Ideal LED setup for a wilds tank

[DiscusBR]

Hi folks,

I have a 80g tank with 7 wild Cuipeua discus, shown in other threads. Here is a pic of the tank:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee482/DiscusBR/Nov2011/DSC01262.jpg

As you can see, the tank is lightly planted with few "hardy" plants, especially Anubias. I would like to ask your help with lighting. The tank has an Aquaticlife fixture with a single 54w T5 HO 6,000K lamp. It turns out that a single T5 lamp is too much for my wilds, who tend to hide when lights are on and come out when lights are off. I tried floating plants, but frozen dried blackworms were getting stuck in the plants and I gave up on them. I am considering a getting a LED setup, but I have no experience with LEDs. What would be an ideal low-light LED setup that would still allow me to keep the plants? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Chillinfish]

For my old wilds, I used the Marineland double bright LED system. They where all very peaceful with the lighting more in the whiter color rather than a gold/sunlight you find in the natural blackwater areas of wilds. As far as keeping plants, I don't know how it would perform. They claim to be reef ready as far as keeping photosynthetic animals...

Andrew

[joanstone]

Marineland has singe bright, double bright and reef capable LEDs. I've wondered about how well they work lighting up big, deep tanks, I was considering them as an option on my 220. I have a small one on one of my smaller tanks. I've liked it, but half of the blue lights stopped working suddenly so I'm a bit disappointed.

[CajunAg]

Mauro, this might be a good place to start: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/160396-led-lighting-compendium.html

[Niblet]

Love the background! Is it some sort of slimline that fits inside the aquarium? Beautiful set-up!

[DiscusBR]

Chillinfish and Joanstone: Thank you for comments and feedback. CajunAg: Thanks for the link to the article, which I will read with great interest. I will digest all this information and try to decide what to do.


Love the background! Is it some sort of slimline that fits inside the aquarium? Beautiful set-up!

Thanks. The background is Aquaterra´s Slimline Mesa Rockwall.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, if you have a piece of glass between the light and top of the tank you could use window screen to filter some of the light which will darken the tank some. The more layers of window screen the more it will darken the tank.

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, if you have a piece of glass between the light and top of the tank you could use window screen to filter some of the light which will darken the tank some. The more layers of window screen the more it will darken the tank.

Thanks for the suggestion, Pat. That is another possibility. I have a glass top in the tank, which looks nice. My only concern is that is that a screen over the tank would not look good. It is pleasant to the eye to see glass on top of the tank and I fear that a screen would spoil that.

[Discus-n00b]

I use a homemade DIY LED fixture for mine. Honestly, haven't seen much plant growth when I put them in there but I think thats more from water movement and festivum snacking on them then light. Honestly not sure how it would perform with plants down lower. If I was rebuilding my fixture I would go with more cool whites then warm whites. Warm whites give a great biotype look, but I've found that I would rather see the fish and its colors more (like your tank above) then have the tank water look brown. Click the link in my sig and you can see more on mine.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/100gal3.jpg

[sayitfast]

I like these... they're supposed to have an option this month for lights that are more Freshwater focused.

http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/led-light-fixture/24-panorama-pro-led-fixture.html

[DiscusBR]

I use a homemade DIY LED fixture for mine. Honestly, haven't seen much plant growth when I put them in there but I think thats more from water movement and festivum snacking on them then light. Honestly not sure how it would perform with plants down lower. If I was rebuilding my fixture I would go with more cool whites then warm whites. Warm whites give a great biotype look, but I've found that I would rather see the fish and its colors more (like your tank above) then have the tank water look brown. Click the link in my sig and you can see more on mine.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/100gal3.jpg

Thanks, Matt. I know your terrific tank and have always been impresed by your technical skills. Your comparison of cool x warm whites is very useful. But how many LED lights do you think would be sufficient for a 80g tank? Looking back, do you think your setup needed less or more lights?


I like these... they're supposed to have an option this month for lights that are more Freshwater focused.

http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/led-light-fixture/24-panorama-pro-led-fixture.html

Thanks, that sounds like a very versitile system. Unfortunately, it is quite expensive ($500), although I am not familiar with the cost of LED fixtures.

[Discus-n00b]

I think the number of lights was fine, especially If I changed the color temperature of them (warm white to cool white). Either way, I had enough room on my heatsink to be able to expand if needed, so undershooting was better then overshooting for number of lights. They won't be packed tight like they would in a SW setup, unless of course its something like a fully planted tank.

[DiscusBR]

Hi Matt and everyone, please advise me. I found a guy who manufactures LED aquarium fixtures here in Rio. I am considering options for my 80g tank. He suggests putting eight 6000K cool white lights and four blue lights (for the moon effect) in the fixture (white and blue lights will work independently). Since I want a low light tank -- but with sufficient light for my Anubias -- would that be a good setup? Would 4 cool white lights work or do I need 8?

Thanks in advance.

[Discus-n00b]

Sorry these are bad pictures, and crappy looking tank right now lol but this first one is with 4 cool white LEDs.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/coolwhites1.jpg

This is with 6 warm white LEDs
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/warmwhites1.jpg

Just to give you an idea of looks. The cool whites are more blue, the warm whites and more yellow. 8 would give pretty good light as seen by my 6 picture above. I run all 10 at once. In terms of plants it might classify as low light, but believe me its pretty darn bright. I have NO idea about growing plants, so I can't advise on that at all. To me, 4 cool whites alone is to blue and to dim (not sure it would support plants). I tend to like a 50/50 mix of warm and cool whites. To me, blue moonlights are a gimmick. Moonlight is actually white, and dimmed cool whites would serve as a more natural moonlight. Blue works, just to disney cartoon looking to me lol...personal preference.

I would really speak to someone who knows about growing plants with LEDs.

[Second Hand Pat]

For the moon effect on freshwater I think the dimmed cool whites would work best. The blue work great for reef tanks. Now Mauro this is what I would do if it was me BUT NO personal experience with this. I like Matt's second picture a lot better then the first...again MHO only. :)
Pat

[DiscusBR]

What a great community this is. Always great and generous feedback.


Sorry these are bad pictures, and crappy looking tank right now lol but this first one is with 4 cool white LEDs.

This is with 6 warm white LEDs

Just to give you an idea of looks. The cool whites are more blue, the warm whites and more yellow. 8 would give pretty good light as seen by my 6 picture above. I run all 10 at once. In terms of plants it might classify as low light, but believe me its pretty darn bright. I have NO idea about growing plants, so I can't advise on that at all. To me, 4 cool whites alone is to blue and to dim (not sure it would support plants). I tend to like a 50/50 mix of warm and cool whites. To me, blue moonlights are a gimmick. Moonlight is actually white, and dimmed cool whites would serve as a more natural moonlight. Blue works, just to disney cartoon looking to me lol...personal preference.

I would really speak to someone who knows about growing plants with LEDs.

Thank you for posting the pics and your comments, Matt. Very detailed and helpful information. I will try to mix cool and warm lights, as you suggest. I will also try dimmed cool whites instead of blue lights for the moonlight effect.


For the moon effect on freshwater I think the dimmed cool whites would work best. The blue work great for reef tanks. Now Mauro this is what I would do if it was me BUT NO personal experience with this. I like Matt's second picture a lot better then the first...again MHO only. :)
Pat

Thanks, Pat. I am giving up the blue monlight. The problem with the second setup is that, according to what I have read, warm LED lights are not appropriate for plants. So a mix of warm and cool lights might be the way to go.

If someone can give some feedback about LED lights and low-light plants like Anubias, that would be great.

[Darrell Ward]

Honestly, one 70 watt, 6500K MH, hung about a foot above the tank, would give the same effect for slightly more than $100 with bulb. It would also easily grow low light plants.

[DiscusBR]

Honestly, one 70 watt, 6500K MH, hung about a foot above the tank, would give the same effect for slightly more than $100 with bulb. It would also easily grow low light plants.

Most likely you are right. But LEDs consume less electricity and last much longer. They also give a shimmer effect that regular lamps don't give.

[Discus-n00b]

Thats the thing that got me with my MH when I had a reef. The bulb prices are insane. LEDs are more expensive front end but will save more in the long run. Can't deny the MH has the looks, grow power, and shimmer though...because it does. MH lights also get HOT, i'd be willing to put my tongue on my heatsink for my LEDs any day of the week....after running them for 12 hours.

[Darrell Ward]

It's true that the big wattage, reef bulbs get hot. The 70 watt bulbs are tiny, and I find they get no hotter than CF lamps I've used in the past. The cost of the bulbs depend on where you get them. These $20 bulbs work as well as my $69.95 bulbs....http://www.lightexports.com/servlet/the-7854/70-watt-hqi-bulb%2C/Detail I ain't sticking my tounge to any electrical device! LOL!
Of course you guys can believe what you want, but I'm telling you for the money, you won't find ANY better lower wattage lighting than 70 watt MH. I've tried them ALL, and have a workshop full of fixtures to prove it.

[Discus-n00b]

I'll take your word for it Darrell, as I have only used 100w and above.....my main arguments against it were bulb prices and heat. My tanks are not in a separate fish room, so any heat is an issue for me, the less the better. Though I am sold on LEDs currently....but like I said...not sure about LED grow power, just that they solved my heat problem while giving me the same visual appearance of a MH and bulbs that last 2, 3, 4, etc times longer. If I had another reef tank, MH would be very much in the mix for lighting.

[Dubiadiscus]

discusBR I had a though about how you can dim the lighting down a bit. Instead of using screen to dim the light you could always use window tinting like they do for cars as well as your house hold window. That way you could make your glass top as light or as dark as you needed.

Just a thought. :) And by the way you have a beautiful setup I love it alot!

[DiscusBR]

discusBR I had a though about how you can dim the lighting down a bit. Instead of using screen to dim the light you could always use window tinting like they do for cars as well as your house hold window. That way you could make your glass top as light or as dark as you needed.

Just a thought. :)

That sounds like a great idea! I think I will try it. I will post pics when I make the changes.


And by the way you have a beautiful setup I love it alot!

Thanks!

[Second Hand Pat]

discusBR I had a though about how you can dim the lighting down a bit. Instead of using screen to dim the light you could always use window tinting like they do for cars as well as your house hold window. That way you could make your glass top as light or as dark as you needed.

Just a thought. :) And by the way you have a beautiful setup I love it alot!

Layers of window screening will do the same thing and it is not permanent. You can add or remove layers as needed.

[DiscusBR]

Layers of window screening will do the same thing and it is not permanent. You can add or remove layers as needed.

Thanks, Pat. As I said before, my only concern is that is that a screen over the tank would not look good. It is pleasant to the eye to see glass on top of the tank and I fear that a screen would spoil that. Window tinting, like the ones used in cars, would make the glass darker without adding any material on the top of the glass cover, which is visible in the case of my tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, would you be tinting the glass top, or the lens on the light fixture. For me the window screen is a temporary thing until the fish are use to the brighter light. So for me it is an adjustment tool. Sorry to repeat.

[Discus-n00b]

The window tint isn't permanent either, its the roll kind of stuff from walmart, I use it on my 100gal as a background.

[Dubiadiscus]

Second Hand Pat, The window tint wouldn't be permanent even if you where to have it glued to the glass. You can still remove it by using a razor blade and some water its only glue. I myself have done it in the past to car window. The idea of a screen would work but I have to agree with DiscusBr. You could even tint the light fixture lens with it. If it is glass you could get a new piece of glass tint the new one and keep the original lens clear and after time you could always install the original light lens and just have a spare one that is tinted.
Just a thought.

[Second Hand Pat]

Will the window tint adhere to acrylic? Many fixtures have acrylic shields to protect the lamps.

[Dubiadiscus]

It should adhere to the acrylic with out any problem. IF for some reason it wont work with the acrylic you could alway get a peice of glass cut to the same size as the acrylic and tint that instead.

[discuspaul]

Mauro, you've just received a whole lot of the very best info you're going to get, and it's just up to you to decide what you're going to do, to achieve what you want.
All I have to say is that the original pic of your tank looked absolutely superb to me - too bad your discus seem to feel it's too bright for them ! lol
Always nice to see/read your posts.

[DiscusBR]

Thank you, folks. When I get some extra time I will try the window tint, possibly in the acrylic lens of my lighting fixture.


Mauro, you've just received a whole lot of the very best info you're going to get, and it's just up to you to decide what you're going to do, to achieve what you want.
All I have to say is that the original pic of your tank looked absolutely superb to me - too bad your discus seem to feel it's too bright for them ! lol
Always nice to see/read your posts.

Hi Paul, nice to know that you like my tank's latest setup. The lighting of the single T5HO 54w lamp looks fine to me, but it seems too much for my wilds. They come out more frequently and become much more active when the lights are off. I just hope I can make them more comfortable.