Any harm in 2 weeks+ at 90 degrees?

[ekwok117]

I recently had a Ich outbreak in my 80 gallon that might have been caused by temperature fluctuation due to cold ambient temperatures. I went and put some insulation boards on the tank, raised the temperature to ~90 and added ~1tbsp rock salt/ 10 gallons, which seemed to clear everything. Since everything looked fine, I bought three new juvis to replace the ones that had died. For the first few days, they were shy and did not have much of an appetite, which I just attributed to them getting adjusted to the tank. However, they continued like this for the next few days. At this point, the tank had already been at 90 and with salt for a week and a half+, but one of the new juvis still proceeded to break out with Ich. I called the originally owner, and he said his tank is fine. Its been a week and a half now but they're still not eating. One has Ich and the other two are a bit dark but conversely, my original juvis are doing just fine and scarfing down everything. I would rather not treat with any chemicals. What should I try to do at this point? Is there harm in keeping it at 90 and salted until everything clears up? And is there anything to get them to eat?

[jimg]

I try to never go over 3 days with salt. at 90 your stressing them with heat and low 02. qc is what I would use.

[ekwok117]

Excuse my ignorance but what is qc? Something to do with quarantine?

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[Sean Buehrle]

You need to fill out the disease questionnaire in the top sticky part of this forum. Fill it out with as much info as you can give, not just for help curing your fish but to figure out the cause of the outbreak. That way it won't happen again.

I suggest you skip the alternate method of salt and heat and get to the business of killing the ick right away. Ick is easy to get rid of if you do it right.

Start off with a large water change of 75 % being careful to keep the temperature the same.

Buy some quick cure at Walmart or your local pet shop and use as directed unless you have tetras or scaleless fish in the tank. I suggest you get on this tonight, ick is deadly once the entire fish is infected.
Quick cure stomps ick.

Post pictures of the fish also, there are diseases or parasites that look similar to ick.

[Keith Perkins]

At a tank temp of 90 degrees, I'm wondering if what we're talking about is really ich. Some discus will develop white spots that look very similar to ich in poor water quality. The disease questionnaire would be a good idea, here's a link. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete If water change routine isn't one of the questions asked, that would be useful too.

[TURQ64]

If the temp has really been that high for that long, it pretty much ISN'T ich..the cycle is short; there wouldn't be any trophonts left to divide..more info please..

[ekwok117]

I'm currently out of test kit, so I'll get back to you guys wih that. The tank is 80 gallons and is half a year old. I have 6 Juvi 2.5 inch discus , 3 sterbai Cory, 3 siamese algae eaters, and 2 hi-fin swordtails. It is filter sand bottom. Water is a every other day about 10 percent and 25 on weekends.

The fish with 'ich' still looks around the same today and brushes against plants.

Here are some pictures :

How they looked at the original owners:
71113

Now:
71114
71115
71116
71117

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[ekwok117]

The previous owner just gave me some Coppersafe and Ridich+. Should I use either?


Update: still havn't used any meds yet, but lowered temp to 88. The diamond blue's ich seemed to have gotten a little better since the morning and ate a little that came its way. The two others are still looking dark though.

May I add they occasionally flicker their fins and rub against plants too even for the ones without the white speckles. Are those tell tale signs of external parasites?

[jimg]

could very well be parasites though I do not think it's ick. like i suggested earlier quick cure, lower temp to 84 check all water parameters.

[Altum Nut]

Excuse my ignorance but what is qc? Something to do with quarantine?

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Besides testing your water...the original step that should have been taken was to not dump the three new discus in with the others without QT - (Quarantine)
In addition, with temps that high you should allow for more O2 going via air-stone.

...Ralph

[judy]

Your water changes... not enough volume in them. Try doing a 75% water change every day for five days. And all your water changes should be at least 50%.

[ekwok117]

I still have not done anything drastic yet but the blue diamond is almost free of the white specks. I have just noticed one of them to be breathing very fast and occasionally closing one gill. I'm assuming that is gill flukes? Would you guys recommend doing salt dip for just those? or is it worth it to use ridich+ on the whole tank despite the rest of the fish doing fine to kill whatever parasites that reside?

Here's a video I just took:

http://youtu.be/2ejAt1Fl624

I fed them after this video and strangely, the blue diamond and one of the snakeskins actually regained its color. The blue diamond even ate a little and was more active. The last snakeskin is still dark, breathing hard and flashing though. I've turned temperature down from 90 to 87 yesterday. Could that have been a possible culprit? Anyhow, I'll continue to keep close observations.

[judy]

do a LARGE (75%) water change. and then another one tomorrow. and then another one the day after that! If you don't have test kits, you cannot possibly know whether your water is the problem, and with the small WCs you have been doing it could very likely be as simple as that. Don't just sit on your hands!!!

[ekwok117]

Just tested my water:

- temp 87

- ph 8.2

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 5.0

- municipal water ph 8.4

- 12 hour aged water ph 8.2

[jimg]

qc is quick cure or you could just use formalin

[ekwok117]

Here are some more videos:

The stunted one just recovered from being pitched black and death nearing ich. Since then, hes had a few days of good appetite and being really active but will occasionally get dark and clamp fins. Maybe hes catching whatever the others have? Anyhow, I'm close to pulling the trigger on meds. I just don't want to do it unless its my last resort.


http://youtu.be/1RQ9Foo9Na4


http://youtu.be/AtVmSMZWMgw

[judy]

Again... Have you done a series of large daily water changes????? !!!

[ekwok117]

Just my normal routine. I'm assuming the water change is not only to keep my nitrates down. I'll get to that now.

[judy]

Correct. Large WCs reduce nitrates, but also DOCs (dissolved organic carbons) and TDS (total dissolved solids). They will also help reduce any pathogenic bacteria populations that may be in the tank. And, finally, discus do much better all round in very clean water. Sometimes, a series of very large, frequent WCs is all the fish need to bounce back.

[ekwok117]

I will continue the big water changes. I woke up to this though:
71177
Sigh...what does that mean now? It's not necessarily stringy. Just looks like normal feces but white. And he's in hiding.

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[jimg]

you shouldn't feel as if meds are a disaster to use, many of them we use are very safe provided used as directed and not mixed with other meds until sure. the fish will die faster from parasites, disease and stress than the meds.
Your fish showing white feces could be from many things, it could have started with poor water conditions, parasites etc. when they weaken the bacteria, flagellates and many other pathogens take control.
I suggested qc 2x and you didn't respond now i will suggest it again while you wait for your metronidizole to come in.
My honest opinion is they won't last long. by the time you see the white feces it's too late, not always but many times.

[ekwok117]

Firstly, thanks for all the help everyone. I don't know what I would do without the help. Here's an update: The diamond blue sprung back and is now starting to eat. The blue turq stopped pooping white but is still dark and not eating. The two snakeskins are still not eating. And now, even the two healthy red turqs are showing some white specks and one is not eating. I just went ahead and did a 25% wc and added the RidIch+, which from what I've read is just a milder quick cure. I'll report back how it goes. Do you guys have any suggestions on the re-dosage? Or should I just follow the every 24 hour with a 25% wc until a few days after symptoms disappear?

[judy]

P,ease do larger water changes.

[ekwok117]

I am! And will! I did a 75% day before. But since I don't have the equipment to age that much water and tap is 0.3 or so off, I just went with a 25% before medication so they wouldn't be too stressed.

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[dbfzurowski]

You should pull everything out of that tank, disinfect it good and get new discus buddy.