Discus behavior in bare bottom vs structured tanks

[PleiadesSTi]

I bought two new Discus today and I have noticed that in bare bottom tanks with little to no plant/cover that the Discus acts totally different as compared to a discus in a tank with substrate, plant (fake or Real) and driftwood. I especially notice that my discus love driftwood. When it gets algae on it they like to eat the algae.

The two I bought today for example. The Platinum Discus at the vendor were all hiding on the bottom in a bare bottom tank. When I got him home he was a totally different fish swimming all over the place begging for food like he owned the place.

I personally don't think that bare bottom tanks are conducive for Discus health. Like any fish they like cover and structure.

My question is this. What are your guys and gals experiences with Discus behavior in bare bottom versus tanks with cover and places to hide?

[Sean Buehrle]

Discus are fine in bb tanks, they get accustomed to them.

When talking about is a bb tank bad for discus health, the answer is heck no, that's why most people keep them in bb tanks, the tanks are much cleaner, high quality water as long as you are changing it regularly.

Don't go getting it in your head that a planted tank makes a discus feel better and confuse it with health.

What makes them healthy is clean water, not a tank packed with their poop and uneaten food.

Good luck :)

[3dees]

discus will adapt to any tank. a bb tank is easier to keep clean, but you still need to clean it. to imply that a scaped tank is packed with poop and uneaten food is just wrong. I have wilds in a biotope and my water is clean. nitrates never above 5. in over 20 months I have never medicated my fish and have the original 8 that I started with. in most cases it's a matter of what you are happy with. if discus must be kept in a bb tank, I would keep different fish because personally I don't want to look at a sterile box no matter how pretty the fish are. as for wilds, I see my fish act more natural swimming thru and under the wood. it's something you will never see in a bb tank. if you want and enjoy a bb tank, thats cool, but they can be just as dirty if you don't do what needs to be done. I probably spend much more time cleaning my tank because it's scaped, but I don't mind. thats the price of having a nicely scaped tank.

[YSS]

discus will adapt to any tank. a bb tank is easier to keep clean, but you still need to clean it. to imply that a scaped tank is packed with poop and uneaten food is just wrong. I have wilds in a biotope and my water is clean. nitrates never above 5. in over 20 months I have never medicated my fish and have the original 8 that I started with. in most cases it's a matter of what you are happy with. if discus must be kept in a bb tank, I would keep different fish because personally I don't want to look at a sterile box no matter how pretty the fish are. as for wilds, I see my fish act more natural swimming thru and under the wood. it's something you will never see in a bb tank. if you want and enjoy a bb tank, thats cool, but they can be just as dirty if you don't do what needs to be done. I probably spend much more time cleaning my tank because it's scaped, but I don't mind. thats the price of having a nicely scaped tank.

Agree 100%. If I had to keep my discus in a BB tank, I would not keep discus.

[brewmaster15]

Generally speaking if you give a discus a place to hide...it will hide , at least when you first get them. The instinct to hide or flee dominates a fish that feels threatened , scared or stressed. Thats why they hide or dart around when they feel this way.


Most new fish go thru a period of this...eventually they settle in though whether the tank is bare or scaped....What it comes down to is what you as the Hobbyist wants to see... A fish will see a hydrosponge or a breeding cone as nothing more than another structure to hide behind..just as it sees a piece of driftwood or a pile of plants, imo.

hth,
al

[PAR23]

I have grow outs in a BB tanks and adults in planted tank and as stated above, they have adapted well to both environments. Given enough time, they will feel right at home.

[PleiadesSTi]

Interesting to hear different viewpoints on this topic.

[ZX10R]

After years of having sand in my tanks I just recently sucked all the sand out of my 120 and left the 3D background and driftwood and I can't tell you how much happier I am. The tank still looks good, easier to clean, and my fish look so much better. I am sure it is because I can keep the water and tank cleaner but there colors are much brighter and to me they seem happier. I may add things to future tanks such as backgrounds, driftwood, and plants but I will never go back to having sand or substrate.

[John_Nicholson]

Yea I hate the way they hide in those blasted bare bottom tanks......

-john

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/DiscusJohn/100_9988-1.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

You can have structure and still have a bb tank btw.

[PleiadesSTi]

You can have structure and still have a bb tank btw.

Never said anything against that. My issue is with a completely bare tank. I should have been more specific.

[John_Nicholson]

The only time it would be a problem would be if folks did not have enough sense to either paint the bottom or tape some paper to the bottom.

-john

[PleiadesSTi]

The only time it would be a problem would be if folks did not have enough sense to either paint the bottom or tape some paper to the bottom.

-john

Both local to me Discus vendors I have been to have had tanks without painted bottoms or paper and the Discus all hide on the bottom. I will not name names.

[DiscusBR]

I used to have several Manzanita branches and pool filter sand in my 80g with 7 Cuipeuas:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee482/DiscusBR/Nov2011/Nov2011035.jpg

After a brown algae boom, I took the sand and almost all driftwood out and decided to go bb;

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee482/DiscusBR/Nov2011/janB12013.jpg

I am no fan of BB tanks, but I initially liked the new look. However, after a few days it became clear that the poop and the dirt becomes too clear and evident in a BB. I became convinced that the sand helps disguise all that and is much more pleasant to the eye. I now plan to bring the sand and some driftwood back.

In neither of the settings my 7 wilds were hiding. Did not notice much behavioral change.

[PleiadesSTi]

^ You have a background, driftwood, and structure. I have seen tanks with nothing other than the foam filters and the discus all hide on the bottom.

[DiscusBR]

^ You have a background, driftwood, and structure. I have seen tanks with nothing other than the foam filters and the discus all hide on the bottom.

True. But the second setting is a BB with very few places to hide, especially when compared to the first setting.

[yim11]

I have seen tanks with nothing other than the foam filters and the discus all hide on the bottom.

That is how my tanks are, just a cone (if breeder tank) and sponge filter, heaters are in the sumps underneath the tanks. None of my fish hide at the bottom.

[PleiadesSTi]

^ You have a cone which gives them structure. I'm talking about tanks that have nothing but filters, water, and a tank.

[brewmaster15]

^ You have a cone which gives them structure. I'm talking about tanks that have nothing but filters, water, and a tank.In many Asian Countries, thats all there is...and they breed them, and grow them by the thousands that way....bare tanks, no filters, and volumes of water changes,, Discus will be fine under these conditions....however Skittish behavior like you describe may mean stressed out fish.. Sometimes something as simple as lighting or reflections can be the culprit.


hth,
al

[Sean Buehrle]

These are some juvies I have at my house.

They are in 2 tanks 11 each. just a heater a sponge filter and an uptake tube from an emporer 400, no painted sides or bottom.

most people will tell you that this is what discus act like if they are given regular water changes.

ps, I hate vids and pics, they make discus look football shaped, these little suckers are round and dont look anything like in the video. kinda embarrassing.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/seanndenise1/th_996b1a30.jpg (http://s686.photobucket.com/albums/vv225/seanndenise1/?action=view&current=996b1a30.mp4)

[ZX10R]

Sometimes something as simple as lighting or reflections can be the culprit.

hth,
al

I wonder if this might be my problem. I have a 120 sitting near my front door with two windows on each side. And for some unknown reason sometimes I can walk by the tank and they just freak and start hitting the glass and lid. But this only happens once in a while the other 99% of the time you can walk near the tank and they are fine. I have been trying to figure out what is going on because they just do it out of the blue.

[brewmaster15]

I wonder if this might be my problem. I have a 120 sitting near my front door with two windows on each side. And for some unknown reason sometimes I can walk by the tank and they just freak and start hitting the glass and lid. But this only happens once in a while the other 99% of the time you can walk near the tank and they are fine. I have been trying to figure out what is going on because they just do it out of the blue.

Try to pay attention to the lighting and shadows when they freak out...depending on these, they may not see you until you are right on them and then they flip out because a "predator" just appeared out of no-where.:D
-al

[John_Nicholson]

If the bottom of the tanks are not painted or are uncovered by paper the fish may act a little weird because they can't tell where the bottom of the tank is. I bet that if the "breeder" covered the tank it would really help. This seems as obvious to me as dropping your pants before you use the restroom, anything else just doesn't make sense....

-john

[Squidman]

This seems as obvious to me as dropping your pants before you use the restroom-john

I forget that all the time :P

[walt3]

while bb tanks are easier to clean and eliminate the variables for water issues... i would not want to walk down into my basement and see a bare science lab looking box. yuk! i would rather have substrate, plants, driftwood and all and gaze at my little slice of nature. :) it adds so much to the room and i love my nightly maintenance routine. well well woth it. jmho. to each his own... walt.

[eaglesfan3000]

I wonder if this might be my problem. I have a 120 sitting near my front door with two windows on each side. And for some unknown reason sometimes I can walk by the tank and they just freak and start hitting the glass and lid. But this only happens once in a while the other 99% of the time you can walk near the tank and they are fine. I have been trying to figure out what is going on because they just do it out of the blue.

I know that's my problem they hate the tank light. If I turn it off and leave just the room lights on they come out of their hiding corner and swim like nobody's business. They still won't come up to the front and greet me when I feed them. What a bunch on ingrates.

As soon as I get everything in order I'm purchasing a LED moonlight.

[John_Nicholson]

while bb tanks are easier to clean and eliminate the variables for water issues... i would not want to walk down into my basement and see a bare science lab looking box. yuk! i would rather have substrate, plants, driftwood and all and gaze at my little slice of nature. :) it adds so much to the room and i love my nightly maintenance routine. well well woth it. jmho. to each his own... walt.

Are you a fish? If not what does this have to do with an animal that has a brain the size of a pencil eraser? Trying to apply human thought/feelings to an animal is the quickest way to start making mistakes.

-john

[brewmaster15]

Are you a fish? If not what does this have to do with an animal that has a brain the size of a pencil eraser? Trying to apply human thought/feelings to an animal is the quickest way to start making mistakes.

-john John, I think whats he's trying to say is he just prefers the look of a planted tank. He summed it up pretty well , "to each is own":)

-al

[John_Nicholson]

Just trying to educate folks. We both know that if people would look at this from a logical view point instead of an emotional one that will have a lot more success.

-john

[4discus]

discus will adapt to any tank. a bb tank is easier to keep clean, but you still need to clean it. to imply that a scaped tank is packed with poop and uneaten food is just wrong. I have wilds in a biotope and my water is clean. nitrates never above 5. in over 20 months I have never medicated my fish and have the original 8 that I started with. in most cases it's a matter of what you are happy with. if discus must be kept in a bb tank, I would keep different fish because personally I don't want to look at a sterile box no matter how pretty the fish are. as for wilds, I see my fish act more natural swimming thru and under the wood. it's something you will never see in a bb tank. if you want and enjoy a bb tank, thats cool, but they can be just as dirty if you don't do what needs to be done. I probably spend much more time cleaning my tank because it's scaped, but I don't mind. thats the price of having a nicely scaped tank.


agreed--
especially on the maintenance. I have found no shortcuts on time spent. Not only do I have the maintenance but my tank is set up so the plants are removable so I can do a rinse on them so I have to do a kind of mini re-scape each time. IDK everything works well for now and everyone is growing and good.....

[Parrish]

I switched 9 tanks from landscaped Discus tanks to bare bottom tanks in the past several months. I saw no noticible change in overall behavior, except for a lack of successful hatches. I admit that I like the speed and ease of cleaning! I am experimenting with giant driftwood pieces that barely touch the tank bottom, potted plants, floating plants in the bb tanks. The water quality is for them, the decorations are for me.

I still keep a few heavily planted tanks for aesthetics, and have 3 planted RCshrimp/show guppy tanks. I have a partially planted 150g community tank but those fish are tough on even the toughest of plants and the tank height makes planting or readjusting the plants a real chore. Other than that, I find my aquatic gardening habit is very enjoyable.

(as for the lack of successful hatchings... I spend a lot of time reading the archives looking for answers.)

[joeymac]

Agree 100%. If I had to keep my discus in a BB tank, I would not keep discus.


discus will adapt to any tank. a bb tank is easier to keep clean, but you still need to clean it. to imply that a scaped tank is packed with poop and uneaten food is just wrong. I have wilds in a biotope and my water is clean. nitrates never above 5. in over 20 months I have never medicated my fish and have the original 8 that I started with. in most cases it's a matter of what you are happy with. if discus must be kept in a bb tank, I would keep different fish because personally I don't want to look at a sterile box no matter how pretty the fish are. as for wilds, I see my fish act more natural swimming thru and under the wood. it's something you will never see in a bb tank. if you want and enjoy a bb tank, thats cool, but they can be just as dirty if you don't do what needs to be done. I probably spend much more time cleaning my tank because it's scaped, but I don't mind. thats the price of having a nicely scaped tank.


Couldn't have said it better.

[Bud Smith]

I have a BB tank and I use large pieces of driftwood and petrified wood and my discus stay in the mid to upper part of the tank - maybe some day we can have a topic on just BB tanks and how they can be aquascaped just like planted tanks

[Splash156]

Great info everyone!! Just started keeping discus and there in a planted tank with driftwood, they all seem to be very happy and colorful.
But for the ease of cleaning and water balance i'm going bare bottom.. One thing i was wondering is if the back and sides of the tank should
be bare or painted?

Thanks

[Splash156]

This is my 50 gal tank clear on all sides and bottom. Setting the tank up for my Discus fish what would you do to it?
Looks cool how the light comes thru the bottom of the tank but this is not healthy for them?

72202

[nc0gnet0]

Not really, they won't be able to tell were the water stops and the tank bottom starts.

[Splash156]

Any color better then others for a bottom?