why would having an anerobic bacteria colony ever be bad?

[pH7]

Aerobic bacteria can live in the same filter as anerobic, I've been told on more than one occaision and have read as much as well. They just need different filter media -- it comes down to pore size. Anerobic bacteria need a different pore size basically (a smaller one where oxygen molecules can't enter so readily), you can google it, search for "seachem matrix" and read about what it does. (I'm not telling you to go do it, I'm inviting you to "see what I see" so as to provide a platform of mutual understanding on the topic from which conclusions can be made without error)...

And yet another way to get anerobic bacteria is to set up your filtration in a way that your water flows "across" a DSB (deep sand bed) filter *after* flowing "through" your actual filtration system; basically the water just flows over a big bucket or tank full of sand, at least two feet deep, before re-entering the aquarium. The reason for placing it behind (and not before) the primary filtration system is so that the DSB doesn't gather mulm or other detritus; it's purpose is not to nitrify from NO2 to NO3 and then to NO4, but to nitrify from the nitrate stage of NO4 to N gas and up and away out of the water it goes.

So how is this bad? You have a nitrate sink, actively helping you suck nitrate out of your environment in tandem with your dilligent water changes. I keep reading on this forum that an anerobic colony is bad. Why?

[pH7]

I just wanted to add this bit of afterthought to the original question:

Just because you have anerobic bacteria doesn't mean it must be exclusively so (no aerobic) because of poor water conditions where oxygen has been depleted. Neither does it mean that you are necessarily going to be producing deadly hydrogen sulfide gas; that isn't the direct byproduct of anerobic bacteria as I understand it.

So why are anerobic bactera colonies somehow unhealthy?

[chiligum]

I prefer questions like "What colour background looks the nicest?!"...Sorry!

[lipadj46]

If you believe an. bacteria are smaller than oxygen molecules then you can trust seachem's claims. i don't believe they can both thrive in the same media. as far as denitrators go sure they are neat but a water change is cheap and good for the soul

[nc0gnet0]

too date I have only seen one filter that tageted nitrates that made any sense and had a reasonable chance of significantly reducing nitrates........

google turf algae scrubber.

The rest are just marketing gimmicks IMHO.

Rick

[pH7]

I need to apologize for a minor technicality that I messed up. Nitrate is NO3, not NO4... in fact, NO4 doesn't really exist in nature that I could find. Bottom line is that it was very late for me in the night when I posted and I fowled it up.

Thanks for the responses!

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[ericatdallas]

Anerobic bacteria need a different pore size basically (a smaller one where oxygen molecules can't enter so readily), you can google it, search for "seachem matrix" and read about what it does.

Wouldn't it be easier to have two filters. One that promotes aerobic bacteria and one that promotes anaerobic bacteria rather than try to fit it in one device and possibly destroying the effectiveness of both? I don't know much about the anaerobic filters that are on the market, but they do exist. If you think you can figure a way to do it differently or have found other exeriences/evidence I definitely would be interested in seeing it. I almost always ignore marketing hype from a manufacturer. For it to be legal, it just has to have a sliver of truth.


too date I have only seen one filter that tageted nitrates that made any sense and had a reasonable chance of significantly reducing nitrates........

google turf algae scrubber.

The rest are just marketing gimmicks IMHO.

Rick

Rick, I was thinking the same thing. The reef guys have a lot of info on it, but it doesn't get used as much in the fw community. My thought was using one and using the algae for my shrimp.

Also

[pH7]

For it to be legal, it just has to have a sliver of truth.

So true, so true.

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[pH7]

If you believe an. bacteria are smaller than oxygen molecules then you can trust seachem's claims.

I don't believe that oxygen molecules are smaller than anerobic bacteria, I just know that the anerobic need a smaller pore size in order to better remain secluded from it, just as in a scenario where you have a deep and unmaintained substrate where water is present in the rock but it has become packed so tightly and there is so little flow that oxygen is never restored once depleted. Again, it's about the ability to seclude the bacteria from oxygen sources based on lack of exposure to it.



i don't believe they can both thrive in the same media. as far as denitrators go sure they are neat but a water change is cheap and good for the soul

I agree that water changes are good for the soul ;-)

I am admittedly somewhat of a geek, and the science itself, on its own merits, fascinates me, as do the possibilities. I've found some plans online for a simple DIY DSB filter and I'm going to set up a controlled test (not on discus tanks) to see what there is to be seen and observe the affects of the DSB over the period of a few months.

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[ericatdallas]

I think the intent of the message was meant, to 'slow oxygen throughput to a sufficiently low volume as to promote anaerobic bacteria growth'.


not that it really matters, but bacteria as we know it cannot be smaller than an oxygen gas molecure.

Oxygen gas is made of two oxygen atoms.

Bacteria have at least one chromosome with thousands of base pairs. Each base pair is made up of more than one atom with some containing two Oxygen atoms.

Go with the algae scrubber though. It's been proven to work and it's cheap.

[lipadj46]

So if the pores are so small and twisted that O2 is depleted and then we are to believe nitrate and water is going to get in there enough to make a difference, i don't buy it. seachem (the ones who make this claim) don't even support this, they say if you want to have matrix or denitrate work as a denitrator it has to be put in a slow flow reactor where O2 can be depleted and the an. bacteria can do their thing and even then it cannot hold a candle to plants or an algae scrubber

[Chicago Discus]

"~pH7, Aquarium Ninja".........really ....oh gotta know more

[pH7]

I think the intent of the message was meant, to 'slow oxygen throughput to a sufficiently low volume as to promote anaerobic bacteria growth'.
Yes, exactly.


Go with the algae scrubber though. It's been proven to work and it's cheap.
I'll check it out. I'm curious how such a thing could work without introducing algae spores everywhere else outside the "scrubber"

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[pH7]

"~pH7, Aquarium Ninja".........really ....oh gotta know more

Yeah, check out www.aquariumninja.com for an explanation behind it.

It's what I'm aspiring to become ;-)

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[pH7]

Yeah, check out www.aquariumninja.com for an explanation behind it.

It's what I'm aspiring to become ;-)

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

You'll notice a gap in the dates of the posts on that (my) blog, between then and today. This is simply because I lost that original tank when I had to relocate to a new residence after I was a couple months into the Aquarium Ninja project. I'm going to resume posting again soon.

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[pH7]

You'll notice a gap in the dates of the posts on that (my) blog, between then and today. This is simply because I lost that original tank when I had to relocate to a new residence after I was a couple months into the Aquarium Ninja project. I'm going to resume posting again soon.

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

Hmmm, I guess the project was not as amusing to others as it is to me. Well, at least I have my fun :-)

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

[ShinShin]

In a properly maintained discus tank there is absolutely no reason to have an anaerobic colony, nor in all my years have I ever seen anyone suggest it.

[Pardal]

+1
Anaerobic bacteria was the reason that undergravel filters disapear of the aquarium hobby many years ago, and we are not talking about discus only.

[mi-ko]

I hope this is the right place to ask questions regarding nitrosonomas and nitrobacter bacteria. What happens to these bacterias when outside filter has been stopped over 10 hours or so and restart again ? Is it bad for fish to have the water from the filter going into an aquarium?

Thank you.

Sachio

[lipadj46]

Yes i would empty out the filter and refill it wi dechlored water

[ShinShin]

And do the same with canister filters as well. It doesn't take as long as 10hrs. either.

[jimg]

And do the same with canister filters as well. It doesn't take as long as 10hrs. either.+1 I have read it starts declining in 15 mins with no 02

[ericatdallas]

+1 to the above...

With that said, I've started a canister filter that wasn't running before (i've done this a few times) right up with no 'substantial' impact on my aquarium. However, this was due to some laziness so I wouldn't recommend it. I also quickly do a large WC after starting it back up. So it's not like it's very dangerous but still not recommended.

Anyway, I've gotten rid of all my canister filters. Part of the reason why I ran them like that was they would lose their prime and I had a hard time re-priming them sometimes so I would switch them off so not to damage the motor. Once I got around to reaching under my aquarium stand and using the priming mechanism, it might be a few days actually. For the reason of it being a pain, I've switched 100% to HOBs now and am happy with my decision. I just pull the media out, rinse it and throw it back.

[Jerry1]

With eheim mech, 8L of pond matrix and many inches of sponges in my 2262, I should have both types of bacteria. I've seen the addition of a standard 2213 setup drop nitrates significantly so call me a believer. I have also had face time with Seachem techs and they report the same results I have personally seen.

I'm still doing daily changes since I'm growing out, but that will be substantially relaxed once grown. At least that is the plan.