OMG you guys are freaking me out!!!

[Danno]

We just decided to put Discus in our 100 gallon planted tank, I thought I had everything covered with the expert from Aquriums West, (getting tank ready etc..) but after reading some of the forums here it has made me nervious ;) My wife and I bought six Discus ($450 later) and they appear to be doing fine, (second day) they are eating and are very courios.

The frist day they coward in the corner, the next day they were swimming to me knowing that I was the blood worm food god ;)

We love our plants, we have three fertizers trays barried under the gravel, we are also running co2, the tempeture of the tank 82 when running the dual t5 lighting then drops down to 80 when I turn off the lights at night.

We also seem to have a pair that have distance them selfs from the group.

So much more to read, but I am tired now and heading off to bed.

Nite!

[LizStreithorst]

80 is too low. For the Discus it shouldn't drop below 82. Setting the heater so that the temp only drops to 82 overnight would be better for the Discus, but likely not so good for the plants.

How big are your Discus? Grow out in planted isn't that great an idea. Adults in planted can work. They do it all the time in Europe, but you have to know whhat you are doing. Here's an example from BIDKA of a problem someone is dealing with in the UK. It's all so over my head that I wouldn't even try planted, but it can be done sucessfully if you know what you're doing.

http://forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=20149

[Wes]

:fish:Welcome to SD.:fish:

[YSS]

Keep your eyes on water quality and you will be fine.

[brewmaster15]

Danno,
You've come to the right place to learn about Discus!:) Welcome to the forum! I would suggest that you keep reading here in the Beginners board and since you have a planted tank as well, read up in the planted tank section here ... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?37-Planted-Show-Tanks-and-Biotopes

Theres many members here that keep discus successfully in planted tanks..takes some extra work but it can be done if thats your goal...

Read up and ask many questions....and most of all...Don't worry...Discus are not as hard to keep as many would say...it all comes down to healthy stock, good food , correct water parameters and clean water..... Mother nature takes care of the rest. You'll do fine if you take the time to learn what these fish really need.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.
-al

[chiligum]

Hello, jumped in at the deep end eh?...You'll be fine mate!

[wendy9722]

Welcome to SD!!!! Keep reading

[Bill63SG]

Wait to you spend your free time just looking at discus poop.

[Second Hand Pat]

Wait to you spend your free time just looking at discus poop.

Oh so true Bill...lol

..and Danno, welcome to SD

[Unitus]

Keep your eyes on water quality and you will be fine.

FINALLY!!! Someone on this forum that agrees that discus are just fish!!! I mean, They grow up in the wild with stress, PLANTS, and other things... why can't they do it in captivity? I think they can. I think people are deitizing them. THEY'RE FISH!!! Not gods. Lets get the differences down. True, they may be sensitive fish, but I've heard quite a few reports that the only things with discus are a varied diet, good water quality, and warm temp. Not like the world's most delicate beings that need royal treatment to keep from dying like they are sometimes made out to be.

[shoveltrash]

they may be sensitive fish, but I've heard quite a few reports that the only things with discus are a varied diet, good water quality, and warm temp. Not like the world's most delicate beings that need royal treatment to keep from dying like they are sometimes made out to be.and it's a good thing too...........my Discus would not have survived ME otherwise LOLOL.

welcome to the forum!
I love your title btw.....that's how I felt, 'freaked out' :). I found the forum and after spending countless hours reading, realized I was doing just about everything wrong with my Discus! (altho water quality has remained good, except for my salt-softened water.....a whole 'nother subject)

please take photos - I love *seeing* members fish :D, and updates too!

[Skip]

FINALLY!!! Someone on this forum that agrees that discus are just fish!!! I mean, They grow up in the wild with stress, PLANTS, and other things... why can't they do it in captivity? I think they can. I think people are deitizing them. THEY'RE FISH!!! Not gods. Lets get the differences down. True, they may be sensitive fish, but I've heard quite a few reports that the only things with discus are a varied diet, good water quality, and warm temp. Not like the world's most delicate beings that need royal treatment to keep from dying like they are sometimes made out to be.

makes you wonder why people have so many problems with this...

[shoveltrash]

imho (very humble...), it's because "good water quality" is more challenging in a planted tank. warlock I followed your advice and went BB, and am SO THANKFUL that I did! substrate makes keeping things *clean* much more difficult!!! and clean=good water quality (from what I understand).

[Skip]

imho (very humble...), it's because "good water quality" is more challenging in a planted tank. warlock I followed your advice and went BB, and am SO THANKFUL that I did! substrate makes keeping things *clean* much more difficult!!! and clean=good water quality (from what I understand).

trish.. deepflyball was the one that convinced me to pull out my substrate.. it was the best thing ever :) so i was just passing it on :)

[vizkid2005]

FINALLY!!! Someone on this forum that agrees that discus are just fish!!! I mean, They grow up in the wild with stress, PLANTS, and other things... why can't they do it in captivity? I think they can. I think people are deitizing them. THEY'RE FISH!!! Not gods. Lets get the differences down. True, they may be sensitive fish, but I've heard quite a few reports that the only things with discus are a varied diet, good water quality, and warm temp. Not like the world's most delicate beings that need royal treatment to keep from dying like they are sometimes made out to be.

I totally Agree ... Thanks for bringing that point up ....

[TNT77]

I totally Agree ... Thanks for bringing that point up ....
I think you should read this post VERY well.

As we are talking about raising baby discus in a planted tank, lets just for the time being put to one side the chances or otherwise of growing these fish out to their potential as this is a whole topic in itself. And for the record I have raised baby discus in planted tanks and I have kept discus in planted tanks and when time permits I will do so again.

Lets deal with some terminology as it applies to discus. First, what is normal for a discus? Well for the vast majority of domestic discus, normal is a BB tank, based on my knowledge of discus breeders I would suggest that this number is in excess of 99%! For wild caught discus normal is a rather large expanse of water, with a sand bottom, some roots and during the rainy season submerged trees. To all intents and purposes there are no plants. So what about normal for other fish? Well there are many fish that normal is just a heap of rocks and a sand or gravel bottom e.g. many African cichlids (Malawis etc). Also what about Oscars, normal for these is a bare tank, maybe with a substrate.... I am not being difficult here, just pointing out that "normal" really doesn't exist or apply. I suspect that by using the term "normal" what is meant is normal to the fish keeper.

As for raising fish in less than ideal conditions to make them tougher, well that really doesn't hold up either. Firstly the fish will be stressed which will compromise it's ability to grow and develop, which in turn will compromise it's ability to reproduce. As we have already used animals as analogies, lets do so again. In the UK some years ago it was found that by raising pigs in conditions that were more suitable to them they grew faster, produced better meat, and also were more resistant to disease. This has also been shown to be true with other farm animals. The lesson if there is one we should take from this is to raise the animal in the conditions which are best for it to grow and develop in, not what we think would be best for it or us!

You only have to read through the disease board on here (and other forums) and read any of the authoritative books on the discus or fish health to see that stress is the number 1 reason why fish get sick, and the most common cause of stress is environmental, i.e their tank and associated living conditions (water quality, tankmates, water params, stocking densities etc, etc). For reference have a read of Untergasser's work or Noga's work, but there are plenty of others too. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that by raising fish in substandard conditions will by some miracle allow it's offspring to adapt and therefore be easier.

It seems that many people don't get that discus only need clean water, in the right temperature range, good food and as stress free an environment as we can provide. As it has been suggested that in the wild they do not get clean water and are exposed to more pathogens than domestic bred discus, lets try and put that one to bed. The Amazon discharges between 100,000 and 300,000 cubic metres of water every second into the Atlantic. The lowest amount is 100,000,000 litres every second or 26,000,000 US gallons a second or 22,000,000 imperial gallons a second. Whichever unit you use it is an awful lot of water!! Discus in the wild also have a lot lower stocking densities too than in our tanks. The downside is that they also have predators, but they also tend to live in very large groups too, I'm guessing safety in numbers. One thing for sure is that the water is usually quite pristine with extremely low bacterial and other pathogens count. They also get a continual refresh of clean water from the surrounding mountains. Discus have evolved over millions of years to live in these low mineral and generally low pH water conditions, and sometimes they are low in O2 too.

If you want to raise discus in conditions that suit them or are more suitable to them then you have to provide clean water as a starting point, anything else is folly. How you go about providing the clean water environment is your choice.

Also it is worth noting that clean water is not sterile water, nor is a clean tank a sterile tank. The best way I can describe clean water is water that is low in dissolved organics and other by products of biological breakdown as well as having a low latent pathogen load. It would be foolish, if not impossible, imo to try and have sterile water. Wild caught or domestic, this is the one area they have in common.

We spend an awful lot of money on our discus, so why even think about not providing a suitable environment? I'll bet that if the same people went out and bought some Malawis that in relative terms are cheap as chips, they would happily spend the extra money on the coral sands etc to make hard alkaline living conditions. Why is it so hard to accept that discus just need clean water?

Discus are incredibly adaptable fish in respect of water params, they can tolerate extremely hard water and do very well in moderate to soft water. I have truly lost count of the number of people that have told me that their discus are doing great in their tank and they rarely change water and they live with this that or another type of fish and at the wrong temps etc, etc. They then tell me how healthy their discus are and that they haven't lost one in several months. When you see pictures of them or see them in the flesh, they are dark with dull, large eyes and sunken appearance. But as everyone knows how hard they are to keep losing one every few months is to be expected, right? And if you can keep a discus alive for two years you have done well, right? WRONG!!! Most don't believe me when I tell them that once I have qt'd fish I haven't lost a discus to illness or disease in the more than five years and that I have had discus that are the best part of 10 years old. Lets be clear, discus are not difficult to keep or even raise, provided they are given what they need. Clean water, at the right temperature, with a proper diet and as stress free an environment as we can provide. The problem is that most people want to believe something different and that somehow they can prove all the so called discus experts wrong, despite them not having kept discus before and in some cases, though not Mxx's case, not even having kept planted tanks before! After all what the hell does 46 years of fish keeping experience mean? Most of that with planted tanks and 15 or 20 or more years with discus? Not much I guess.

I can promise you I have tried many different ways to kill discus and have succeeded on many occasions, but if I have learned one thing about discus, it is this. Give them clean water, at the right temperature, feed them a proper diet and keep their environment as stress free as possible. Stuck record? maybe :) But do this, and do it properly and the discus will reward you massively.

Sorry for the novel and the rant.
Very good point on water quality in an enclosed environment.

[chiligum]

You should just post this on the main home page for everyone to read and it will stop people having to repeat advice like this in countless threads!

[Skip]

You should just post this on the main home page for everyone to read and it will stop people having to repeat advice like this in countless threads!

NOW you understand young padawan..

[troweler]

FINALLY!!! Someone on this forum that agrees that discus are just fish!!! I mean, They grow up in the wild with stress, PLANTS, and other things... why can't they do it in captivity? I think they can. I think people are deitizing them. THEY'RE FISH!!! Not gods. Lets get the differences down. True, they may be sensitive fish, but I've heard quite a few reports that the only things with discus are a varied diet, good water quality, and warm temp. Not like the world's most delicate beings that need royal treatment to keep from dying like they are sometimes made out to be.Yes but in the wild they live in 1000s of gallons of water in a natural enviroment not in a 100 gal tank :D

[bermyguy]

That was a good read. Thanks for posting.

[Orange Crush]

Here is a thread I started about putting discus in a planted tank. Needless to say people have differing opinions on the matter but it is informative and helped me decide what was best in my situation. Hopefully it will help you too!
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?92705-discus-quality-of-life

[shoveltrash]

very good reading - thanks for posting this!

Originally Posted by pcsb23
As we are talking about raising baby discus in a planted tank, lets just for the time being put to one side the chances or otherwise of growing these fish out to their potential as this is a whole topic in itself. And for the record I have raised baby discus in planted tanks and I have kept discus in planted tanks and when time permits I will do so again.

Lets deal with some terminology as it applies to discus. First, what is normal for a discus? Well for the vast majority of domestic discus, normal is a BB tank, based on my knowledge of discus breeders I would suggest that this number is in excess of 99%! For wild caught discus normal is a rather large expanse of water, with a sand bottom, some roots and during the rainy season submerged trees. To all intents and purposes there are no plants. So what about normal for other fish? Well there are many fish that normal is just a heap of rocks and a sand or gravel bottom e.g. many African cichlids (Malawis etc). Also what about Oscars, normal for these is a bare tank, maybe with a substrate.... I am not being difficult here, just pointing out that "normal" really doesn't exist or apply. I suspect that by using the term "normal" what is meant is normal to the fish keeper.

As for raising fish in less than ideal conditions to make them tougher, well that really doesn't hold up either. Firstly the fish will be stressed which will compromise it's ability to grow and develop, which in turn will compromise it's ability to reproduce. As we have already used animals as analogies, lets do so again. In the UK some years ago it was found that by raising pigs in conditions that were more suitable to them they grew faster, produced better meat, and also were more resistant to disease. This has also been shown to be true with other farm animals. The lesson if there is one we should take from this is to raise the animal in the conditions which are best for it to grow and develop in, not what we think would be best for it or us!

You only have to read through the disease board on here (and other forums) and read any of the authoritative books on the discus or fish health to see that stress is the number 1 reason why fish get sick, and the most common cause of stress is environmental, i.e their tank and associated living conditions (water quality, tankmates, water params, stocking densities etc, etc). For reference have a read of Untergasser's work or Noga's work, but there are plenty of others too. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that by raising fish in substandard conditions will by some miracle allow it's offspring to adapt and therefore be easier.

It seems that many people don't get that discus only need clean water, in the right temperature range, good food and as stress free an environment as we can provide. As it has been suggested that in the wild they do not get clean water and are exposed to more pathogens than domestic bred discus, lets try and put that one to bed. The Amazon discharges between 100,000 and 300,000 cubic metres of water every second into the Atlantic. The lowest amount is 100,000,000 litres every second or 26,000,000 US gallons a second or 22,000,000 imperial gallons a second. Whichever unit you use it is an awful lot of water!! Discus in the wild also have a lot lower stocking densities too than in our tanks. The downside is that they also have predators, but they also tend to live in very large groups too, I'm guessing safety in numbers. One thing for sure is that the water is usually quite pristine with extremely low bacterial and other pathogens count. They also get a continual refresh of clean water from the surrounding mountains. Discus have evolved over millions of years to live in these low mineral and generally low pH water conditions, and sometimes they are low in O2 too.

If you want to raise discus in conditions that suit them or are more suitable to them then you have to provide clean water as a starting point, anything else is folly. How you go about providing the clean water environment is your choice.

Also it is worth noting that clean water is not sterile water, nor is a clean tank a sterile tank. The best way I can describe clean water is water that is low in dissolved organics and other by products of biological breakdown as well as having a low latent pathogen load. It would be foolish, if not impossible, imo to try and have sterile water. Wild caught or domestic, this is the one area they have in common.

We spend an awful lot of money on our discus, so why even think about not providing a suitable environment? I'll bet that if the same people went out and bought some Malawis that in relative terms are cheap as chips, they would happily spend the extra money on the coral sands etc to make hard alkaline living conditions. Why is it so hard to accept that discus just need clean water?

Discus are incredibly adaptable fish in respect of water params, they can tolerate extremely hard water and do very well in moderate to soft water. I have truly lost count of the number of people that have told me that their discus are doing great in their tank and they rarely change water and they live with this that or another type of fish and at the wrong temps etc, etc. They then tell me how healthy their discus are and that they haven't lost one in several months. When you see pictures of them or see them in the flesh, they are dark with dull, large eyes and sunken appearance. But as everyone knows how hard they are to keep losing one every few months is to be expected, right? And if you can keep a discus alive for two years you have done well, right? WRONG!!! Most don't believe me when I tell them that once I have qt'd fish I haven't lost a discus to illness or disease in the more than five years and that I have had discus that are the best part of 10 years old. Lets be clear, discus are not difficult to keep or even raise, provided they are given what they need. Clean water, at the right temperature, with a proper diet and as stress free an environment as we can provide. The problem is that most people want to believe something different and that somehow they can prove all the so called discus experts wrong, despite them not having kept discus before and in some cases, though not Mxx's case, not even having kept planted tanks before! After all what the hell does 46 years of fish keeping experience mean? Most of that with planted tanks and 15 or 20 or more years with discus? Not much I guess.

I can promise you I have tried many different ways to kill discus and have succeeded on many occasions, but if I have learned one thing about discus, it is this. Give them clean water, at the right temperature, feed them a proper diet and keep their environment as stress free as possible. Stuck record? maybe But do this, and do it properly and the discus will reward you massively.

Sorry for the novel and the rant.