the parameters of your water source. Find out if the parameters change with time, and how much. Then you need to decide what needs to be done to to your water source to make it acceptable for your fish. While doing this you have to keep in mind that water exchanges are necessary and this may mean that lots of water is necessary. If you do not automate the water exchanges, then a commitment is necessary to keep up with them manually.

I don't know if you have prior experience with discus or not. If you do have experience, you probably don't need my advice so just disregard the above and accept my apology. If you don't have experience, don't let what I say discourage you, as the rewards are great. Any and all problems can be overcome. You are taking the right first step by doing your research. Good luck with your endeavor. I'm retired and willing to help if you want, you just have to ask.

Paul

[bigjohnson]

thanks paul, no automated water exchange system planned. i'm looking into having a 55 gal container for aging new water and another to remove old water from the tank, both powered by a pump to speed up the process. it does seem to be a little daunting, reading all that's involved, but am going to try it anyway...it seems the benefit will be worth the extra attention to the water quality.

[judy]

oh, yeah, it will be worth it. People who come over and see my discus tank literally gasp. They are the most beautiful fish anyone of them have seen-- and the biggest. And they are wonderful to just watch... the best mood enhancer ever. Especially while sipping a nice glass of chilled, unoaked, dry white wine. preferably a dry reisling. but a gewurtztraminer is also lovely.
And after awhile, I found that maintaining the tank also offers a nice, tranquil experience...

[afriend]

thanks paul, no automated water exchange system planned. i'm looking into having a 55 gal container for aging new water and another to remove old water from the tank, both powered by a pump to speed up the process. it does seem to be a little daunting, reading all that's involved, but am going to try it anyway...it seems the benefit will be worth the extra attention to the water quality.

bigthompson,

Just curious, if you have two 55 gal containers, why not consider an automated system? How much water exchange are you willing to do daily with a manual system?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey pat...just noticed you are in central fla...small world, me too. N.E. brevard county.

Bigjohnson, I'm in Orlando and my parents are in Indian Harbour Bch. I grew up in Melbourne...small world. BTW what is your name...seems funny calling someone bigjohnson ;)

[afriend]

oh, yeah, it will be worth it. People who come over and see my discus tank literally gasp. They are the most beautiful fish anyone of them have seen-- and the biggest. And they are wonderful to just watch... the best mood enhancer ever. Especially while sipping a nice glass of chilled, unoaked, dry white wine. preferably a dry reisling. but a gewurtztraminer is also lovely.
And after awhile, I found that maintaining the tank also offers a nice, tranquil experience...

Judy,

Me too. My discus actually interact with me. They spend a lot of time watching me. If I sit in a different location, they reposition themselves in the tank. When I get up off the couch, they start swimming around begging for food. My wife does not feed them, and they are capable of recognizing between the two of us. I can tell this by the way they react differently between her and myself whenever either of us approach the tank. They are absolutely beautiful.

Just curious, but where did you get them and how long have you had discus?

Paul

[judy]

About two-thirds of mine are my own, as I like to keep one from each batch my mated pairs make. I will have to stop doing that, or sell off a few of the now almost-grown babies. No room left. The others I got from the only LFS in town I trust (I also get all my reef stuff from him) who is almost the only guy who gets in some varieties of discus (mostly blues and only occasionally other strains) and knows how to handle them (I have seen juvies for sale in one store with tank water temps of 76!! and yelled at the proprietor.). But I will be getting a few of Forrest's discus through Canadian Aqua Farm soon, and am very excited about that.
I swapped back my red melon mated pair to my LFS guy (kept two of the babies and they look great) for store credit and two young snakeskins awhile back, because I wanted to reduce the number of mated pairs I had. Wouldn't you know it-- the two snakeskins grew up to be a mated pair! argh.:)

[afriend]

Judy,

Forest also supplies discus for Kenny's Discus. Kenny is one of the sponsers of this forum. If you havn't done so yet, check out his website. Kenny has just got to be the top rated discus provider on the internet. He has my utmost respect and provies top quality discus. He also knows how to prepare them for shipping so that they are stressed the absolute minimum. However maybe you already know this.

Bad luck for you to get a mated pair so easily, others should be so lucky.

[judy]

Yeah, I am familiar with Kenny, but I am in Canada... Canadian Aqua farms is also a sponsor, and the fish land then in Vancouver for a week-long calm-down there, and then shipping to Winnipeg, which is where I am located. Trying the ship them from the U.S. can be a Customs nightmare for an individual, and brokerage fees are obscene,

[afriend]

bigjhompson,

Would like to point you in the same direction as seanyuki:

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/index.shtml

If you have read this, go back and reread it two or three more times.

Also warlock summed it all up: Knowledge is power.

Paul

[afriend]

Yeah, I am familiar with Kenny, but I am in Canada... Canadian Aqua farms is also a sponsor, and the fish land then in Vancouver for a week-long calm-down there, and then shipping to Winnipeg, which is where I am located. Trying the ship them from the U.S. can be a Customs nightmare for an individual, and brokerage fees are obscene,

Sorry, didn't know that. But at least if you get them from Forest, then you know that they are good stock.

[judy]

yeah, for sure... and back to bigjohnson's thread (sorry for the brief highjack, BJ), good stock is important once you have learned the essential discus keeping methods of clean, stable water and good food...

[GrizX]

Hi Judy, i am in regina , sk area i also am getting my discus from canadian aqua farm soon, i also get some from discus paradise in montreal check them out they have good quality fish that i have purchased many many moons ago

[GrizX]

They also have same day shipping via westjet and they are brilliant with there care i was there this summer, looking at them check them out discusparadise.com