Sick Old Discus - Blue Turq - now pale/black and sad

[iisfaq]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

I have had this blue Turq Discus for 5 years - I have had quite a few discus (maybe 8) over the years and all surcome to black discus disease and die.

I do not know what I am doing wrong.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Dark, pale, light coloured instead of bright turq blue. Clamped fins. Sits in a corner and never swims around. No sign of fungas, eye not looking good. No visible wounds. This fish has been doing this for 1 year I assume but looking even worse now.

Another orange Discus - going darker by the month.

3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

I have tried Trichozole 400mcg (from the VET)

In New Zealand where I live products to treat fish are non existant. You can not import them, and the pet shops sell crap products like Metafix and that is about it.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

Tank is a Aqua one 880 corner tank - about 350 litres, 3 discus, 2 catfish (5-inch) + 3 small fish + 3 larger fish (can't remember their breed)


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

Normally about 40% per week (sometimes slips to 2 weeks) The tank has been setup for about 18-24 months. Plants + Gravel + Aquotic mix
daltons.co.nz/home-gardening/retail-products/specialty-potting-mixes/aquatic-mix)

Plants growing well

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 30c / 86-88f

- ph _7.6 ( higher than it use to be) - Is this a problem? It us to be PH 7 - 12 months ago.

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 40-60 (use to be 0) so another issue here.

- well water - NO

- municipal water - Yes

I live in Christchurch, New Zealand - we have had **** water with Clorine for 10 months - it ceased about 2 months ago because of Earthquakes - see http_:// CanterburyQuakeLive.co.nz. Normally our water is very good and world quality.

During this time I use Seachem Prime to treat the water changes (during the change)

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

No


SO I am a bit stuffed as to what to do. I want to make life pleasant for my fish and I am willing to pay - but in NZ most products that people mention are not available unless you make an appointment to see a VET.

Any ideas are appreciated. I have tried things like setting up a hospital tank and using Trichozole for months on end.

Basically nothing works.

So is my PH a cause? or just something that "should be bought under control?"

Here are some photos (NO - Stupid forum - not allowed photos)

Blue Turq - bad

http_:// weather.crowe.co.nz/images/fish/P1050121.jpg

Orange Discus - going darker

http_:// weather.crowe.co.nz/images/fish/P1050120.jpg

Orange Disucs #2 -looks fine (so far)

http_:// weather.crowe.co.nz/images/fish/P1050111.jpg

The unknown fish (can't remember its breed) - for its size it is very calm and does not cause trouble.

http_:// weather.crowe.co.nz/images/fish/P1050119.jpg

[TURQ64]

With an old timer, no good med's, and more problems, I'd try a good week of heat treatments....might help, won't hurt..start with good clean water...

[iisfaq]

With an old timer, no good med's, and more problems, I'd try a good week of heat treatments....might help, won't hurt..start with good clean water...

Can you let me know by what you mean by heat treatments? I do not know what that means?

Chris

[Orange Crush]

40% water change every 1 to 2 weeks is not nearly enough for healthy discus in a planted tank with substrate and your really high nitrate level is a testament to that. But sick discus really cannot get better with that little amount of water changes.
I would be doing at least 75% water changes daily, that could make all the difference in the world and possibly resolve the problem.
Clean water can prevent and cure many problems, dirty water will often be the cause many problems with discus.

[iisfaq]

40% water change every 1 to 2 weeks is not nearly enough for healthy discus in a planted tank with substrate and your really high nitrate level is a testament to that. But sick discus really cannot get better with that little amount of water changes.
I would be doing at least 75% water changes daily, that could make all the difference in the world and possibly resolve the problem.
Clean water can prevent and cure many problems, dirty water will often be the cause many problems with discus.

Thanks for the info - not sure how I can do 75% every day - I would be spending more than 1-2 hours per day doing water changes.

Is this to help resolove the issue or a permanant thing?

Do people do this by hand or some sort of automated water changing system? I would assume you would need an automated system to do this.

It is worth me putting all 3 discus into a hospital tank (so I can do a lot more water changes)?

Chris

[Orange Crush]

If you are going to do medicine then I would put the sick fish in a hospital tank and treat them. Either way whatever tank they are in you need to be doing large daily water changes (unless that contradicts with a certain medicine but at least start out with really clean water before you give the first dose if this is the case).
Ideally doing 75% + daily no matter what condition they are in is best because it will usually prevent you from having problems in the first place. But as long as you have any problems with them (sick or dark etc.) I would do the daily wc.
If you have no problems with them and you do not want to do daily wc that is your choice but keep an eye on them and as soon as something seems "off" do a large wc. Discus are very sensitive to water quality. The easiest and best way to care for them is wc, wc, wc.
I myself use a "python" to do my daily 90% wc but you can also age water for 24 hrs (if your pH changes in the tank much from what it is from the tap - discus like consistantcy in pH, temp etc.) in rain barrels or something similar and then use a submersable pump to take water out of tank and put water into it. hth. :)

[Orange Crush]

I would be spending more than 1-2 hours per day doing water changes.Chris
It takes me about an hour but since I use a python most of that time is "hands off" so I sit by the tank to keep an eye on it but I will spend that time talking on the phone, checking emails or whatever so I still get other stuff done.


It is worth me putting all 3 discus into a hospital tank (so I can do a lot more water changes)?
Chris
If that is what it takes to be able to do the water changes that are needed then I would put them in a hospital tank with "seeded" filter media.

[shoveltrash]

IMHO definitely up your water changing & see if that helps.

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, so you love your fish and want to do your best for them, so now it's time to just look at your nitrate numbers, suck it up and start doing large wc's. It's for their good, and yep, it's a horrible pain in the neck to have to change water every single day.

If it was me, I'd start with doing a 50% wc today, and then do another one tomorrow. Then on the third day I'd do an 80% change, followed by 70-80% every day after that for the rest of the week. The reason I'd start smaller is because your pH in the tank won't match the pH from your tap water at this point and you don't want to shock the fish with a huge pH change.

Others may disagree with me on that point, but this is how I'd do it if it was me.

Do you use a Python hose for water changes? It makes it a lot easier, and while you're draining and then refilling, the tank you can watch tv, read a book, etc. I just set a timer on my microwave to beep at me after 20 minutes so that I don't drain the tank too far, or overfill it (during the fill cycle).

I also wouldn't medicate the discus at this point in time. Do the large daily water changes for at least 2 weeks and then reassess the condition of the fish before trying to medicate them. They need time in clean water without all the nitrates before their immune systems will be strong enough to handle more meds.

Oh and that other fish in the tank is a Red Line Torpedo Barb, also known as a Denison Barb. He can't handle high temps, so don't raise your tank temps. If you DO need to use heat treatment for the discus, pull them out and put them in your hospital tank before you raise their temps.

Hope this helps you out. Oh and I hope I didn't sound harsh...that wasn't my intent at all, I'm just being practical.

[TURQ64]

Can you let me know by what you mean by heat treatments? I do not know what that means?

Chris
Heat treatments are a fairly old, established method for dealing with many types of internal issues..Do a search here, loads of info. You need a good heater or two to bring the temp up to the mid to high nineties...at least a week's worth