Would this be fish abuse?

[Swancici]

Not my tank...my parents.
-30 guppies
-6 mollys
-10 Cory cat fish
-2 clow loches
- one common Pleco and the other idk
-100 neon tetras and a 2 inch tetra idk the name of
- and about maybe 10-20 other fish I don't know the name of
- 2 discus
all in a 70-90 gallon with a filter rated for 90-120.
They had 8 discus but the died in 3 weeks. Also the have about 3 inch thick of gravel and the clean it maybe every three months. They do water changed maybe once a month not sure.
I feel sorry for the two discus Becuse there always hiding and are always really dark and shy. I don't know if there going to live that along. :(
Ph is above 7.0 and idk the rest.
They no nothing about fish keeping and keep getting more fish.
I have learned alot by the Internet and people but they don't want to listen to me they think there ok Becuse the tank looks empty. Idk what to do I know there just fish but they don't deserve that. Any help?

[Maria Ashton]

Way too many fish even on a good day, would have to be doing water changes daily to maintain a semi decent water quality. Also that many fish just stress each other out.

[Ike]

Yikes! The 100 Neons alone more than max that tank's capacity... Mother's day and Father's day is coming up soon, maybe find them a 29g to keep the discus in by themselves :/

Tell them the 1" of fish per gallon as a general rule.

Good luck!

[Orange Crush]

Sadly many people raise fish like this. They probably think of fish as objects rather than living creatures that can suffer and if this is the case then they will not care how the fish are taken care of but, you could try teaching them that fish do feel.
However, your best bet is to find out why they do things the way they do; without making them feel judged since that will only make them defensive and you will get nowhere. Is it laziness? do not know where to get good info? (often parents will not take advice from children regardless of how good it is, they may need to hear it from someone/somewhere else).
Whenever dealing with people who are doing things wrong you have to be careful how you deal with it because if you say something that makes them feel bad/stupid/guilty they shut down. Try approaching it by asking if there is anything they need help with, volunteer to do the cleaning yourself. If you can offer them solutions to their problems they will be more receptive.
You could recommend a "change of scenery" for the tank. Show them pictures of tanks with thin layers of sand (less than 1/2" to prevent toxic gases from building up) instead of 3" of waste trapping gravel.

[tonytheboss1]

Try approaching it by asking if there is anything they need help with, volunteer to do the cleaning yourself. If you can offer them solutions to their problems they will be more receptive.

:bandana: ++1
Showing them by helping w/ the maintainance might prove to be fruitful. Along the way drop little hints how things could be better if........ Make it more their idea to change rather than your request or demand. Go slow but steady. Have patience. Hopefully it'll get a bit better. "T"

[Swancici]

I wish I could help. But 1 I work alot 2 have a kid 3 they work alot and never home till 1 am. I would only have time to do maintenance on mine. But they have found a breeder called canaidian aqua farm I think it one of simply discus sponsor and they plan on getting more discus.... I'm pretty sure there tank size is 70 gallon and I have talked to them about 10 gallon per discus and how I think what there doing is animal abuse.. They said there just fish and they die the die. Then I asked them to at lest get rid of the guppies and mollys as they pick on the discus. They thought I ment killing them and I said no I mean look for people who want them or take them back to our local pet store... There excuse was the pet store won't take them and they really don't have time. So I tried my best and I so wish they weren't going to get any discus. But thanks for your help:) really appreciated it.

[Orange Crush]

They said there just fish and they die the die......They thought I ment killing them and I said no I mean look for people who want them or take them back to our local pet store....
Like I said some people see fish as objects rather than living creatures that can suffer and then they will not care how the fish are taken care of.

I'm sorry things cannot be changed in this situation right now. Maybe over time if you can drop little factoids that are proof of them being living beings that suffer, or find some way to create empathy in them for the fish, things can be turned around but, if not just know that you tried and that is all you can do. :(

[Swancici]

Yea true but sad( at fish being objects) I think there very pretty I used to have African cichlids there my fav fish but 3 weeks ago they died( had them for 6 months). I went on a trip and the person I left them with must ofunplugged the heater when I went home all where dead and the temp way below 60f and no one called to tell me they were dead. they looked to be dead for at least a couple of days. I was going on my trip to get them a new 120gal aquarium. Well at least I only payed 150 so good deal. Now I want to try discus.

[John_Nicholson]

Oh..hell they are fish...not some highly evolved intelligent creature. They have brains the size of a pencil eraser. All they care about is eating, staying alive, and reproducing. We find them appealing because they have instincts that we think are cool. Now do I think the tank is over stocked ...Yes. Could the overall health of the tank be improved though better care....Yes again, but lets not act like they are out bashing babies in the head.....

-john

[tonytheboss1]

:argue: ++1 lol, lol I hear ya -john "T"

[Melissa]

Aw John, I'm gonna hug my fishies a little tighter tonight, I can't believe you feel that way!! *sob* LOL!!! (kidding btw, in case you couldn't hear the tone in what I was typin ;) ) hahaha

But really- no matter how stupid something is, it sucks to see them suffer eh?

But oh well, to the OP- let your parents waste their money stocking their tank with discus that will all eventually whither and die. Just don't look at the tank my friend. Kind of like when you go into a LFS.... Just look straight ahead don't even glance at the tanks. Grab your supplies and get outta there! You can't save every fish in need.

[Orange Crush]

Oh..hell they are fish...not some highly evolved intelligent creature. They have brains the size of a pencil eraser. All they care about is eating, staying alive, and reproducing. We find them appealing because they have instincts that we think are cool. Now do I think the tank is over stocked ...Yes. Could the overall health of the tank be improved though better care....Yes again, but lets not act like they are out bashing babies in the head.....

-john
I dont think anyone ever said they were highly evolved intellegent creatures or that how they were treating them was the same as bashing babies in the head.
I do think that they can suffer though.
Humans used to believe that animals could not suffer or had any intellegence and we were proven wrong. I doubt that it will ever be proven that fish are like that but we should still treat them like that is a possibility because it is the right thing to do. If not maybe we could stop humanly euthanizing them and throw the dying ones in the garbage can rather than using clove oil. It would be cheaper. :p

[John_Nicholson]

I cull mine using my dachshunds....

-john

[Ike]

Hah!! I bet they catch them in the air and gone in 1 bite. Quick death and dog food, killing two birds with one stone. Aren't the spines dangerous to get caught in their throats?

I know i read somewhere where some guy won an Darwin award for trying to win a bet by swallowing a small live perch and it got caught in the guy's throat because of it's spines and the guy choked to death....

[Swancici]

Your right with that. They may not be highly intelligent But it still sad to see them suffer no matter what. But That's me and I like fish no matter what there intelligent is.

[peglegderek]

I wish I could help. But 1 I work alot 2 have a kid 3 they work alot and never home till 1 am. I would only have time to do maintenance on mine. But they have found a breeder called canaidian aqua farm I think it one of simply discus sponsor and they plan on getting more discus.... I'm pretty sure there tank size is 70 gallon and I have talked to them about 10 gallon per discus and how I think what there doing is animal abuse.. They said there just fish and they die the die. Then I asked them to at lest get rid of the guppies and mollys as they pick on the discus. They thought I ment killing them and I said no I mean look for people who want them or take them back to our local pet store... There excuse was the pet store won't take them and they really don't have time. So I tried my best and I so wish they weren't going to get any discus. But thanks for your help:) really appreciated it.


if they get more discus they are gonna kill em! what Discus breader are they going through? im gonna buy some of thier Wall street stock!!!

[Orange Crush]

if they get more discus they are gonna kill em! what Discus breader are they going through? im gonna buy some of thier Wall street stock!!!
http://stores.canadianaquafarm.com/StoreFront.bok

[wendy9722]

Man that is like having 10 kids, 75 dogs, 50 cats in a cluttered trailer (single wide) that stinks like he((!!!!!
That is more than fish abuse in my eyes!!!!!

Sorry that is my opinion.....

[Skip]

Humans used to believe that animals could not suffer or had any intellegence and we were proven wrong. I doubt that it will ever be proven that fish are like that but we should still treat them like that is a possibility because it is the right thing to do. If not maybe we could stop humanly euthanizing them and throw the dying ones in the garbage can rather than using clove oil. It would be cheaper. :p

i put mine in the garbage disposal :)

[JenTN]

I cull mine using my dachshunds....

-john

Cat here :-p

[JenTN]

Please dont report me to PETA! This is my son...(pssst, don't tell the discus, or God forbid his bn CATFISH!)

[John_Nicholson]

Great picture!

And nothing is more natural than one animal eating another.

-john

[JenTN]

Great picture!

And nothing is more natural than one animal eating another.

-john

Thanks! Almost broke his rod, and in the picture before that he looks scared to death lol! He was only 5.

I agree about it being natural. I send them with my sister for her cat, mine is too spoiled/lazy to eat fish. He will only eat cat food.

[Corona]

Please dont report me to PETA! This is my son...(pssst, don't tell the discus, or God forbid his bn CATFISH!)

Lol!

[tonytheboss1]

Originally Posted by Orange Crush

Humans used to believe that animals could not suffer or had any intellegence and we were proven wrong. I doubt that it will ever be proven that fish are like that but we should still treat them like that is a possibility because it is the right thing to do. If not maybe we could stop humanly euthanizing them and throw the dying ones in the garbage can rather than using clove oil. It would be cheaper.
i put mine in the garbage disposal

:bandana: I toss the little ones in the tank for the big ones to snack. Usually quick & painless. The 'O' likes to chase but the 'knife' likes to lie & wait. "T"

[Chris b 1986]

I would do a midnight and try and rescue the discus out lol seriously way overstocked I feel for ya some people never want to listen

[Swancici]

Well they only have one more discus.... The other died I think of starving as it look very thin. The other looks ok but a bit thin. But they only find them once And two pinches of food for over a 100 fish so they all look thin especially the zebra danios one looks like a stick is that normal? Well there not getting anymore fish until the guppies, mollys die. Poor fishes.

[Swancici]

Feed not find

[Orange Crush]

Well, you could at least sneak some food into the tank every once in a while so the fish are not starving.

[Swancici]

I do when I go there maybe onnce a week

[Darrell Ward]

No offense, but your parents are incredibly ignorant fishkeepers. There are thousands like them out there however, and have been as long as I can remember, and I'm an old fart.

[Swancici]

Yea it sucks but I'm glad they listen to me no more fish. now there stocking it with decorations. tank is 48inch long with 3 inch high of gravel and basically the decorations go from one end to the next, like how you would decorate a cichlids tank but alot more. There thank is a 75 gallon but holding maybe 45-55 gallons of water with 100fish and one discus. Poor discus I think it stunted they had it for 3-4 months still the same size when they got it 3.5inch. Also eats once a day maybe even once every second day. There fish look really thin expcialy there danios. I wish the discus was bigger so he can eat the neon tetras. Well all I got to say is thanks simplydiscus as I learned alot still learning.

[Swancici]

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/watch?v=HlZpbk4onOY

Here is a video of there discus. Sorry baby crying in the background.