Aquariums in Hong Kong and Singapore

[wild_discus]

Hi - I am visiting these 2 countries in Dec. I would like to "investigate and report back" the high quality wilds that are rumored to be exported to Asia :).

Are there any well-known shops in these 2 countries the forum would recommend (or want :)) me to visit? I'd like to spend some time being a tourist touring aquarium shops.

Thanks.

[Discus Origins]

There are a few in Hong Kong, Singapore actually just started receiving initial shipments (from what I hear) of decent wild discus so not sure how many shops will carry them. In Hong Kong just walk in to the nicest aquarium stores and ask to see their 'best' fish. Lets hope you find some beauties to take pictures of and we get inside information on whether these prices are true or am I getting hot air from the suppliers ;)

[hedut]

there will be discus contest on end of month DCM here for more detail http://www.discusclubsg.com/ and usually they will sale some fish on second or last day. If you planning to visit some discus farm you should rent some car or by cab cause those nice fish farm most of them like in suburb and no public transport beside cab.

[illumnae]

China, Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have been receiving premium discus for some time now.

In Hong Kong, you can try taking a walk down Tung Choi Street (the locals call it "Goldfish Street") near Prince Edward MTR station (their metro/tube system). However, do note that majority of the street-facing shops are catering to planted tank and marine hobbyists. You need to keep in mind that the ground floor stores have 2nd and 3rd floors above them that usually house the wild caught fish (clarification: not the same stores as the ground floor stores, separate stores are running on the higher floors, so the first floor store may be a planted tank store, 2nd floor may cater to apistogramma hobbyists, 3rd floor may be an exotic reptile store etc.).

When I was there 2 years back, a friendly hobbyist I ran into brought me to several out of the way, hidden shops that specialize in wildcaught discus and plecos. Those are where the best quality wild discus are too be found. Unfortunately, I was just following my guide around and cannot recall specifically where these stores are, just that the best 2 of them are around the vicinity of Tung Choi Street, but not on the street itself.

Singapore has not yet been blessed with high quality wilds thus far. Plenty of medium quality, but nothing truly spectacular. I have always wanted to keep some top quality discus, so I have recently put in quite some effort to put a local guy in touch with Hudson. They are making arrangements to finally bring some quality discus into Singapore. This will hopefully get the wild discus hobby on fire and we will hopefully start to see good quality discus make regular appearances here. The first shipment is likely to arrive mid-December, with the second shipment hopefully arriving shortly thereafter.

Till then, Singapore would be better to view nice artificial strains of discus. Albinos and spotteds are particularly popular here, as are the red based strains. If you follow hedut's directions to the discus club here in Singapore and arrange for visits to discus farms here, you won't see many quality wilds...but you will definitely get an eyeful of nice bred forms.

Edit: edited some clarifications on Hong Kong's "Goldfish Street"

[wild_discus]

[QUOTE=illumnae;827577]
In Hong Kong, you can try taking a walk down Tung Choi Street (the locals call it "Goldfish Street") near Prince Edward MTR station (their metro/tube system). QUOTE]

Hi - if anyone in this forum knows of specific shops on Tung Choi St where I can see quality wilds, pls let me know. thx

[litlit]

If you want get wild discus , i recommend you go to DAS workshop
the address is: Flat F, Room 211, 2/F, Selwyn Industrial Building, 404 Kwun Tong Road, Kowloon, HONG KONG
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSA-Workshop-%E7%87%8A%E6%9E%97%E6%B0%B4%E6%97%8F%E3%83%B1%E4%B D%9C%E5%AE%A4/165514576808491?v=wall

[wild_discus]

If you want get wild discus , i recommend you go to DAS workshop
the address is: Flat F, Room 211, 2/F, Selwyn Industrial Building, 404 Kwun Tong Road, Kowloon, HONG KONG
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSA-Workshop-%E7%87%8A%E6%9E%97%E6%B0%B4%E6%97%8F%E3%83%B1%E4%B D%9C%E5%AE%A4/165514576808491?v=wall

OW - he has pics of wilds that I have never seen before.

[Discus Origins]

guess we found the $400-500 wild fish.....exchange rate is about $7.80HK to $1 US.

[kaj.p]

No supplier is going to sell me a fish for $100 when they can get $500 for the same fish from Asia or Europe.


guess we found the $400-500 wild fish.....exchange rate is about $7.80HK to $1 US.

Thats correct Mark but that its not the suppliers price its the retail price :) And one the website u can also se "Wild Discus Special Price as low as HK$280"

[Discus Origins]

Sure, Kaj....and would those fish be the 'best' fish from supplier? And normal retail price usually 2x the supplier price, so would you think they only paid $100US for the fish that's selling for $400-500? :)

I think I just notice why you comment on supplier price. I just went into the 'Super Quality Wilds' photos, but now I see there are many pictures of your friend Hudson's tank pictures also.

My comment was just on price of fish posted, regardless of supplier.

[kaj.p]

Thats also true Mark I buy fish from Hudson. But i also regulary visit and buy fish the best shops of wild discus in Europe like Diskusmarkt, Diskus speciale, Diskus Royal and Hustinx.
But i have never seen those prices that you mention. My point was just to say that that in my view the price level between the United States o Europe is about the same.
So for me it's not about who.
But back to the thread, In May, I visited lots of shops and farms in Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. I just saw a few wilds in one place Tony Tans.

[Discus Origins]

Kaj, please visit Mr. Watanabe's shop the famous Thoroughbred Aquariums at www.t-aqua.com in Japan. He is known for having some of the best wilds available in the world. It is not easily translated, but the left column can be individually clicked to bring up his fish and prices. He has a variety of quality and prices available but here is a link to some of his highest quality fish:

http://t-aquarium.com/shopbrand/007/O

Conversion of yen to US dollar is 78 yen to 1 US. All the fish listed for 58900 yen = $768 US. The most expensive one at 79800 yen = $1025

Here is an article by Heiko Bleher on the store:

http://www.aquapress-bleher.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=242&Itemid=65

So as you can see, just because you have not personally experienced the price points of other markets that will pay more $$ for the best fish doesn't mean it is not happening. Thoroughbred Aquarium sells many top quality discus at these prices. He is willing to pay more than any of us for the best fish, so he is going to get the best fish. That's the supply and demand in certain markets of the world.

And sorry for distracting the thread....I believe we hope that you get to see a lot of nice fish, especially wild discus on your visit abroad! :)

[mckchu]

Hi "wild_discus" - I just read this thread. Have you visited HK yet? Or am I little too late???

There are not many wild discus specialist stock in HK. There are a few, but availability of wild fish is very limited. DAS probably has the largest, stable collection in HK. There are 3 main street level discus specialist stores on Goldfish Street in HK, but they don't stock much wilds. Sometimes they get some heckels in but nothing like the Bluemoon or Blue face from Nhamunda. There used to have a few 2nd floor stores that had a few good selections - but because of the higher price when you compare to domestic strains from Malaysia - demand for wilds are not high in HK.

There are often people asking for wilds - but the demand in HK isn't enough to keep a store making a good business.

One reason wilds are more expensive in HK, and also (especially) high in Japan - is because of the high property rental cost! In order to make a profitable business - the retail price of the fish includes the cost of rental, labour, losses in transit and how much space & time the fish takes up! Given the same fish from Hudson - if we assume he sells to an importer in US, HK and Japan at the same price, the retail price will be significantly difference! The cost of the actual fish is probably the least cost % in the make up of the retail price.

This is also the reason why not many wilds are being stock in HK stores. Given the expense cost of space in HK, a store owner can easily have a tank full of Malaysian full spotted reds turn around in a few days. He can re-stock the tank with another tank full of another strain. A tank in the store can easily turn around at least twice for domestic strains. But if wilds are kept -might be the first 5 to 10 fish get sold quickly, but rest of the fish takes a month to sell! Then it's very bad return on investment for the expensive tank space.

That is why many specialist stores in HK, whether they are wild discus, rare pleco, exotic cichlids ... Are mostly on 2nd floor store or at industrial buildings converted to aquarium stores in HK. Once rental is lower, they can let the fish wait longer for their prospective buyer!

[jimg]

so then importers there pay pretty much the same as here in the us? and it's only the people/customers that pay higher prices due to the importers higher costs or rents etc and not the increased amount the exporters get due to higher demand?

[Discus Origins]

well that would be something I would like to know....since I'm being told by Hudson, Hugo and WBSabby that they are all able to sell top quality wilds to Asia/Europe for double to triple what I'm being charged when I ask for the 'best' fish they have.

[roclement]

More than anything, I believe that the market in Asia is well established, with long term ties between importers and exporters.
The exporters from Brasil, etc need to fill their existing orders from these long term customers before they start offering fish to new markets, it is simple supply and demand, there is a limited number of high quality fish that can be offered to buyers, bigger buyers get first pick and so on and so forth...simple market supply and demand.

Of course this is all speculation on my part but if had a supply business with limited quantities, I would offer my best product to my best customers first, and then on to the others. I can't say I blame any of the exporters for doing business this way as long as they are honest about what they can indeed deliver.

Rodrigo

[mckchu]

Higher quality & more expensive fish DO go to Japan. I was saying, given the same cost of fish, retail cost would be more expensive in places where cost of living is higher. As mentioned, Japan network & channel is well established and demand is high. The average cost per box to there is over US$200 - the % cost per fish is much lower if the fish inside the box is more expensive. Japanese are willing to pay higher price for quality fish - so importers are willing to pay more, knowing their fish will sell. What seems high to us, say $400, might be normal to them. Exporters much prefer to select better fish and charge higher for established market.

In HK - a few factors made the wilds hard to find. We noticed that there are not too many younger generations of fish hobbyists ... Not just for wild discus but overall aquarium trade. Fish keeping no longer as popular in HK as the old days. We used to local Fish store in every area and most people have a fish tank of some sort at home. These days, 90% of all fish stores are located in Goldfish Street, and everyone of them is telling you how hard it is to make a living! Recently a marine store closed due to an increase of 100% rental.

[April]

They aren't going to Japan right now...apparently I heard from Oliver lucansus when he was in Vancouver a that the market is flat right now since the tsunami. He said most of the big petshops in Tokyo are gone. Bankrupt.
They aren't buying wilds..etc.
but traditionally yes..buyers go to Asia and buy tankfuls of premium discus at premium prices.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.235341,-123.185116

[wild_discus]

mkchu - I will be in Hong Kong over Xmas. How can I get to DAS? tx

[hekdiscus]

Dear friends, I'm in this business since 1995, the Asian market and I know how few people, I've been there dozens of time since the 90's until today, and hold regular sales of weekly discus and marine fish to Japan, China, and other markets, and they keep buying, buying and looking for the best and willing to pay more for it, it's true and it is no speculation ,In 2009 I was doing an Asian tour visiting all my clients and Michael received me very well in Hong Kong, he took me to get to know the local cuisine with the best sea food in the world.This week we have no space to the airlines to send the requests Asians already canceled some sales by not having space to deliver the order, the market is still hot

Hudson

[mckchu]

Hey Hudson - we can visit the seaside market for more seafood when you come to HK in 2012! Just bring a jumbo Nhamunda Royal with you, and the meal is on me!

[mckchu]

mkchu - I will be in Hong Kong over Xmas. How can I get to DAS? tx

The website and address is on an earlier reply in this thread. Drop me a PM - if time allow, I can take you there :)

[hekdiscus]

OW - he has pics of wilds that I have never seen before.
Hi
All these were my fish, H & K Brazil

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

Hey Hudson - we can visit the seaside market for more seafood when you come to HK in 2012! Just bring a jumbo Nhamunda Royal with you, and the meal is on me!

Hey friend I'll accept the offer ........
and I'll pick those lobsters aged 50 cm .... and also the giant crab,

can be prepared, my friend

Hudson

[seanyuki]

Besides fish shops in Mong Kok and from what I have heard there a HK Aquarium Plaza in Quarry Bay & worth going too.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hong_Kong_Aquarium_Plaza

[mckchu]

Besides fish shops in Mong Kok and from what I have heard there a HK Aquarium Plaza in Quarry Bay & worth going too.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hong_Kong_Aquarium_Plaza

That place is gone couple of years ago! It's now a junk market, only has 2 aquarium stores there now.

[seanyuki]

Thanks for the updates......things has really changed in HKG since I left there in 2000......those days have to go to Mong Kok railway station 5 am to see fish/equipments.... discus already prepacked in bags for sell to potential buyers .............. b4 heading to Tung Choi St in the morning.......and made many friends there.......



That place is gone couple of years ago! It's now a junk market, only has 2 aquarium stores there now.

[bulldogmadmax]

Tokyo Japan area 1 Very nice Tefe Royal red spotted sale for $2100.

[wild_discus]

Tokyo Japan area 1 Very nice Tefe Royal red spotted sale for $2100.

Can you post the picture of this fish? tx

[JamesHe]

If you have chance to go Guangzhou in China. I have one place to recommend.
It's about 2 hours trip by train from Hong Kong. not sure if you need China Visa or not.

Here is the blog: it's Chinese but you can try Google translate
muyudo.blog.163.com/album

Mr. Zhao imports top quality wild discus from Brazil. he got lots in stock before the Christmas.

[JamesHe]

The retail price of top quality Alenquer Cuipeua in China is between ￥3500-￥4500, roughly US$550-700

[jimmyjoe]

Am I seeing something wrong here, I can understand a nice quality discus going for $550-$700 big ones in the far east because it probably costs alot more for shipping the right way from S.America but from S.America to the states has to be cheaper in shipping . This is just IMO, or am I not seeing the whole picture. Jim in Ohio

[Discus Origins]

Jim,

Its actually not that much more to ship from SA to US vs SA to Asia and it is dependent on country. Believe it or not, there is a huge difference from Brazil to US vs Colombia to US. I can ship 8-10 boxes from Colombia for less than $500, from Brazil I got charged $1600 for 7 boxes of fish! You do the math, but I think its more about 'government' getting their hands into the fees in different countries. You can ship from Brazil to China for about the same price I paid.

[jimmyjoe]

Jim,

Its actually not that much more to ship from SA to US vs SA to Asia and it is dependent on country. Believe it or not, there is a huge difference from Brazil to US vs Colombia to US. I can ship 8-10 boxes from Colombia for less than $500, from Brazil I got charged $1600 for 7 boxes of fish! You do the math, but I think its more about 'government' getting their hands into the fees in different countries. You can ship from Brazil to China for about the same price I paid. Sorry for saying this Mark , but it just doesn't seem right goverment keep making money and we just give it to them. Jim in Ohio

[Discus Origins]

You're right Jim, I def agree with you. The big difference is how much Brazilian taxes/fees were vs Colombian fees. The airlines charges a flat fee per kg of cargo, funny huh?