Need some help on Metro dosages confused on the amount?

[ZX10R]

I have a fish that is still giving me problems (white/clear feces) so I pulled the fish Monday and started metro + kanamycin together. I noticed Tuesday the fish was breathing hard so I thought maybe just the meds working. Then yesterday when I got home the fish was swimming funny and breathing really hard then I noticed it looked like his tail fin and side fins the tips were burnt back some almost like ammonia burn. I did a 100% water change and put carbon in the filter to help get any last little bit of meds out of the water. This morning he was breathing and swimming better.

Here is my question:

I have seen and been reading a wide range of dosages for Metro 250mg/10 gallons or 500mg/10 gallons. In the sticky for Metro is says high doses is toxic to the fish. But what is considered a high dosage and can it cause the fins to burn.

I have a 30 gallon tank setup that I have been using for years as a QT or hospital tank. I always wash it out after each use with bleach and water. I had the tank running for 3 days before adding the fish. I was doing a 60% WC every day then redosing metro + kanamycin. Metro dosage was 500mg/10 gallons and kanamycin was being dosed at 500mg/20 gallon = 1.5 grams metro / 750mg of kanamycin.

Sorry for the long thread trying to learn and figure out what went wrong.

[TURQ64]

I use, recommend, and will quote several well known 'experts' at 250mg. Yep, it's toxic at higher doses, and my guess is the liver and kidneys are now damaged. Sorry to hear, but drugs are a bearcat to play with...

[jimg]

I have used metro at many doses fighting flagellates and cryptobia. I used it at 250 and had poor results. I use it at 400mg and 88+ deg and have had the best results. I had fish that I would have to treat at that rate every few months for a couple years and when they were finally sent to pathologist there was never a report of any kidney failure.
As for the kanamycin I have never had any results from using that with metro, i have the best results with oxytetracycline.
Keep in mind, this is what has worked for me. I am one to follow the manufacturers directions as they are professionals in labs and I am just a hobbyist that likes experimenting. The med/doses I needed to fight a tougher pathogen may have been needed more than what is required to fight hex (which I have never seen in a discus).
I have heard before people having the same problems as you but with prazi pro. I have dosed metro at 700mg for a couple days and never had fin burn. is it possible that you ammonia went very high without you noticing? I have only used kanamycin a few times, maybe dose was too high combined with metro?

[TURQ64]

Then I guess it isn't toxicty according to Jim, as that's a low dose of Kana...I have better success with it than Oxy, and I was an Oxy freak for 30 years..JMe, obviously take it with a grain of salt. But do a search on how many fish die from OD's..best of luck anyhow.I'm outta here...G'day

[Second Hand Pat]

When treating with high metro dosages during the "Very Suddenly Sick" thread I was treating at 3 grams per 100 liters (~26 gallons) with no burns like you are describing Sean. Believe Jim mentioned that the dosage recommented by Andrew was 8 times the normal dose. Please forgive me Jim if I misquoted you.

[ZX10R]

I was thinking ammonia after I seen the fins looking burned on the ends and he was breathing fast but I was doing a 60% WC daily on a 30 gallon tank with only 1 fish in there.

Jim those metro doses you are giving in mg is that per 10 gallons or 20 gallons?

This site here I have been using says 400-500mg/20 gallons

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html

[ZX10R]

When treating with high metro dosages during the "Very Suddenly Sick" thread I was treating at 3 grams per 100 liters (~26 gallons) with no burns like you are describing Sean. Believe Jim mentioned that the dosage recommented by Andrew was 8 times the normal dose. Please forgive me Jim if I misquoted you.

3 grams for 26 gallons that does seem like a lot. So does anyone know what the level is for metro to become toxic?

[jimg]

per 10 gallons

[ZX10R]

per 10 gallons

I guess I measured it right then I bought a small scale that measures .00 and I used that to weigh out the meds. I will just keep doing 100% WC right now and see how this fish does.

[jimg]

I guess I measured it right then I bought a small scale that measures .00 and I used that to weigh out the meds. I will just keep doing 100% WC right now and see how this fish does.good luck with them. try some fbs or what I don't care to feed, fbw.
imo no need to scale metro, when I say 400mg I am actually using about 370+-per 10 g which is roughly 1/4 tsp per 20gal.

[lipadj46]

yeah most bottles of metro give 1/4 tsp per 20g as the dosage. I don't bother massing it either as the powder is not all sticky and puffy like prazi.

[nc0gnet0]

good luck with them. try some fbs or what I don't care to feed, fbw.
imo no need to scale metro, when I say 400mg I am actually using about 370+-per 10 g which is roughly 1/4 tsp per 20gal.

I have had best results at this dosage as well. 1/2 teaspoon per 40 gallons, a scant 3/4 teaspoon per 55 gallons. maintain temperature at 90 degrees, and if you can get the fish to eat, treatment is much more effective. Kanamycin works well with metro for helping with secondary infections, but your dosage seems quite a bit on the low side, it typically takes twice the amount of kanamycin than it does metro.

Rick

[ZX10R]

Someone really needs to make a sticky with symptoms, med dosages, how to measure out meds, limits on meds, and other treatments. This is so confusing everyone gives med dosages in mg so I bought a scale and I still seem to be doing it wrong.

[jimg]

Someone really needs to make a sticky with symptoms, med dosages, how to measure out meds, limits on meds, and other treatments. This is so confusing everyone gives med dosages in mg so I bought a scale and I still seem to be doing it wrong.

your not doing it wrong. always better to measure. It's just that some meds have such a varying dose that sometimes it just doesn't matter to a point. I know the oxytetracyline, kanamycin and few other have a very wide range of how much to use. I usually take the middle of high or low doses and go from there. many things effect the doses to like water parameters.
Imo why some have such different ideas on med/doses is because sometime the fish don't have what we think and/or their immune systems take care of them and we feel it was the treatment that did the trick.
If I see a fish go off food or get dark and I feel the need to medicate, I will ususally just do the like a light 1/4 tsp of metro per 20 for 3-5 days. If I see they have white feces or more severe symptoms I will treat harder.
I agree it would be easier for a sticky on meds and doses, but I think it's not easy because many don't really know what they exactly have and what doses are needed so we guess on our own experiences.I really don't know if there is enough research done on discus and meds to be sure.

[ZX10R]

Thanks Jim you have been very helpful. I will just do large WC right now and see if he recovers from whatever happened to him after I put him in the hospital tank. Then maybe start meds back afte he is stronger. Before moving him he had white/clear feces and not eating but no clamped fins, no dark color, and no hiding. My other 4 fish that started with these same symptoms got better and are doing fine now after the prazipro and levamisole. This fish wasn't even sick when the other 4 were sick he started with it about the time I stopped treating the others.

[jimg]

Thanks Jim you have been very helpful. I will just do large WC right now and see if he recovers from whatever happened to him after I put him in the hospital tank. Then maybe start meds back afte he is stronger. Before moving him he had white/clear feces and not eating but no clamped fins, no dark color, and no hiding. My other 4 fish that started with these same symptoms got better and are doing fine now after the prazipro and levamisole. This fish wasn't even sick when the other 4 were sick he started with it about the time I stopped treating the others.

clear feces is sometimes an indicator of worms. If the others responded to the levamosile I would do that treatment on this one as well. with many of the worms/flagellates, if one has them they all have them.
It is best to treat for both. Al Johnson used to say when you knock down one parasite the others take the opportunity to expand.

[ZX10R]

clear feces is sometimes an indicator of worms. If the others responded to the levamosile I would do that treatment on this one as well. with many of the worms/flagellates, if one has them they all have them.
It is best to treat for both. Al Johnson used to say when you knock down one parasite the others take the opportunity to expand.

Thanks

[ZX10R]

Yesterday the fish seemed to be swimming around fine now but still breathing a little fast. He wasn't breathing fast in the main tank this started after I moved him. I did another 100% WC yesterday and will keep doing that for now and just watch him.