155G (589L) Discus Community Planted Tank (low tech) - Serenity

[Joker]

Hello fellow Discus lovers. This is my first post on what appears to be the most comprehensive Discus community on the net (well of what I have found - no disrespect to other sites) so I think I will be in good stead to learn alot from you all. I have kept many fish tanks over the years but I really have my heart set on creating a planted Discus community tank. I recently purchased on ebay a 5ft tank with dimensions of 153cm x 70cm x 55cm (sorry for the metric measurements as I see many of you are from North America, but I am Australian) and it is a Cleair setup (black stank and matching hood with rounded glass corners at the front) which I think looks sweet. I have not yet set it up as I am moving into a new house in about a months time. So while this time passes I thought it would be an opportune time to present to you my setup and ask your thoughts. This tank will be situated in our living room and I have decided to name it - Serenity (which is what I hope to achieve). I am a very busy individual (run my own company) so therefore I would like to create a low tech planted tank. Here we go..

Tank & Filtration & Lighting


Cleair 153cm x 70cm x 55cm (I have decided that I am going to paint the back of the tank black - advice welcome)
Aquaone 2250 (with UV Steralizer built in)
2 x 5ft T5 lights (please recommend tubes) which are built into the hood
CO2 unit (please recommend)
300w Jager heater


I also have a Eheim 2227 (wet/dry) that I was thinking of adding to the mix but this depends on the height as there is a restriction I read about in the manual somewhere (between the water surface and the bottom of the filter) which I think I recall it said would upset the rhythmic function if exceeded.

Substrate


White silica sand or a black gravel or both


I have read a few threads on here and some people say that the white sand (as long as it the correct type that doesn't alter the PH) is a hit with the Discus so I am still not sure which way to jump. At one stage I was thinking of having the plants buried in the black gravel in the corners (like a quarter circle shape) and a white sandy area in the middle with some driftwood at the back.

Plants


Java Moss
Java Fern
Anubias Nana
Some Red leafed plants to break up the colour


Inhabitants


6 x Discus (Red Turks, Altum Flora, Snakeskin, Leopard)
20 x Cardinal Tetras
10 x Rummy Nose Tetras
10 x Harlequin Rasboras or Serpae Tetras
5 x Corydoas Sterbai
5 x Ottos
3 x Assassin Snails (if I can find them)
5 x Marble Hatchets
2 x Blue Rams
2 x Bolivian Butterflys
Red Cherry Shrimp or Crystal Reds
1 x Clown Pleco (I think they don't grow too big and won't annoy the Discus)


This may be too many fish so I might have to make some alterations so please advise. I also have read about a Discus breeder (or importer) Rob in Brisbane, Australia (on this forum) which is only about an hour and a half's drive from where I live. I will try and make contact with him after I have got the ground work sorted as his Discus appear to be the goods. It turns out I was talking to a mate in Brisbane and he thinks it is the same Rob that his Dad used to buy Discus off some years back...will be interesting if it is.

I am so sorry for the long post and I will post pics of the tank (empty) so you can see what I am working with shortly. :D

[Joker]

Ok so here are 2 quick snaps. I don't have a great camera so apologies for the quality or lack there of.

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Cheers.

[shoveltrash]

NICE tank! I'm a newbie here, so won't presume to advise you.....however based on my own experience, don't use gravel for substrate! (hides decaying food, etc)
I had plants in my tank w/gravel but it was rough on them, because I was obsessed with getting the substrate *clean* and uprooted them every time LOL. I'm now minus plants, and bare bottom. not sure about your stock list (sounds like a lot to me, but then that is a big tank). good luck with it! can't wait to see the finished product :).

btw I have spent HOURS here on this forum just reading! you are right, it is the most comprehensive source for info online re Discus :). any question you have, do an advanced search & you are such to come up with answers!

[laborelch]

that is a really nice tank!
Depending on what strain of discus you plan on getting I would avoid black background or dark substrate. Pigeon bloods will likely show more pepper and other strains may darken up too. As substrate, pool filter sand works well (easier to clean than gravel because dirt collects on top).
Red cherry shrimp are a snack for discus, make sure you have enough plants for them to hide.

[Joker]

@ shoveltrash - Thanks, I am really looking forward to this project. You are really a newbie with 212 posts? I really want to have some kind of substrate as I am not a fan of the bare bottom look....but I recognize the benefit to cleaning it. I personally have used black gravel in a tank before with plants and never managed to uproot any, but perhaps I wasn't as obsessed as you ;) You are spot on about how easy it is to search and retrieve an answer.

@ laborelch - Thank you also for your compliment. If I do a combination of a black background and white pool filter sand do you think that would work for the Discus? What sort of plants can I use with pool filter sand (the only time I have used sand - marine and african tanks - there hasn't been any plants) so the roots bind and what depth should it be (don't think you would want it to deep or you would get anaerobic pockets building up)? I will create plenty of hiding spots for the RCS.

[peleg38]

Joker,
Tank looks great. I love the excitment of setting up a new tank. I have some opinions to share on the setup. They are just my ideas so take them for what they are worth.

Substrate: You may want to take some time looking into plant friendly substrates. This will depend on how serious you get into the planted aspect of the show tank. It would be a bummer to get really into plants and want to start working with more exotic ones only to find that a different substrate would make things easier. There are lots to choose from (depending on budget) and in my experience they work fine with Discus. Some ideas you be ADA aquasoil, ecocomplete, Flourite, Turface.

Plants: You may want to expand your plant list. The ones you have listed are great beginner plants and are also very low maintenance. I would recommend some swords and crypts. You probalby already know that there are several varieties of java jerm and anubias to choose from. Mixing up the varieties looks nice. I think that most red plants have higher light requirements and your proposed setup is low light. If you want low maintenance plants I would not recommend CO2. It is like steroids for plants and you will be doing a lot of trimming. It can also be difficult to balance CO2 injection with supporting the fishes requirements. I have found theplantedtank.net forums to be very helpful.

Fish: I have found that generally if you choose to have discus you will want to minimize the amount of other tankmates. The high water temperatures of Discus (85F) can be hard on other species. I just have plecos, corys, and discus in my tank. I would recommend a bushy nosed pleco for algae control. They only get 6" and are champs are eating algae. In my experience rams and corys do not mix a all. I have found the rams to be extremely aggressive with corys and discus also. I had one ram that would get a swimming start from accross the tank and literally ram itself into my Discus. I love you choice of Cory's by the way. I actually just picked up 4 more for myself and got a killer deal ($10).

Anyway those are my thoughts. Can't wait to see how it all turns out. Good luck

[shoveltrash]

peleg38 that's great info re plant-friendly substrate - I'd like to do some potted plants, so am filing away your advice :).



shoveltrash - Thanks, I am really looking forward to this project. You are really a newbie with 212 posts? LOL!!!
I have become so *obsessed* with Discus caretaking that I spend all my spare time here.......much to my SO's dismay. so, to answer your question, yes I'm a newbie to this particular brand of fish-keeping.

good luck - and I'd love to see updated photos as your tank progresses!

[peleg38]

No problem shoveltrash. Not sure of your budget but I imagine with just pots you could afford ADA aquasoil. I haven't used it (too expensive) but it sounds like great stuff.

[Joker]

@ peleg38 - Advice from people in the community is worth alot so thank you for your time to help me.

Substrate - I have googled those products here in Australia and it seems we can obtain the majority of them but they are expensive. Is there a calculator that I could use to work out how much I would need? The Amazonia ADA Aquasoil appears to be black in colour but labourelc (above) has advised I stay away from a dark substrate for the Discus colourings. Is there a white (ish) colour substrate that I could go for that would be better for plants?

Plants - Yes I was aiming for more of a substantial list but I couldn't think of crypts and swords when I wrote it but they will definitely be there. I would like to have a fairly heavily planted tank (to cover the black backing I am thinking of having) but you say my lighting (2 x T5 x 5ft) lights is low. What is high? 4 x T5? MH ? LED ? Can any of it fit in my hood I suppose is more the question. I have never had any experience with LEDs or MH but if they are a better option I would like to know. I suppose I like the look of an elaborate plant setup but as I am time poor I guess a lower maintenance system is better. I have used a very basic CO2 system before and it is just as you describe. Quandaries...

Fish - I think most of the fish I had listed would be ok with Discus as I have seen them in many tanks before (especially cardinals and rummynose tetras). I was more worried about the numbers so I will reduce them in line with your thoughts. Bushy nose plecos (same as bristle nose? ie about the most common pleco out there?) are a good choice but I thought they might get aggressive when they get fully grown. Perhaps if there is a dwarf version it might be ideal. Wow that is an amazing story with the Rams v Corrys and Discus...I have kept Blue Rams, Bolivian Butterflys and Sterbai together without issue....well the Dwarf Chiclids stand off every now and again but none of them even take a look at the Corys.

Rocks - I was thinking of adding some lava rock that I was given with the tank (well 2 boxes of it) and growing plants (anubius nana and java moss) on them. I know people say you need to check if it is the real lava rock or pre fabricated stuff so I will drop some vinegar on a small piece and see if it bubbles. Also I have read that others were concerned it was sharp and that it could slice a skittish Discus so I thought if it was covered in plants I could get around that and it would also provide a good place for bacteria to grow. Thoughts please....

I am pretty tired now as it has been a long day. Time for some shuteye so I can dream about my aquascape ;) Oh and I don't know if any of you are football fans here but what a win by the Texans today to clinch the AFC South...my wife is from Houston and she was rather excited about it to the point of wanting to fly home for the playoffs !

[peleg38]

@ peleg38 - Advice from people in the community is worth alot so thank you for your time to help me.

Happy to hopefully help.

Substrate - I have googled those products here in Australia and it seems we can obtain the majority of them but they are expensive. Is there a calculator that I could use to work out how much I would need? The Amazonia ADA Aquasoil appears to be black in colour but labourelc (above) has advised I stay away from a dark substrate for the Discus colourings. Is there a white (ish) colour substrate that I could go for that would be better for plants?


I can't think of any light substrates for plants off the top of my head. I have never used it but the Aqua Soil- Malaya looks lighter in color. I think the ADA website may have a calculator on it. I think the coloring issues will only be present for certain kinds of discus. Pigeon blood strains are prone to peppering. I have a white diamond, blue diamond, penang eruption, and turquoise that have no peppering issues. My checkerboard pigeon however, has some. I used a product called Turface in mine. It was $17 for a 50 lbs. bag and I'm sure two bags would be plenty for you. It's kind of a light brown reddish color. I wanted my tank to be low tech and low maintenance so my only requirement was a baked clay substrate with a high CEC.

Plants - Yes I was aiming for more of a substantial list but I couldn't think of crypts and swords when I wrote it but they will definitely be there. I would like to have a fairly heavily planted tank (to cover the black backing I am thinking of having) but you say my lighting (2 x T5 x 5ft) lights is low. What is high? 4 x T5? MH ? LED ? Can any of it fit in my hood I suppose is more the question. I have never had any experience with LEDs or MH but if they are a better option I would like to know. I suppose I like the look of an elaborate plant setup but as I am time poor I guess a lower maintenance system is better. I have used a very basic CO2 system before and it is just as you describe. Quandaries...


My reading has led me to believe that T5s are the most practical and popular option, though light technology is definatley a matter of preference and budget. I have two 96w pc over my 125g tank which is on the lower end of medium light. The chart in the thread below is one of the best light calculators I have found. The watts per gallon "rule" is much like the inches per gallon "rule." I firmly believe that high light and CO2 are not a prerequisite for a lush planted tank (and I'm not alone. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/101085-light-calculation-chart.html

Fish - I think most of the fish I had listed would be ok with Discus as I have seen them in many tanks before (especially cardinals and rummynose tetras). I was more worried about the numbers so I will reduce them in line with your thoughts. Bushy nose plecos (same as bristle nose? ie about the most common pleco out there?) are a good choice but I thought they might get aggressive when they get fully grown. Perhaps if there is a dwarf version it might be ideal. Wow that is an amazing story with the Rams v Corrys and Discus...I have kept Blue Rams, Bolivian Butterflys and Sterbai together without issue....well the Dwarf Chiclids stand off every now and again but none of them even take a look at the Corys.


I think bushy and bristle might be interchangeable. They only get to be 6" and I have seen four different varieties (common, albino, longfin albino, and yellow spot). They are champs for algae but do create a lot of waste.

Rocks - I was thinking of adding some lava rock that I was given with the tank (well 2 boxes of it) and growing plants (anubius nana and java moss) on them. I know people say you need to check if it is the real lava rock or pre fabricated stuff so I will drop some vinegar on a small piece and see if it bubbles. Also I have read that others were concerned it was sharp and that it could slice a skittish Discus so I thought if it was covered in plants I could get around that and it would also provide a good place for bacteria to grow. Thoughts please....


I think the idea with rocks is to make sure they are not reactive and will not affect water chemistry (i.e. if acidic vinegar fizzles the rock may lower your pH). I personally like to look of rock and wood together. Most lava rock looks unnatural in an aquarium to me. I saw one really cool tank that used manzanita burls to create a rock like affect. I don't have a ton of experience with my fish running into things but I feel like they reasonably coordinated and can avoid harmful objects (pretty sure they do this in the wild). I would recommend using lots of thread when fastening your plants. My only problem right now is plants detaching (or more probably being detached) from my wood pieces.

I am pretty tired now as it has been a long day. Time for some shuteye so I can dream about my aquascape ;) Oh and I don't know if any of you are football fans here but what a win by the Texans today to clinch the AFC South...my wife is from Houston and she was rather excited about it to the point of wanting to fly home for the playoffs !

I'm a huge football fan. 49ers fan actually. It's pretty cool Houston finally made the playoffs but I don't see them doing well with all of their injuries.

[Joker]

@ peleg 38 - I think I will stay away from the Discus that "pepper" as I have my heart set on a black background as I think it visually highlights the plants. The planted tank that Jay created (well done by the way) is similar to what I would like it to look like although his light requirements are probably far greater than mine.

Plants - I actaully looked under the hood again and realised that there are 4 x T5 lights so I am going to go for a low light tank as I don't want the expense of a new light setup. The link you sent me was handy and I have also found this list of low light plants on the same site which should be useful (can't post it till I have 10 posts).

Fish - I was trying to keep away from fish that create a lot of waste so perhaps I will go for a solitary pleco (yellow spot sounds cool) in the community.

Rocks - noted - I had only used lava rock in an african tank before. I was really trying to grow plants all over the rock so you would eventually not even know they were rocks. Perhaps I will stick to driftwood...will wait and see.

The 49ers are looking solid and I agree that the Texans will be fluking it to do well in the playoffs with so many key players out. That said anything can on "any given Sunday"..right.

Got to run...

[jay973]

I actaully looked under the hood again and realised that there are 4 x T5 lights so I am going to go for a low light tank as I don't want the expense of a new light setup.

FYI I had a 120g aquarium which was only recently replace by 180g. It was L60inxW18inxH28in with 4 x T5HO and pressurized CO2 dosing dry ferts. I'm not sure what the intensity output difference is from HO and NO depending on what you have but it doesn't sound like lighting will be a limiting factor for you. If you intend to do low light 2 bulbs should be fine. I don't know if any of the hybrid reds will work in low light but it wouldn't hurt to try you likely add vals and ludwiga species to your plant list as well.

My 120g was not a Discus tank it had Angels. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh251/jay973_photos/120%20gallon/PictureT1i_2897_2.jpg

[Joker]

@ jay973 - thank you so much for the heads up...that was exactly what I wanted to know and the pic (very nice tank btw) to back it up was perfect. I will leave my 4 x T5 lights in place and find some new tubes to put in them. Can I ask is that ADA Amazonia substrate ?

I am only about 2.5 weeks out from the move now and I am getting close to organising my thoughts which are similar to my original idea with the help of some forum members to guide me along the way (thanks to all those that posted). In the next few weeks I am going to order my substrate, perhaps a few new T5 tubes (might try out the old ones first as I believe they are only 6 months old), paint my background black and start ordering some plants.

I am going to see if I can edit my original post to reflect some of the changes made to my setup.

If I don't post any more before Xmas....have a merry one my fellow discus lovers :antlers:

[Mxx]

Crystal Red Shrimp unfortunately don't like high discus temperatures, but Cherry Shrimp do.

If you're going with plants try to figure out in advance what if any nutrient dosing methodology you're using, such as EI dosing, etc. If a daily dosing approach is not what you wish to pursue, then another alternative would be to use a 1" mineralized topsoil, and then cap that with 1" of sand, such as a pool filter sand. It would also help to put in a layer of rigid plastic mesh/screen to keep the two layers separate. ADA Aquasoil works as well, but I'm not sure it's worth the price, and I'm not keen on the look of it.

Nothing wrong with using CO2, you just have to use some caution that you don't overdo it obviously, and it can help prevent algae and therefore reduce maintenance. It will also help your plants to absorb more nitrates and other dissolved organic compounds to increase your water quality.

Going low light will help with keeping your maintenance levels down as it will help prevent explosive plant growth, (and helps prevent algae too).

If you're buying replacement bulbs you might look into LED replacement tubes which would fit directly into your fixture. They're supposed to last much longer, and be at least 46% more efficient than florescent even, so they pay for themselves in time. http://www.earthled.com/flseries.html I haven't used them before but have looked into it and I hope to eventually.

Good luck!

[jay973]

@ jay973 - thank you so much for the heads up...that was exactly what I wanted to know and the pic (very nice tank btw) to back it up was perfect. I will leave my 4 x T5 lights in place and find some new tubes to put in them. Can I ask is that ADA Amazonia substrate ?

Thanks. The substrate was SMS - Soil Master Select (charcoal color) used for turf in the states it's sold in 50lb bags for like $15 it's inert so it doesn't provide any minerals of any type. It has it draw backs but it wasn't enough to keep me from using it in my 180g. I used dry ferts to mix my own solutions but you have to make sure your formulas/math are spot on.

I did experiment with ADA the type 1 not the type 2 if I remember correctly members from my local plant club discouraged me from using it. In their experience the product breaks down from pellets to a muddy mess typically in less than 2 yrs if I remember correctly the general feeling being it wasn't worth the expense.

[Joker]

Well I am sorry I haven't been around for a while but the new house move was exhausting (had to do it in 35c heat) and then we were off to a wedding in Thailand for 3 weeks...and I have only just got back and got my mountain of work back in check. Anyway back to the project. It has been raining solidly the past 3 weeks so it has been very difficult to paint the back of the tank but I finally have applied 3 coats and got it back on the stand (pics will follow). I think it looks ok but I am sure others will disagree.

I decided that I am going to do a substrate mix - pool filter sand for the majority....and then I have gone to a local tank builder and have him make me 2 glass plant boxes (that is what I am going to call them anyway). They are 30cm (l) x 20cm (b) x 10cm (h). In these I will fill with some plant friendly substrate - ADA or SMS ...whatever I can get my hands on. I am not sure if these plant boxes are going to be a good idea or not but I will find out in time. I figure worst case scenario...I can easily pull them out. I am trying to work out the positioning at the moment...in the back corners, or joined in the middle...or in the middle with a slight spacing that I could turn into a cave. I think I like the last option.

I have fired up the lights and noticed that there are 2 x white lights, 1 blue light and 1 red light. This seems to be more like a coral reef lighting arrangement so I am not sure if these bulbs will suit my tank...I guess I will need to inspect the tubes closer to find a brand/model etc. Thoughts ?

Hope everyone is doing well...pics will come tomorrow...after I have had some zzzzzzz's

p.s - how good was the superbowl ?

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Joker,

I LOVE the idea of plant boxes! For a long time I had what I call "squishy" plant pots. I cut the feet off of pantyhose, stuffed them with soil/gravel mix, planted them with one plant each and then used a rubberband to lightly close the top (so the soil wouldn't spill out when I moved them). They worked perfectly and I could easily move them around for vacuuming, pull them out for a gentle wash now and then, etc.

Lately I've had my few remaining plants in standard flower pots, but they are looking tired and worn out (the plants, not the pots) so I'm thinking of retiring them and maybe starting fresh in the spring. They really took a beating while I was growing out my discus...poor things.

As far as the rest of your setup goes, it sounds good! Since you didn't list any pigeon blood strains in your wish list the black background shouldn't cause you much trouble.

The list of other fish you'll be adding sounds good too, except that I'd be concerned with the choice of pleco. The bushy-nose pleco's are usually good tankmates with discus and don't tend to attach themselves to the discus, but other types can and will attach and suck on the sides of the fish. Discus slime is tasty!

I don't actually have any pleco's in my tank since I have to scrub the slime off the sides of it weekly anyways. I haven't had any problems with algae so far, but will add a pleco in the future if it does start being a problem.

Cory's are AWESOME! My little guys do a fantastic job of cleaning up any food that lays around on the bottom. They don't do as well in planted areas though, especially if the planted areas have gravel in them. They seem to much prefer the soft sandy bottom.

Can't wait to see pics as you start putting the tank together. =)

[Joker]

Thanks Strawbs...I am starting to get excited about it as my thoughts are coming along. I went out and purchased the substrate for the plant boxes. I went with black caribsea eco complete....I think it will work nicely. I had to import ADA from Sydney and I am too impatient to wait for that so this will do the job.

When I get around to adding the inhabitants, I will add the RCS first and let them settle in...and populate a bit. Then I will add the clean up crew - ottos, corys and maybe a pleco (still not sure on this as I don't want it to grow huge and I don't want it to be a pain to the other fish or plants). After this I will add the schooling fish (tetras etc)....and lastly the highlight of the show - Discus !

Are there any plants that will grow in pool filter sand (I hate asking this when I haven't been bothered to research it myself but I am pressed for time as I have people coming around for dinner) ? I probably won't grow anything there as I am looking for simplicity with cleaning....but I have been known to change my mind (as I am sure many of you have from time to time) :p

[Joker]

Ok the pics of the plant boxes empty in the tank with all 4 lights turned on...

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I have decided that the config with the plant boxes in the corner was not the best idea...and the lights don't extend right to the edges of the tank so it isn't as bright right on the corners.

[Joker]

I also purchased a piece of driftwood today to use as the centre piece for the tank. I am still not sure on the configuration as if I stand it up (as you will see in one of the photos) I was planning to lodge some potted plants in the open holes...that way they will be close to the light. With the driftwood on top of the plant boxes I could pull it back a bit and then grow some for ground plants in the front of it and some back ground plants behind it. I do like the look of the last photo though....decisions, decisions. :confused:


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[tonytheboss1]

:bandana: my vote is pic # 5. Very striking config.!! "T"

[shoveltrash]

love the plant boxes!

my vote is pic # 5. Very striking config.!! +1


and hey really really like this idea:
I cut the feet off of pantyhose, stuffed them with soil/gravel mix, planted them with one plant each and then used a rubberband to lightly close the top (so the soil wouldn't spill out when I moved them). They worked perfectly and I could easily move them around for vacuuming, pull them out for a gentle wash now and then, etcI'm all for no-mess, easy cleaning - luv it! :D

[Joker]

Thanks for the input...really appreciate it. I think I will go for the #5 config.

I am getting close to washing the PFS and starting the fill up and I am going to use the Rain Water I have stored underneath the house. I will test the parameters when I get to that point but has anyone used rain water and is there anything you need to look out for add (I have heard salt) ? I am assuming the PH should be considerably lower than what comes out of the tap here but I will keep an eye on that. Thanks to anyone that provides me with any advice.

[MightyEvil]

That is a sexy setup!

[Joker]

I got the PFS washed and added to the tank first.

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After that I added the eco complete to the plant boxes.

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Then I started the filling process. I have used rain water as I have 2 large tanks underneath the deck on my house and a tap installed (which is effectively just on the opposite side of the wall to the tank. I have done some reading on rain water and many people in the States say to stay clear of it because of the pollutants around the cities sucked up and dumped down in the falls. I then referred to some Australian sites which say they use it with no problem whatsoever. I live on top of a mountain range so I believe the air and rain should be relatively clean of toxins (but I would be a fool to think completely). My gutters are also capped so no debris should make its way down the drains. I really should have tested it before adding it but I will do that today. I have my fingers and toes crossed on this one as I don't really want to have to drain it. That said I would rather know now than later down the track.

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I have got my driftwood soaking to help release the tannin and it is time to go and change the water...very brown ! I am guessing this might take me a month to 6 weeks (maybe more) to get rid of the majority of the tannin.

[Joker]

So i tested the water parameters and I am slightly confused with the PH. Results are:

Aquarium water after running for 24hrs:

PH - 6.8
Amonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0

I then tested the rainwater PH from the tap - 8.2 (alot higher than I thought it would be and given the tank is full ot is..very confusing) There is also nothing in the tank that would decrease the PH...if anything the eco complete would raise it slightly before it levels out.

I then tested regular tap water PH and it came in at 6.4. I washed the PFS with the regular tap water but hardly any of that water got in so I can't seeing it making any difference.

Chemists can you offer some advice as I am very perplexed?

[parrottbay]

I have never thought of the box idea for the substrate for the plants... very unique and I like it thanks for sharing!!! :)

[Joker]

I have never thought of the box idea for the substrate for the plants... very unique and I like it thanks for sharing!!! :)

Thanks. It was all I could think of to get the 2 substrates split effectively. I just went to my local tank builder with the sketches and he charged me $20 for the two. I think it should work well...time will tell I guess.

[Joker]

Today a good friend came to stay the weekend and he gave me an old piece of driftwood (which I soaked in boiling water for good measure) that he used to have in his 10ft tank for years and also a red lotus plant which I have decided to put into one of my plant boxes. Along with the red lotus I have put 2 x Amazon Swords in the other plant box. A few pieces of Anubius have been attached to the driftwood. I think I will purchase 2 more Amazon Swords to put behind the Red Lotus so the red leaves aren't so lost in the black background. I have another bag of black eco complete coming this week (I hope) so I can fill the plant boxes to the brim (only about half full each atm).

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I threw in about 5 RCS from my work tank to see how it was coming along and they instantly coloured up a dark red (females) and began to munch on the driftwood in between some solo flights around the tank. I would say they are content with their new surroundings ;-)

The tank is finally starting to take shape. It is a long way off Discus but every step is a day closer.

[parrottbay]

Looks GREAT! cant wait to see how it looks with the discus! :D

[Joker]

Updated shots...

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[Joker]

Ok so all was going along nicely until yesterday when I found a single RCS had keeled over (still red). I thought it was odd as I had never lost a RCS in my tank at work where they all came from which has been running for several years. Today another single RCS was keeled over. I tested the parameters I could and all looked normal...same as a week ago.

PH - 6.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0

All the water has come from my rain water tanks and I have added nothing to the water at all. The rocks I collected from a local creek and I washed them all in boiling water first and then gave them a good scrub to remove any moss/algae. I also did this to my driftwood as well.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what is happening as I am very concerned as to what is going on? Should I be adding Prime to the rain water ? Someone told me to add salt but I didn't as I read that plants hate it and it should really only be used in a Quarantine tank.

I will visit the LFS tomorrow if I can and see if they can run other tests to see what is out of order.

[Demosthenes]

I wouldn't worry too much about two dead shrimp. In my experience they tend to just do that sometimes. You say you've never lost one in your tank at work over several years, but I'd say it's definitely happened and the others have just swallowed the evidence before you saw it.

Now if they all go belly up at once, that's something to be concerned about.

I hope this helps relieve your stress a bit.

[tonytheboss1]

:bandana: Beautiful tank shots. A bit curios about -0- nitrates. Functioning system should have some register of nitrates. As for the shrimp, I've lost a few & gained a few. More than likely they will end up expensive discus snacks eventually. Prime / Safe can't hurt so if you got it use it. "T"

[Joker]

@ Demosthenes - I suppose there are expressions like "acceptable losses" but I just don't like any loss. My thoughts on the subject are now...a change in PH...I haven't tested my work tank as it was stable many years ago and it uses town water which is meant to have a PH of 7.4-7.8 and my tank with rainwater is 6.8...so I think the variance was too much for the weaker shrimp to handle. Also I am waiting for my 300w Jager heater to arrive (should be here tomorrow) so there is also a variance in the temp each day...tank at work is a stable 26.5. It has RCS, cardinals and a few Ottos. All are doing well.

@ tonytheboss1 - Got me confused also. I have tested it a number of times so either the test is not working right or I am missing something obvious. Haven't had a chance to get to the LFS today to do the other test. I got my RCS from a friend several years ago and I have put them in tanks and given them away because they breed so prolifically at work...so I don't consider them expensive....I am slowly gaining more spots for them to hide in the new tank. Haven't added any Java moss anywhere yet...but I think I will as they love it so much.

Anyway the shrimp that are left, seem to be happy. Some new plants (final order) have arrived today and I didn't realise how much I ordered. I still have to work out what I am going to do with the crypts that are currently in pots. Will they grow in Pool Filter Sand as I don't think I will have room in my plant boxes when I get the next bag of Eco Complete (should be here Tuesday)? I have the crypts still in pots sitting in the plant boxes for the meantime. Some poeple on other forums say they will grow in Pool Filter Sand with root tabs but then people say that they will kill shrimp...so I am doing nothing until I hear/read otherwise.

Here are the latest pics...had to do some re arranging to make this massive anubias fit somewhere.... sorry about the quality but my son managed to snap himself a few times while he stuck his sticky fingers over the lens ;-)


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Any thoughts are always welcome.

[joanstone]

I think it looks great, I'm enjoying your updates.

[Joker]

@ joanstone - thank you kindly, I will try to keep them coming as much as I can.

Ok so the parameters can't be all that bad as today I found a berried female shrimp !!

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I tested the temp in my tank today and was surprised that it is sitting at 24.8c @ 9pm with no heater so I guess the 4 x T5 lights are providing a bit of warmth. The heater didn't arrive today so I will have to wait till after Easter for it to turn up, which is no drama as I am in no rush.

I have done some more rearranging and decided to move the crypts into the PFS and see how they go (no root tabs yet but it seems they should be ok with the shrimp the more I read today). Here are some updated pics.

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I hope you all enjoy your Easter holiday. It was a year ago tomorrow I nearly lost my wife to a rare blood disorder so for me it is a time of reflection and a time to be grateful that I have my family in one piece. Every day is a blessing.

[parrottbay]

Looking awesome! Simplicity!!

[Joker]

I have finally added some of the cleanup crew members (well all of them except the ottos). I have 5 x sterbias, 1 x Long Nose Whiptail, and 2 x Mystery Snails (which have kind of being annoying me as they keep dislodging my anubius on the logs so I will have to tie down with some cotton string). I am thinking about adding another whiptail so he has a buddy. Here are some pics of the newbies.

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I have some fine black dust (?) on some of the anubius leaves (which you can see in the last picture) so I think it is the from the top layer of eco complete that is being disturbed and then cycled around with the filter flow.

The last bag of eco complete + my Jager 300w heater came today so I have filled up the plant boxes (were half full previously) and installed the heater. The temp before would peak at 25c and go down to 22c at night so I waited till it got to 25c and set the Jager to 25c. I plan to increase it gradually over this week until I get to 28c. Then I will add the cardinals and rummy nose which I have in other tanks.

I have also had a thought that I will install my Eheim 2227 (wet dry) filter that I have on another tank as I can lift it up 10cm (with a brick or something) in the cabinet and still be within the limits for the rhythmic function. This will hopefully add some more oxygen to the water which I think the fish will appreciate at night when the lights are off. The only down side is that it has a wave like flow (slow then fast)....so I think I might need to increase the size of the holes on the spray bar so it doesn't create a rip in my tank ;-) Will have to think some more about this before I install.

Lastly I have found some root tab like product that a friend reffered me too called dinosaur dung which is essentially blood and bone wrapped up in clay and made into pellets. He says it works wonders and doesn't have any negative effects on shrimp. It is sourced locally in Australia so I don't know if you can by it outside the country but seeing as they are all common products no doubt others are making a similar product. They should be here tomorrow. Here is the website....

http://http://www.aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Dinosaur_Dung.html

Hope everyone is doing well.

[BowRiver]

It's really nice set up ,I like the big plant you got there

[CrazyAngels]

Joker, congrats on a great setup. I am very particular to Anubias and that broadleaf mother plant you have is just a killer...:D

[Joker]

@ BowRiver - Yes I too am very fond of it. I didin't realise that there were strain of Anubias that could grow that large (it was most unexpected when I removed it from the bag it arrived in). I have just added 15 x Cardinals and 10 x Rummy Nose and they seem to love swimming around and underneath the leaves.

@ CrazyAngels - I believe it is an Anubius Barteri on my order form but I have never seen them with leaves this big before. It certainly fills the tank space nicely and all the inhabitants seem to approve.

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So I am going to add the ottos and marble hatchets (when they come in stock) next but I think I will leave it for a few weeks and let the new comers settle in before I proceed.

I notice that one of my Amazon Swords has some yellow on the leaves (you can see it on some of the pictures) which is obviously a lack of something ? Does someone care to throw there 2c in and tell me what may be the problem here. On the upside my Red Lotus has grown some new leaves so I think the Dino Dung may have had an impact as they seem to pop out almost straight after I added he pellets to the roots.

I have some new T5 lights ordered (should be here tomorrow) as I wasn't sure of the quality of the current ones (think they are Cleair - same as tank which makes them Chinese so I think they are probably rubbish) and how long they had been used for. So i got 2 x Giesemann Midday T5 54w and 2x Giesemann Aquaflora T5 54w. From what I have read on various forums these appear to be a quality German tubes so hopefully it has a positive impact.

[discusmatt20]

Looks good :)

[bermyguy]

I am late, but I love the concept. Thanks for sharing!

[tshears]

Awesome tank... I'm working on setting up a planted one myself and will likely refer to this more than once :)

[santeclaws]

Nice! Will take into account for mine!