55 gallons OK for Discus?

[Unitus]

I have a heavily planted 55 gallon.

Flora:
80+ stems of cabomba
90+ chain swords
12 Amazon swords
3 flame swords
1 green lotus
a few random spiralis and parva crypts

Fauna:

14 serpae tetras
8 otocinclus

PH a stable 7.2
Temp. 85-86 F.
Water change 1/3 a week
Filtration by 2 Marineland Emperor 400s

Could I put discus in here? I know the serpaes have an aggressive nature, but they allowed themselves to be bullied by the quarter-sized angels that where in the tank two weeks ago. Plus, they're so busy constantly breeding... I think they are OK in numbers over 10.
My LFS has 4" discus for $33. Not bad. Should I get 4 and keep a pair when/if it forms? I don't plan on show-quality or breeder fish; I just want a challenge.

[discuspaul]

Well, if you want a 'challenge', but not a recipe for disappointment, and perhaps even disaster - consider this:
your tank is indeed very heavily planted, and I'd suggest you reduce your plantings by at least 50%, probably by 75%, for starters - you need to give the discus some space & swimming room - then get rid of/move out both the Serpae Tetras and the Otos (both can potentially cause a problem for discus- Tetras for nipping, and Otos for possibly taking a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet).
Then, and only then, could you get those 4 - 4" discus and see how it goes. But be prepared to give them a lot of attention and religiously do your large, frequent water changes to keep them healthy. Also hope your LFS has a good reputation, and has healthy, well-shaped discus - otherwise you are likely to be very disappointed.

Forgive the bad news, just trying to help you avoid potential big problems.

[Unitus]

Oh, I'm fine with bad news. I LOVE my plants. Is it impossible to keep a heavily planted discus tank? There's a lot of room toward the front (about six inches up from the substrate, five inches back from the front glass, and six inches in from the sides), though I doubt that is enough. My angels spent a lot of time in the cabomba and swords. Wouldn't discus do the same? I've heard they get stunted from their bestial potential 8-inch size if not in adequate quarters. This doesn't bother me. Like I said, I won't be showing or breeding them. All the discus at my LFS are very well-shaped. Perfectly round. Plump. Active. Always picking through the sand and decor for morsels. Seem pretty healthy to me.

Are you sure serpaes are that bad? I saw a tank here with discus and serpaes. They looked well together. What algae eaters should I get to replace the otos. Farlowella cats? I tried BN plecos, but they are poop machines and I can't stand cleaning poop out of my law of chain swords. As unwilling as I am to change anything in this tank, should I wait? Should I try one and see if it survives? Thanks in advance.

[Samsmobb]

Truthfully I'd think they'd love your tank , mind showing us a picture??
A friend of mind has 6 discus in a 75g doing weekly wc of about 30-40% and he got a pair who recently formed and started laying eggs
He has 2-3 clown loaches, and a 4-5" stingray

[discuspaul]

Wish I had better news for you - but it is very difficult to successfully keep discus in a heavily planted tank - mainly for the reason that it's almost impossible to properly maintain the clean, quality, water conditions that discus require to do well. Room to swim is not the greatest factor - the amount of detritus you are capable of vacuuming out with each wc is relatively critical. If you had a much larger tank, this wouldn't likely be an issue, but a 55 gal tank is a minimum-sized for discus to begin with, so you're already pushing the envelope.

And Serpaes can be ok, some discus-keepers do well with them, but there are many other stories to the contrary. It's just one more nail in the coffin when you're planning to start off with discus in a small, heavily planted tank. To my knowledge and experience, many algae eaters, except some BNP's, can potentially pose the problem I mentioned for discus. It may not occur often, but it can & does - so it's just another 'strike', in the circumstances you're planning. (btw, they're not algae eaters, but many Cory Cats make excellent discus tankmates.)
And yes, you're just like me - I'm not interested in raising show quality fish of optimum size, so long as they're comfortable and healthy - but you do have to give them half a chance by doing some of the right things for them. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from ?
If you're happy with the discus you see at your LFS, then go for it, but please seriously consider what I have advised you before.
Best of luck.

[lipadj46]

Truthfully I'd think they'd love your tank , mind showing us a picture??
A friend of mind has 6 discus in a 75g doing weekly wc of about 30-40% and he got a pair who recently formed and started laying eggs
He has 2-3 clown loaches, and a 4-5" stingray

A stingray in a 75? That tank is going to crash when that gets as wide as the tank

[Samsmobb]

Yes I know he plans to move it to a different tank after of course but it's nice to see it with discus like a couple ppl on this forum have done.

[gerrard00]

I started out with four in my 72 and then got two more. The difference was night and day. Instantly the fish were less timid, there was less fighting and they ate more aggressively. If I ever find myself in a situation where I don't have enough tank space for six, I'll just switch to keeping another species.

[ericatdallas]

I think your tank is going to be too heavily stocked. Just my opinion. Don't forget, while plants should 'clean' your water it also takes up space. Just like a TV, lamp, dresser, etc makes a room smaller, so does plants, rock,s heaters, etc.

Otos also suck on discus or at least have been known to. I used to have otos and the predation worked both ways. I noticed my otos on my discus and I noticed an ever diminishing number of otos and tetras.

Discus are shoaling fish so you want at least six. I have always noticed better luck the more you have. In fact, I think 8-9 is the 'magic' number that I will use from now on. I have split 14 fish into 8 in a 75G and 6 in a 55G before and (subjective assessment) think that the 8 in 75G looked happier. The six looked easily started and were always huddled together (not sure if time would have solved this). In fact, after I sold 4 in the 75G and 2 in the 55G, I noticed that the 4 from the 55G perked up once I put them in the 75G again.

I also have a 75G with five Discus in it right now and they are missing their friends that I just sold off. I am going to move 3 into that tank once they go out of QT.

In summary:

- Need more fish
- Overstock
- Incompatible tank mates.

JMO though. I've seen some tanks lately with discus that would make your tank sound like discus heaven in comparison.

[Unitus]

I vacuum out quite a lot of stuff (well, not a lot) each W/C. I'm a clean freak as it is, and can't stand having a dirty tank (or anything, for that matter). I do have a picture but the chain, flame, and amazon swords are still young, so they are quite small. It's still basically a jungle of cabomba and wood. Could I get away with one discus? I know they like their company... Perhaps I could spend more and get a pair on Aquabid? And I'm very appreciative of all the replies. I would rather do things the right way the first time!

[ericatdallas]

I've had a pair of adults in a heavily planted tank. I didn't enjoy the work. So I don't recommend it. I also had no discus keeping experience at the time and had a low-tech planted tank prior. So it was a recipe for disaster in my case.

So, a planted discus tank is still my goal one day, but the nightmare from it last time is still haunting me.

I also don't think two discus in a tank is as beautiful as a group of Discus. Thats just my opinion.

Just stick with adults, avoid albinos due to light sensitivity is jsut my opinion. I've tried to grow out juvies in planted when I first started thinking (like almost everyone) that the plants will help absorb nitrates, and my juvies didn't make it. Two did grow very large though but I eventually transferred them to a BB tank.

I did daily WCs of up to 50%. I think that actually caused a problem one time by disrupting the gravel and pockets of trapped debris. I also ended up having large worms or leeches in my tank.

[Unitus]

New question that I should have asked in the first place. Can discus survive in a planted tank? Not thrive. Survive. At the minimum. Can they stay alive?

[TURQ64]

To directly answer your last question, there are loads of Discus in planted tanks. To answer a previous one about 'doing things the right way the fisrt time', Lose the plants, and try raising them in a BB tank. That's the 'right way' for beginner's in Discus keeping. No matter how you shake it, raising them is an expensive hobby across the board. No way around that fact...Something everyone should consider before trying to keep them. Plenty of folks may dispute this post,but IMO, this is how to start up.

[jimg]

discus in a 55 is not a good choice imo tank is too narrow. 50g 46g bow front better for them than 55

[BillyinNYC]

Have only been keeping discus for 3 years, so not an expert--though I've had experience with freshwater, planted, and saltwater aquariums for more than 20 years. In my opinion, raising discus with plants it totally doable--that's what I've done from the start and the discus grow and grow, and have spawned collectively more than three dozen times. It's hard work I suppose, but worth it. BUT, if a person has any doubt of keeping up with the maintenance and balancing the requirements of the plants and discus, then I would agree that a BB is best. Or as a compromise that's more appealing to the eyes, maybe a simple hardscape set-up with some rocks, or gravel, or driftwood, etc.--this would still allow for easy clean-up.

Never had a 55 gallon on the basis of dimensions not being ideal, but can see that creating some unique problems for discus..

[ericatdallas]

Perhaps I could spend more and get a pair on Aquabid? And I'm very appreciative of all the replies. I would rather do things the right way the first time!

beware of aquabid, especially for Discus. The sellers that are both 'regular' SD members or sponsors might be okay, but a lot of the people sell stunted fish. Also, I know a few people who sell their 'unconfirmed' pairs as pairs. So now you're paying a premium for fish that might be female-female (or worse, not really a pair at all).

You might be okay if it's a local P/U though.

I know it's not the easiest thing to do and I agree with Turq that you should go BB for your first tank, but if you like most others jump right in anyway, try to do it with adults or grow out juvies in a separate tank.

Also, if you can,you should take a pic of your LFS discus and post it. Four inch for $33 is a good deal UNLESS they're unhealthy.

[gerrard00]

I vacuum out quite a lot of stuff (well, not a lot) each W/C. I'm a clean freak as it is, and can't stand having a dirty tank (or anything, for that matter). I do have a picture but the chain, flame, and amazon swords are still young, so they are quite small. It's still basically a jungle of cabomba and wood. Could I get away with one discus? I know they like their company... Perhaps I could spend more and get a pair on Aquabid? And I'm very appreciative of all the replies. I would rather do things the right way the first time!

Have you ever seen discus eat? They grind their food, shooting small pieces of food everywhere. They are also not very good at rooting through plants to find food.

[Skip]

55g tanks s*ck for discus... too narrow.. only 12" deep.. BUT if you are stating out.. go bb tank.. for now.. until you get a hang of the water changes and discus care and grow them out..

ps.. if you are a neat freak with your tanks.. wait till you see all the fish poo.. on bb.. that you would not see in planted.. LOL

[Unitus]

I would not go BB if someone paid me to. BB tanks are ugly. It's the plants that make the aquarium look good, not the fish. That is, of course, just my opinion (I'm American [freedom of speech:p]).

See, I'm a big, BIG Takashi Amano/Nature Aquarium fan. I'm basically looking for a good centerpiece fish for my wannabe Nature Aquarium. I've seen Amano's discus layouts and decided that I wanted to try discus in a planted tank. If they are so impossible to keep in a small planted tank like my 55, I'll look elsewhere for a centerpiece fish (altum angels come to mind, though I would sell the adults due to size issues and get new young ones). Sorry about all the inconvenience... didn't know what I was getting into. Thanks again for all the info.

[gerrard00]

I would not go BB if someone paid me to. BB tanks are ugly. It's the plants that make the aquarium look good, not the fish. That is, of course, just my opinion (I'm American [freedom of speech:p]).

See, I'm a big, BIG Takashi Amano/Nature Aquarium fan. I'm basically looking for a good centerpiece fish for my wannabe Nature Aquarium. I've seen Amano's discus layouts and decided that I wanted to try discus in a planted tank. If they are so impossible to keep in a small planted tank like my 55, I'll look elsewhere for a centerpiece fish (altum angels come to mind, though I would sell the adults due to size issues and get new young ones). Sorry about all the inconvenience... didn't know what I was getting into. Thanks again for all the info.

Everyone has their opinion, I guess. Personally, if I were more into plants than the fish, I wouldn't be buying $150 fish to put in the tank when a school of tetras would do just as well and cost a lot less. I'm actually inching closer and closer to pulling the plants out of my tank every day.

I've read on forums that many "plant first" people don't like discus anyway, because their large size takes away from the scale of the aquascape. I think I've even read Tom Barr saying something to that effect, but I'm too lazy to search for the quote. I've only seen a few of Amano's discus layouts, but they all looked much larger than 55 gallons.

[Skip]

+1 Gerrad00

[judy]

New question that I should have asked in the first place. Can discus survive in a planted tank? Not thrive. Survive. At the minimum. Can they stay alive?
That is not a criterion you should even consider. Your setup is NOT suitable for discus, and everyone has told you that. I know it is not what you want to hear, but it is a fact. The Amano planted tanks you refer to have a lot less planting than you describe here (I have his books) and a lot more open space. And the tanks are professionally maintained-- those that aren't temporary constructs. And one or two discus in the tank (unless the two are an adult mated pair) is simply cruel. if you must have discus despite everything the repliers on this thread have told you, an adult mated pair is the only way to reasonably do it and still consider the health of the fish.
And be prepared for an insane amount of substrate cleaning and maintenance.

[jerman]

I have kept my discuss in heavily planted tanks for years. Started in a 55 and agree it is not an ideal size dimension. Just upgraded to a 90 and loving it. If you are keeping plants successfully already, and especially if you are running a hi-light/hi-tech plant tank, then you already have near perfect water quality. Just get your discus and enjoy them in your planted tank

[sunrise]

This thread reminds me of something David Ben Gurion said once."If the expert says it can't be done, get another expert.":angel:

[discuspaul]

This thread reminds me of something David Ben Gurion said once."If the expert says it can't be done, get another expert.":angel:

Love it !
And if that second expert says the same thing as the first, keep asking more experts till you find one that disagrees with the others.

[sunrise]

Love it !
And if that second expert says the same thing as the first, keep asking more experts till you find one that disagrees with the others.

Works for me.:o

[warblad79]

Yes! 55 gallons is OK for Discus. Infact I have about 10 Adult in my 55 Gallons bare bottom tank.

[judy]

Yes! 55 gallons is OK for Discus. Infact I have about 10 Adult in my 55 Gallons bare bottom tank.

the operative and most significant adjectives being BARE BOTTOM tank. The OP does not intend to go bare bottom. WORLD of difference.

[TNT77]

the operative and most significant adjectives being BARE BOTTOM tank. The OP does not intend to go bare bottom. WORLD of difference.
Idk even 10 adults in a 55g even bb is way overstocked imo.

[judy]

Very true. I shoulda caught that "little" problem as well...

[warblad79]

My 50 Gallon Planted Tank

Before
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/DiscusLover79/064.jpg

After
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/DiscusLover79/GroupPic2.jpg

One thing I can tell you, maintaining and cleaning it is not easy. I just realized that I'm more interested in keeping Discus so I decided to tear down my tank. I hope its help.