Making trades, agreements, and follow-through... your perspective on 'contracts' ...

[ericatdallas]

This is one of a series of online trading/buying complaints I've made...

This was a deal on another forum... I'm not going to drag anyone's name through the mud, but I want an honest assessment of what you think of this ... it doesn't help to ask my friends b/c they don't understand fish and they want to side with me. I want an honest opinion so I know how to deal with this in the future. I don't know if the person is a member here or not.

I made a trade deal for a 75G tank for 9 "rare" shrimp. I agreed to drive an hour away to drop the tank off for the guy. When I was ten minutes away from our meeting place, he said, "I'll be there, btw, I am only giving out 8 shrimp, but I am including four additional 'other' shrimp." I asked, "Why?"

He said, "I didn't have as many of these 'rare' shrimp as I thought. So I am running low. I didn't realize until I bagged yours."

I said, "well, I'll go through with the deal, but next time, I would appreciate the heads up."

He said, "I just told you why... it's just one shrimp."

I said, "I'm not making a deal about the shrimp. I'm making an issue on principle. I drove all this way and you didn't bother to call me and ask me if it was okay for you to change our agreement. I accept your substitution, but it's not the way I choose to do business."

He then interrupted me several times to say, "Well, we don't have to deal. I don't care that much."

Finally, after repeating that I would continue with the deal three times, I sighed and said, "Okay, fine, nevermind on our trade then."

He then e-mailed me and said that I didn't respect him. He said things don't always go your way in life and that people who deal with live things know that nothing is guaranteed. After I responded and asked him, "Would you treat an eBay or an Aquabid customer this way?" and I also gave him the analogy of me bringing 8 ten gallon tanks instead of one 75G tank and explained my perspective he said, "Well, it seems all you care about is respect your way, not both ways. He also said the analogy isn't appropriate and that 99 out of 100 people wouldn't have made an issue of it."

So in summary:

1) I think he should have called before altering the terms of our deal.
2) It's not about one shrimp, it's about the courtesy of the call.
3) I said I would proceed with the deal, but I felt it was appropriate to call especially knowing that I was dragging a tank for a 1 hour drive.
4) I don't think I was disrespectful at all.

Just curious on your perspective. Want an honest opinion.

My wife was listening and she said, "What a douchebag." but he said the "cashier he was checking out with was listening and she didn't understand why I was worked up."

Thanks...

[Discus PB]

I would agree with you. How can you trade something if you don't know you even have it to trade. I double check everything before I trade to make sure I got everything in order on my side.
Plus call to switch up the deal and back out when you were almost there is just rude IMO. I bet if it happend to him he would of threw a chit fit.

[ericatdallas]

I would agree with you. How can you trade something if you don't know you even have it to trade. I double check everything before I trade to make sure I got everything in order on my side.
Plus call to switch up the deal and back out when you were almost there is just rude IMO. I bet if it happend to him he would of threw a chit fit.

Well, I tried to make another deal with him once before and he called me "ridiculous". I was extremely nice that time considering his insult. He offered to sell me some shrimp for $4 each in trade for my tank. I said, "Well, I can get it for $2 each from so and so, so I'll offer you in equivalent." He then proceeded with this long winded lecture about how ridiculous it was and how he sells them for $4-8 on eBay. he also said the other guy sold only "small shrimp" and he was selling big shrimp. The next day I found out he bought it from the other guy the week before for $2, got a berried female out of it, and some extras.

I was empathetic last time (before I found out the guy he was trashing the guy he bought the shrimp from). This time I'm dumbfounded that he totally missed the point that I'm not upset with the switch but the courtesy.

Besides, as he stated, "It's ONLY one shrimp." If that's the case, "Put the F---'ing shrimp in the bag and follow-through with your deal!" That's not what I said, I was a lot nicer about it. I don't have time to get in a pissing match with people over stupid crap. But I'm also not going to be anyone's door mat. He responded and said, "I don't even need the tank, I was just being nice to you." <rolling eyes>

I ended up buying the original shrimp for $2.50 each (included shipping).

[chiligum]

What a c--k, i am a power seller on ebay and it's all about honesty, your name soon goes downhill if you start messing about with agreements...He should have phoned 1st before changing any of your agreement to check if it was ok, and before you wasted your time and your fuel.

[Second Hand Pat]

Eric, I agree with your wife.

[stephcps]

Totally agree with you. It was a deal. A deal is a deal. If you can't hold your end, then you give the other person a head's up and offer of alternative...before they drive an hour!

[Chicago Discus]

Eric Unfortunately when you make a deal with someone online you have no way of telling who they are or there intensions. I try to square everything away before the deals made and I would have made him meet me half way at a rest stop or restaurant or something................Josie

[nwehrman]

Eric - I agree with you too, you had a deal and he should have held up his end or called way before you would have left to say he couldn't! And then discuss alternatives!

Nicole

[DiscusOnly]

Funny you post this but the last time I did a trade with someone on another forum (yes for SSS CRS). The transcation took over 4 months and it was still not resolved and I finally just gave up on the whole thing. In the end, I didn't really lose any $ but it was a lot of wasted time. It's not always about the money and transactions like that just leave a bad taste in your mouth for trusting someone words. In the end person sponsorship got yanked (I reported the person to the forum owner).

I just my recommendation in the future is to

1. Try to avoid trade when it's possible.
2. If you must trade, make it quick

[YSS]

There are always two sides to every story, so I would love to hear that the other guy had to say about what happened. But if things happened exactly the way you described, then you have every right to say what you said and feel how you felt. That guy is truly a dbag for pulling what he pulled. So, he called you from a store? What? So, he bagged the shrimp, then realized he was short, then goes somewhere to buy something, then calls you while he was checking out? Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

[Skip]

DiscusOnly.. What shrimp forum do go to....?

Deals/trades should be agreed upon if u dont know exactly what u have.. Ps eric,, what were the fancy shrimo.. Petco has $1 per gallon sale.. I am goin to stock up on 20longs.. Have 2 want 4more and put them on racks

[Discus-n00b]

There are always two sides to every story, so I would love to hear that the other guy had to say about what happened. But if things happened exactly the way you described, then you have every right to say what you said and feel how you felt. That guy is truly a dbag for pulling what he pulled. So, he called you from a store? What? So, he bagged the shrimp, then realized he was short, then goes somewhere to buy something, then calls you while he was checking out? Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

This. I always like to hear both sides, but I don't take you as a fabricator of lies Eric so I would side with you at this point. And the store is quite weird.

[Harry Marsh]

I would seriously small claims that out of 'respect'

Claim foreseeable consequential damages due to his wilful misconduct (gas, time, etc).
Breach of contract

Breach of duty of good faith and fair dealing

Unfair and deceptive trade practices

Allege about two grand and sit back and wait for a judge to yell at him

People like this need taught a lesson

[Skip]

How did 4 shrimp stack up as replacements for the 1

[John_Nicholson]

I say kick his arse.....

-john

[ShinShin]

A deal is a deal. I think you were accommodating even though you were the one on the wrong end of the deal. You ought to have been giving a heads-up before you drove that far. He said it was only one shrimp. Maybe you ought to have replied yes, it is only one shrimp. What's the big deal. Let me have it.

Mat

[roclement]

I say that meet the guy, take the shrimp, kick his ***! JK of course.
sounds like the guy is a douche to me.

Rodrigo

[Chicago Discus]

I say that meet the guy, take the shrimp, kick his ***! JK of course.
sounds like the guy is a douche to me.

Rodrigo
now now Rod there is always two sides to every situation you know that.........Josie

[Sean Buehrle]

Your correct, a deal is a deal.

I would have done the same thing.

It's his fault for not knowing what he had to trade with.

I would take the low road and share this story everywhere he goes on the Internet, name included, screw him.

[wdeleon01]

When i agree to a trade I know what I have ahead of time instead of waiting till the last minute. He should have given you the 9th shrimp on principle. It was his fault for not knowing what he had to start off with. I totally agree with you.

[John_Nicholson]

I assume you have his number...go post it on a gay porn site....

-john

[Melissa]

Eric, I agree with your wife.
+1


I say that meet the guy, take the shrimp, kick his ***! JK of course.
sounds like the guy is a douche to me.

Rodrigo
LOL take his shrimp and kick his ***! LoL!! Made me laugh.


now now Rod there is always two sides to every situation you know that.........Josie
Oh please.


I assume you have his number...go post it on a gay porn site....

-john
LOL! Yes!!!!! John! Awesome idea, I vote for this. Any porn site will suffice. Better yet, post some ad on craigslist- a deal nobody can refuse and use his number ;) lol
Only joking of course.

[Chicago Discus]

Ms mama your going to be ok............Josie

[magewynd]

I assume you have his number...go post it on a gay porn site....

-john

Now why would you want to do that?.......... We all know he's gonna promise nine, and only come up with eight (or less). We are talking shrimp, right?

[Melissa]

Eric- so to be clear, this guy HAD a 9th shrimp of the kind you had agreed upon, but didn't want to give it to you because he wanted to keep a certain number of them for himself? Or did he only have 8 of the kind but thought he had more?

[fattubwhale]

+1
LOL! Yes!!!!! John! Awesome idea, I vote for this. Any porn site will suffice. Better yet, post some ad on craigslist- a deal nobody can refuse and use his number ;)

+1

There is always 2 sides to the story... but, when you take the inititive to drive an Hr. away to make the transaction happen and he mentions he only have 8 instead of 9 10 min prior to arriving I would of been P. Off to and would if called the guy out also! If anything he should of had/thrown in a extra shrimp just for him driving an hr. out just to hook up, I would of made it worth his time!
These are the type of people I BLACK LIST and never deal with again...

[laborelch]

+1

If anything he should of had/thrown in a extra shrimp just for him driving an hr. out just to hook up, I would of made it worth his time!


+1

[ericatdallas]

Deals/trades should be agreed upon if u dont know exactly what u have.. Ps eric,, what were the fancy shrimo.. Petco has $1 per gallon sale.. I am goin to stock up on 20longs.. Have 2 want 4more and put them on racks

they were pumpkin shrimp... the neocaridina orange. I wish Petco was nearby :( I'll check if they ship... I think there might be one in Cinci...



How did 4 shrimp stack up as replacements for the 1

They were pretty common. He was going to give me Sakura... he priced them at $2. The value in the Oranges to me weren't the dollar value, but the limited availability. I mean, if he included 100 RCS, it wouldn't have worked for me even if it they were in theory worth more than $8. He didn't seem to understand that...


Eric- so to be clear, this guy HAD a 9th shrimp of the kind you had agreed upon, but didn't want to give it to you because he wanted to keep a certain number of them for himself? Or did he only have 8 of the kind but thought he had more?

Yes, you are correct. He had a ninth shrimp, a tenth shrimp, and according to our conversation a 27th shrimp. He also had 50 more shrimp on special order coming in a few weeks.

[ericatdallas]

There are always two sides to every story, so I would love to hear that the other guy had to say about what happened.

Here ya go... I stripped his username. This is verbatim what he wrote to me in chronological order.


I am nor sure I understand what difference 1 shrimp make's . My only other option was to give you something b-grade . I was giving you $24 worth of additional shrimp vs. the $8 and had them in a nice plastic shoebox with a snap on lid . I picked you nice shrimp . I was trying to treat you like I or most people I know would like to be treated , giving you more or something better than you asked for . Shortage's and death's happen all the time with live thing's that's the way it is . If you can learn to respect people I will be happy to deal with you again .

Now me...



I think respect works both ways. You had my phone number and you should have asked me if it was okay to CHANGE our agreement. I would have agreed to it. On principle, it is kind of poor form to change an agreement last minute on someone. It would be like me bringing 8 ten gallon tanks in the place of a 75 gallon tank. Sure, you have more tanks and more water volume, but it's not what I had agreed upon. Measure of fairness is different between people. Maybe you would have been okay with 8 ten gallon tanks, just as I was okay with your alteration, but it's something you should ask first.

I was okay to proceed, but at the end of our conversation, you stated, "I'm fine with not dealing with you," even after I said, "No, it's fine. I'll go ahead with it." It went three times before I finally said, "Fine, let's not do it."

I would have appreciated you let me know. You said it was ONE shrimp. You're right. So if that was the case, you should have honored your original deal and included the agreed upon amount of shrimp. It was only one. As you said, you were getting more.

If you can understand that I was doing more than just trading a tank, but my time to drive down there to make the trade as well. I didn't originally plan to go all that way, but my wife decided that if I was going to drive half way there, let's make it worth it and go to Ikea to look around. It was a win-win scenario. It was something I would not have done had it not been to trade the tank with you. So the next time you ask someone to drive even 20-30 minutes to meet you, it would be nice to confirm that it's okay to change the terms of the agreement.

Try to do that with your eBay or Aquabid customers. Let me know how it goes.

Again, respect works both ways. Understand that and I would be happy to deal with you in the future.

Now him...


Well thank's for at least responding . Please read your analogy and you may begin to see you are only giving respect one way your way . 10 gallon tank's are completely different from 1 much larger tank . Even the cashier listening to our conversation clearly understood the situation . Sorry you did not get your way but that is life . Accepting change is something we all need to do sometime's . And yes I should have called you but 99 out of 100 people would have no problem with what I offered you and I was shocked in fact that you did not . Most people are pretty understanding and in general nice . I did not really need that 75 ( I added that to my trade list wondering if you still had it ) but i am sure it was nice and because I respected you and valued your friendship I accepted your deal . When you called back and complained I realized I had misjudged you and if something that small bothered you there was no point in my continueing to accept anything but exactly what I was looking for . I am not happy you had to drain the tank and load it into your car So I will apologive for that but realize it was your action that initiated the negation of the deal not mine . In my situation anything that is going to be stressful is not worth it no matter what .

Now me...


Sorry you don't understand commitments and agreements. We'll agree to disagree. Hope you have success in future business dealings, I mean that. I hope you at least take away that some people like to see follow through.

Take care.

honestly, I don't see where I was disrespectful or asking that respect was given to me but not returned.

If you do, I honestly want to know. When someone so strongly implies that I'm being selfish or unreasonable, I really dig hard to make sure that I'm not delusional.

[Melissa]

The guy was presumptuous. And (as my aunts voice echoes in my ears as I say this from hearing it from her so many times in my life) "We all know what ASSuming does!" "It makes an *** out of U and ME." lol

And it sounded like the clerk was faced with this guy and of course she wouldn't disagree with a customer... I mean come on.

[PC1]

And it sounded like the clerk was faced with this guy and of course she wouldn't disagree with a customer... I mean come on.
My thoughts exactly. Also getting 4 shrimp that are completely different then the shrimp you wanted that can not be kept together because they will breed out the colors is wrong. Not only for the possibility that you have to put them separate somewhere but if you already have them the goal was for something new. The other thing I noticed...$24 for 4 Sakura? Even beat red adults thats high. Don't worry you handled that better than most, your wife was right!
Edit: Also what does the clerk know about the value of trading shrimp?

[ericatdallas]

My thoughts exactly. Also getting 4 shrimp that are completely different then the shrimp you wanted that can not be kept together because they will breed out the colors is wrong. Not only for the possibility that you have to put them separate somewhere but if you already have them the goal was for something new.

That did cross my mind at the time. I actually didn't have anywhere I wanted to put them except maybe in the RCS tank. I was thinking (at the time) I would either throw them into the RCS tank or setup a temporary 10G tank until I figured out what to do. The most annoying part of it was that he was offended EVEN though he was trying to pull a fast one on me. I was still going to go through with the deal but he was so irritated that I even questioned the 'modification' that he through a hissy fit. Ah well.


The other thing I noticed...$24 for 4 Sakura? Even beat red adults thats high. Don't worry you handled that better than most, your wife was right!
Edit: Also what does the clerk know about the value of trading shrimp?

Lol, yeah, I just bought 30 painted fire reds for $40 from a guy. That's an outrageously good deal. You're right, a random grocery store clerk is not going to be qualified to evaluate the value of the trade. Maybe she was, but I highly doubt it.

[LizStreithorst]

I say that meet the guy, take the shrimp, kick his ***! JK of course.
sounds like the guy is a douche to me.
Rodrigo

Or fly me over and have me do it for you. He wouldn't dare touch me becasue I'm old and little. I'd be my forceful self, shame the guy, and get the job done. If he happened to be in the mood for a physical fight I would kick his knees backwards. That might make him change his mind, but you wouldn't get your shrimp. I'd have to high tail it before I landed myself in jail.


I assume you have his number...go post it on a gay porn site....
john

Barring flying me over this is your next best bet. Revenge can be sweet.

[ghurlag]

Or fly me over and have me do it for you. He wouldn't dare touch me becasue I'm old and little. I'd be my forceful self, shame the guy, and get the job done. If he happened to be in the mood for a physical fight I would kick his knees backwards. That might make him change his mind, but you wouldn't get your shrimp. I'd have to high tail it before I landed myself in jail.



Barring flying me over this is your next best bet. Revenge can be sweet.

I am about to turn my wife loose on our renters for consistently being late for the same reason. You can't fight back against her and look like you are in the right. She's 5'3" and very sweet but DON'T cross her. :)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Alpha Pro Breeders]

Shrimp are very hard to count, especially in a planted tank. He should have unde restimated his inventory instead of over estimating. When my numbers get that low on shrimp I'll take them out of inventory so something like that wouldn't happen. There is no excuse for being rude!

[ericatdallas]

Shrimp are very hard to count, especially in a planted tank. He should have unde restimated his inventory instead of over estimating. When my numbers get that low on shrimp I'll take them out of inventory so something like that wouldn't happen. There is no excuse for being rude!

What's odd is I noticed that he got an order for 50 more a few days later on Aquabid (as in, he left feedback for the Asian exporter), so he at latest got it that day. He knew he was getting 50 more in, but still thought it was okay to swap out the shrimp.

I know it's one freaking shrimp, but to me, the most irritating part was how he handled it. Another point is, I managed to sell a few RCS (so many that I actually had to stop), but my friends see them and say, "I wouldn't give you a dime for those. I would rather spend the money you're selling them for and buy like 1 lb of shrimp at the grocery store."

So, same price but different shrimp and different valuation.

I actually was going to order some from the exporter and purposely undercut him everywhere he sold, but being vindictive is a recipe for disaster. I didn't mind paying the 60% premium he bought them for, because he obviously took the risk in receiving the shipment and that's business, b/c I also didn't want 50 shrimp, but to substitute like that when he knew I was driving an hour to meet him... grr...

[LizStreithorst]

What's odd is I noticed that he got an order for 50 more a few days later on Aquabid (as in, he left feedback for the Asian exporter), so he at latest got it that day. He knew he was getting 50 more in, but still thought it was okay to swap out the shrimp.

I know it's one freaking shrimp, but to me, the most irritating part was how he handled it. Another point is, I managed to sell a few RCS (so many that I actually had to stop), but my friends see them and say, "I wouldn't give you a dime for those. I would rather spend the money you're selling them for and buy like 1 lb of shrimp at the grocery store."

So, same price but different shrimp and different valuation.

I actually was going to order some from the exporter and purposely undercut him everywhere he sold, but being vindictive is a recipe for disaster. I didn't mind paying the 60% premium he bought them for, because he obviously took the risk in receiving the shipment and that's business, b/c I also didn't want 50 shrimp, but to substitute like that when he knew I was driving an hour to meet him... grr...

Baby, you got screwed. The seller was dishonest but it was your choice to buy or to not. If you want revenge do what Nicholson said, the porn site thing. John Nicholson knows how to win a fight.

[roclement]

Liz...the guy might like that! LOL

Rodrigo

[warblad79]

Make sure you pay it thru Paypal so that if they try to screw you up, you can file a dispute.

[LizStreithorst]

Liz...the guy might like that! LOL

Rodrigo

Quit making me break out laughing alone, in front of the comptuer, Ringo.

I would take take odds that he would not like it. IME most fish guys are straight. It would be fun to do! If I were ericatdallas I do that and then put the entire mess behind me.

[Scott293]

Heck we could all post that about him ;). I like John's idea. Eric I also like your wife's interpretation of the guy. That was rotten, the deal was made and he changed it after you had spent an hours worth of gas. How does he expect to do business that way? Or for that matter get along with people treating them that way?

Since I have been selling discus locally I have come across some stories myself about buyers. It's been fun on the most part, meeting people who have the same interests and helping with what I know. Then there is the, I'll be there in 1/2 hour... ... ... 2 hours later when my evening is now shot for waiting, I call and ask if they are coming. They reply with well I decided to wait until another day, can I come by tomorrow evening? Uh what time did you plan on? Some time after 5. Me, we better set a time so I don't spend my whole evening waiting for you. Oh Oh I am sorry about that... What do people think some times? I wouldn't ever do people like that. Then there are the wheeler dealers, lets face it, discus for $10, no I am not doing any wheeling or dealing. But if the nice person doesn't say a thing I throw in the extras.

I guess when dealing online and classifieds some people tend to take advantage or not be considerate. That's just some people I guess. It's like the person driving in the left lane during traffic hour, going the same speed as everyone to their right with a 2 mile gap in front of them. Not a care at all for anyone in the world around them. It's all about them, they could care less about anyone else in the world. If they can take advantage of others they will

[ericatdallas]

Heck we could all post that about him ;).

Do you know who I am talking about?


It's been fun on the most part, meeting people who have the same interests and helping with what I know. Then there is the, I'll be there in 1/2 hour... ... ... 2 hours later when my evening is now shot for waiting, I call and ask if they are coming. They reply with well I decided to wait until another day, can I come by tomorrow evening? Uh what time did you plan on? Some time after 5. Me, we better set a time so I don't spend my whole evening waiting for you. Oh Oh I am sorry about that... What do people think some times? I wouldn't ever do people like that.

I'm so sick of those. Driving to Cincinnati and waiting for two hours. This is why I tell people I'll meet them at their house. I've only once accidentally been late by 30 minutes, but I was sure to call and let them know. Someone picked up Discus from me last week and he was spot on. I still called him 5 minutes before he got here b/c I needed to go to work and if he wasn't coming, I was leaving. I'm thinking the best thing to do might be to 'open' shop at certain times of the day or week.



Then there are the wheeler dealers, lets face it, discus for $10, no I am not doing any wheeling or dealing. But if the nice person doesn't say a thing I throw in the extras.

Okay, I always try to make a deal but I'm usually reasonable about it. Like, "If I buy 20 can I have it for $XX.XX?" or if I don't want it, "Hey, I don't want it, but let me throw an offer out there since you said you need it gone." I'll usually mean it. If I need it, I'll buy it, but if it's "might like to have around just in case" I'll give them an offer especially when they say are eager to sell. "You don't have to agree now, just let me know if it doesn't sell and shoot me an e-mail."

So I'm guilty of that sometimes :P

[Scott293]

No I don't know who you are talking about