Cull or not to Cull, that is the question...

[DLock3d]

I recently swapped some of my juvenile angelfish for 12 sterabai cories this past Sunday at a swap meet. All but 2 of the original 12 are dead. Four of my angelfish (quarter to half dollar size) have died (Maybe more, I'll have to assess when I get home). I have a total of 30 - 50 angelfish left, the two cories, two blue eyed plecos, (that I really like) and about a dozen CRS.

There's nothing visibly wrong with any of the fish. The only thing that comes to mind as to why the cories died is that the water was pretty cold at the swap and by the time I got them to my tanks to float. But why have 4 or more angelfish died when they didn't have any exposure to varying temps? I did a 70% water change last night but I guess the water could still be foul. Maybe there's no actual disease to speak of just high levels of ammonia. I'll have to test that when I get home. The only issue with trying to treat/test/figure out if there is an issue is the chance that I could cross contaminate. I know how to be super careful, wash my hands not cross any equipment water ect. Still, there's always a small chance.

I'm not worried about the monetary loss, the real frustration is that something could have potentially been brought into my house.

I'm not asking for solutions. I'm just asking for thoughts and I'm not filling out a disease form because I don't know that there is a disease. If I knew that there was, this would be a "I just culled a tank" thread.

Before everyone screams QT QT. The tank that I put the fish in was more or less my QT tank. I didn't put them in my show tank and I certainly didn't put them in my discus tank.

So, to cull the entire tank and bleach away or not to cull and give it more time?

[Skip]

did ya use prime during WC ? :)

[DLock3d]

Good question and yes I did. A lot of times its the obvious stuff that kills us (or our fish). The cories started dying from Sunday night.

[Skip]

i picked up some sterbai awhile back.. and one died in the bag.. and the rest died within a couple of hours.. my other fish were find in that tank.. non discus tank.. idk why either..

[DLock3d]

Honestly, I'm more comfortable getting fish at my LFS than I am at a swap me now. To date I haven't received a diseased fish at the LFS I by from (I don't buy fish from chains).

[damba]

Sterbi like it hot but cold shouldnt harm them. Indeed i use very cold water changes to spawn them. Whats your oxygen levels like? Can yoy see anything on the cories. Has your water supply changed? I am thinking the big water change added some kind of infection triggered a stress reaction and death... I lost a pair of laetacara thayeri in similar circs when i added so hoplo cats. This probably doesnt help much.
Tom
Ps can you post any pics of the deceased?

Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk

[DLock3d]

They've been dying since the day that I got them, long before the water change. Nothing on them to see and no pictures because they've been thrown out. Water supply would be a concern for me if I didn't have two other tanks with prolific fish.

[jimg]

imo without checking water no reason to guess on other things at this point.

[DLock3d]

I'm going to check the water when I get home, my main point is that I would be hard pressed to think it was the source considering I don't have any issues with my other tanks.

[jimg]

could be viral if you see no symptoms and water is all good. nothing worse than them dying with no symptoms.

[dadecountyalan]

i am the only one so far that has voted to cull. and the reason i did is because my bestfriends tank last year had a similar situation. he had 9 cories and out of nowhere they started dying one by one. eventually he was down to 2. then with no symptoms at all 1 of his discus died. so he took out the remaining cories did a 100% waterchange and dosed the tank with a heap of salt.

[kent1963]

How long is the time frame? Its possible this will sort it self out. I would wait 2 weeks or so ( being extra careful not to cross-contaminate) and see what happens. Your not really out anything to wait and see.

[DLock3d]

Nitrate - 10
Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - 0
Ph - 7.2
Ph - out of the tap 8.2

So, let's assume the Ph "crash" is what killed the Angels. What killed the cories(They started dying Sunday, the first Angels died this AM after last nights water change)? Why are the fish in my other tanks fine? I tested the discus tank as well (Ph - 7.2). ( I had a buddy fill up the vile after touching the Angel tank, lol.) They are fine...

I've tested my tap water before by aerating for 24 hours. I've never had more than a .2 swing. I guess I have to start aging my water now for the winter? I've been in this house for almost two years with no water source problems. That's going to put a serious crimp in things for me.

[jimg]

i wouldn't call 8.2 to 7.2 a crash and don't think that would have bothered them at all. i would consider good wc and hit with qc . could be some sort of protists or viral

[nc0gnet0]

Is save the blued eyed pleco's and nuke the rest an option?


Rick

[DLock3d]

Well sure Rick but if I keep them I might as well keep everything else. If there is disease, which I don't think there is. Then saving the BEP's and trashing the rest is kind of pointless.

[Sean Buehrle]

Coupled with the stress of being bagged and moved and depending on how long the fish were in the bags, a 1 point drop in ph is my vote.

You should be letting your water sit over night for sure.

Good luck.

[DLock3d]

Sean, the cories died before the water change. The Angels that have died were not bagged or disturbed other than the water change.

[Sean Buehrle]

Sean, the cories died before the water change. The Angels that have died were not bagged or disturbed other than the water change.

Ok I see. I wasn't paying a lot of attention, I seen ph drops of 1 point and the word crash and assumed there was a difference in water they went into. My bad.

To tell you the truth and I really would do this, I would take any fish that were new and cull them in the yard, empty the tank and sterilize everything that came into contact with them.

Any fish you took with you and brang back home that are dying would go too.

It's always better to cut off and be safe. I couldn't imagine taking a chance with all my fish over a few.

Good luck.

[DLock3d]

Thanks Sean. So ive lost a few more Angels. The only thing odd that I've noticed is that a few of them have red noses. I'm assuming this is from bumping into the sides of the tank but idk.

[jimg]

Thanks Sean. So ive lost a few more Angels. The only thing odd that I've noticed is that a few of them have red noses. I'm assuming this is from bumping into the sides of the tank but idk.bacterial/viral

[DLock3d]

Jim, what makes you say that?

[jimg]

Jim, what makes you say that?

many times, not always, red in the nose area can be bacterial/viral related. same as it shows up in the fins with septicemia and from what I have heard could also be viral (sure about bacterial not positive about viral)

[DLock3d]

Just noticed white feces on several of the Angels. I'll probably be culling tomorrow. Pretty lame... 50 or so juvenile angels 12 or so RCS and two blue eyed pleco's. My guess is that as the cories died the Angels picked at them and got infected. I didn't realize parasites could kill that fast. Oh well... I suppose I avoided a disaster.

[DLock3d]

I was planning on netting and flushing everything. Pouring a bottle of bleach in the tank and letting it run like that for a few hours before draining with everything in it. (sponges, HOB, heater). Sound like a solid plan?

[Sean Buehrle]

I was planning on netting and flushing everything. Pouring a bottle of bleach in the tank and letting it run like that for a few hours before draining with everything in it. (sponges, HOB, heater). Sound like a solid plan?

That's what I would do, but that's me.

Fish dying with no signs of sickness, new fish on top of it.

Your first priority is making sure you don't lose any home fish.

I'd get rid of them.

[jimg]

white feces that fast is another sign of bacteria. bleach at 200 ppm (about 1 tbls per g+-) for at least 1/2 hr then alcohol for 15mins then air dry is what I have been doing

[DLock3d]

Update: So I ended up not culling the fish. About 30 angelfish died. I broke down the 55 Gallon and bleached it out. (I used way too much) Anyway, the remaining fish were then put into a ten gallon which is much more manageable without cross contamination. The remaining fish I have are about 10 quarter size angels, 2 cories, one Blue eye pleco ( I had a jumper the night I moved them) and three or four shrimp.

I recently put one of the smaller angels I had in my community tank into the tank with the previously affected fish.

So far he show's no signs of sickness and none of the remaining fish show problems either. I haven't treated the 55 I broke down or the ten gallon that they are in now with anything. For the most part, they all seem healthy. Is it possible that the bacteria would dissipate on its own or is this still something I should treat the fish for to reduce chance of contamination in the future?

I'd like to trade them in to the LSF but I don't want some poor sucker getting my fish and contaminating his tanks either.