feeding and nitrate levels

[karen61]

I accidently got into keeping discus last year, and I'm on the verge of giving up, I adore my two but worry all the time that I don't know what I'm doing, all the advice contradicts the previous advice I've been given. Now I have a serious problem, one of my discus has white spots in his eyes, I know this is due to water quality so I did a 50% water change and put carbon in the internal box filter that contains the floss, cleaned the filter but my nitrate level is at 40 ppm, no ammonia no nitrite. Using 75% RO 25% tap water (tap water 8.0ph now 7.0 using RO) . Feeding twice daily both fish appear to be hungry all the time and the smaller is getting the majority of it, The larger one even bullied the corys for one of their pellets tonight. On top of all of this the larger discus bullies the younger one 24/7. I was told the stress of this is what's caused the younger one to have black spots all over the top half of his body., Some else said thats normal if he is a pidgeon blood I don't know if he is. I just want my fish to be healthy and happy. I have seen that many of you do water changes daily surely this is stressful.

[Orange Crush]

I have seen that many of you do water changes daily surely this is stressful.
It may be a tiny bit stressful but unless you do something really wrong during a water change it is not going to kill your discus. However, not doing regular (preferably daily) water changes is stressful (from poor water quality) to your discus and will eventually cause illness and death.
If your nitrate level is 40 ppm you are not doing nearly enough water changes. That level should stay less than 5 ppm. hth

[karen61]

So should I go over to RO completely as my tap water is 40ppm and add minerals. Still worried about feeding as I said they seem so hungry all the time and again still fighting smaller discus hiding again

[Orange Crush]

Nitrate levels have to do with not doing enough water changes.
Discus want consistant water perameters (pH, KH, GH, temp etc.)
What are the other water perameters of your tap vs. RO?
Are you saying that your tap water or the water in your tank has 40ppm of nitrAtes?

[tonytheboss1]

What size tank & how many fish total?? I'm no expert but 40ppm is on the high side for regular SA's & very bad for Discus. Larger & more frequent W/C's are gonna be necessary. How much & how often will depend on your total volume of water vs number of inhabitants.
Some of that 'stress' aggression can possibly be attributed to the fact that their are only two discus. They are generally more comfortable & social in larger numbers (5 or more). "T"

[Orange Crush]

40ppm is on the high side for regular SA's & very bad for Discus.
Over 20 is on the high side for almost any fish, over 5 is on the high side for discus and other cichlids, invertibrates etc.


Larger & more frequent W/C's are gonna be necessary. How much & how often will depend on your total volume of water vs number of inhabitants.
It is a little more complex than that. It depends on many things but doing large daily water changes is a safe bet.

[karen61]

My tank is 125 litres
2 Discus
4 Glow light tetra
3 Peppered corys
gravel and sand substrate
A few plants - not growing dying I think
Filter is a cristal profi 900
a small internal filter with wool inside for fine filtration
Tap water is ph8 nitrate 40ppm
feeding twice daily with tetra prima food for discus, occaisional live brine shrimp,Frozen blood worm not on a regular basis (don't use live blood worm any more, advised not to )

[karen61]

sorry missed temp its 27 don't do other tests except ammonia and nitrite those are 0. local fish shop said not to do daily water changes

[zimmjeff]

the local fish store is wrong. discus like clean water and lots of it. the eye problem should get better with improved water conditions.

[karen61]

ro water I presume

[zimmjeff]

does not have to be alot of people use tap. As long as it is stable conditions.

[karen61]

tap water contains 40ppm nitrate and ph 8

[Jeapa]

tap water contains 40ppm nitrate and ph 8

My well water also has about 40ppm of nitrate so I use 100% RO which I add back the minerals with Seachem's Replenish. I wouldn't add any of your tap water back to the RO if it has nitrates. This works great as it is easy to keep the water parameters consistent. I do daily 50-75% water changes and I do believe it makes a huge difference in the health of my discus.

Good Luck with yours.

[zimmjeff]

yes if you have nitrates in your water then use ro like jeapa suggested.

[karen61]

thanks every one for all your help. Just been reading while waiting for replies my fish have had a bad start apparently they are stunted too, hope with your help I can give them a better life. I will try my best

[JenTN]

My lfs told me to do weekly water changes. I got 2 of my juvies from them about 7-8 weeks ago. I went there last week and they had 2 left out of the group I got mine from (they are stendkers, so good stock). Mine are probably almost twice the size of theirs now and theirs really dont appear to have grown at all. My lfs is great and knowledgeable, but discus are a whole different ballgame.

[karen61]

what do you feed your discus and how often, how many should I keep in a 33 gallon tank I have 3 corys 4 glowlight and 2 discus bullying is a problem

[Orange Crush]

Discus need 10 gal each and should be kept in groups of 6 or more. You need a bigger tank preferably one that is at least 3 feet in length so they have room to stretch their legs sort of speak. 75 gal have a great footprint and you can have 6 discus plus 15 gal left over for cories and glow light tetras.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Karen,

You haven't mentioned the size of your discus yet. How big are they?

The reason I ask is because, if you can commit to purchasing a larger tank for them in the next few months, and if they are small enough now, you could easily add another 4 discus to the 30g tank while you are prepping the larger tank. You'd need to move them to the larger tank once they hit about 4 inches.

A 75g tank would be perfect for 6 adult discus!

If you're never planning to buy a larger tank then 2 adult discus is all you'll ever be able to manage in your 30g, and that will cause fighting, but it isn't totally hopeless, it's just not as much fun.

So those are some things to think about for the future.

For right now, you just need solid, reliable advice on caring for the fish you have, right?

1) Discus need a daily water change if you are keeping them in a small tank.

2) Definitely use straight RO and add Discus Trace elements to the RO during the water change.

3) WC's aren't stressful to the discus once they get used to the daily routine. Mine love it and check out my hands for food, nudge me as I'm cleaning and hang out right under the siphon as the water is flowing back into the tank.

4) Feedings are important. If your discus aren't adult size yet, buy a variety of hearty foods for them. They like frozen beefheart cubes, any type of Discus Flake food, freeze dried blackworms, Discus pellet food, etc.

5) Definitely stay away from live foods and/or any food that is considered to be more of a filler/fiber type food. You can still feed fiber rich foods, but more like once or twice a week instead of daily.

6) Since discus like to graze off the bottom of the tank, feed several times a day in small amounts. They should be able to pick all of the food off the bottom within 20 minutes or so.

and that brings us to -

7) The Substrate! If your plants aren't doing well, try moving them to a rubbermaid tub where you can care for them, fertilize them, etc and try to get them healthy without doing it directly in the discus tank.

8) Once the plants are out, if you really want to keep the gravel substrate, vacuum it well every single day so that it doesn't accumulate wastes.

9) To add some decor to the tank, consider buying a piece of driftwood. It's much easier to clean around it daily, and then to lift it out once a week for a thorough cleaning of both the driftwood and the area under it in the tank.


I think that's it for now. It's a list of the basics of discus keeping. If I forgot something be sure to ask, ok? =)

[karen61]

Thank you so much for all this info, here goes my tank size is 3 ft x1 ft x 1 ft 10. Today I've up'd the feeding regime but was told all they could eat in 5 mins, normally I feed twice a day with just discus food and blood worm once a week, today 2 lots of bloodworm and 2 lots of the granuals. What is fibre food? Sorry but could you also tell me what a rubber maid is. The blue discus is 4 -4.5 inches, the white one about 3 inches, he's grown quite a bit since I got him. The blue one is the one thats sick he has white spots in his eyes.
Today I removed the rocks from the tank OMG should of seen the debris totally ashamed of myself, must admit I'm frightened to do water changes as they hate it both go into hiding, they dart off every time I go near afterwards and blue goes black. hate the the thought of upsetting him, but don't want either of them to suffer. Wish I could hand them over to one of you (especially when I saw how much you have to pay for one). One more question what dimensions should a tank be for lets say 4 -6 discus, sorry I lied how can I stop the constant attacks, should I seperate them with a glass partition or some thing.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi again,

The five minute rule applies to most fish, but discus are notorious for being slow eaters. They like to nose around the bottom and eat at a leisurely pace, so I stick to the 20 minutes rule.

Since you have one that is about 3 inches you'll probably want to feed them 4-5 times a day. Start with small amounts each time and watch to see how long they take to eat it. Pretty soon you'll have a good idea of what foods they like best, how much they'll eat in 20 minutes, etc.

No need to worry about a little leftover food on the bottom for the first few days of experimenting with the feedings since you'll also be doing that large water change each day.

I was pretty shocked at how much dirt collected in my decor too! It was downright embarrassing. Much much easier to go with just driftwood for decor.

Rubbermaid - ahhhhhhh. It's a company who makes plastic tubs in the US. They've become so popular that we tend to call all tubs Rubbermaids. Sort of like calling all facial tissues Kleenex. LOL

All you need is a tub large enough to hold all your plants. Stuff it in a well lighted area, or use a spare lamp to augment the natural light. Change the water in it every few weeks and fertilize them gently once a week. So long as they aren't exotic type aquatic plants they should recover and start growing a bit for you. They can stay in that tub for a VERY long time. I had swords and anubias in a tub for over 6 months while my tank was barebottom and it didn't hurt the plants at all.

Water changes will be frightening to your discus for awhile. They are creatures of habit though, so if you do a change every single day they'll quickly come to expect it and will stop hiding.

Dimensions for a 75g tank...hmmm. You can be flexible with the dimensions in order to fit it into a good space in your house, but the basic size is about 48"x18x22 I think. They also make them shorter and deeper.

And last question: Don't worry too much about the fighting for now. Discus are cichlids and they love to peck at each other. It's totally natural behavior. Yours will just have more discus to choose from once you get a bigger tank and add more victims! LOL

For now, just keep working on the feeding routine and work out the large water changes. Trust me, your discus will soon learn to love all that fresh water every day.

[acsuth]

I didn't read all the replies carefully, so you have likely already been advised that decaying plant matter can increase the nitrates. Good luck with them, I am learning a lot too.

[karen61]

thank you every one will update with any new information, can't thank you all enough,
Strawberry blonde you've been amazing.