Red Melon discus.

[seanyuki]

red melon is it was originally derived from pb crossed with red brown to make the marlbro red.........Red melon, super melon or mandarin passion..they all have pigeon gene..........perhaps I am wrong.



http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?94493-Please-rate-my-red-melon-%28female%29&p=873956#post873956

[Skip]

red melon is it was originally derived from pb crossed with red brown to make the marlbro red.........Red melon, super melon or mandarin passion..they all have pigeon gene..........perhaps I am wrong.


it is more of a GENOTYPE issue then PHENOTYPE

[seanyuki]

+1

[John_Nicholson]

The PB was the driving force behind the development of the red melon. Other types of fish may have been used to clean it up but the one thing that I fell very confident about is that 99.99% of all red melons have PB as the basis of their genetic makeup.

-john

[nc0gnet0]

That would be 100 % consistant with the few that I have bred as well (Pb based). I beleive the only exception is when the fish are designated as "Golden Red Melons" in which case I believe they are golden based, although even then I wouldn't swear by it until I bred the specific individual.

Rick

[Skip]

The PB was the driving force behind the development of the red melon. Other types of fish may have been used to clean it up but the one thing that I fell very confident about is that 99.99% of all red melons have PB as the basis of their genetic makeup.

-john

of course EXPERTS would know this right?!

[John_Nicholson]

That would be 100 % consistant with the few that I have bred as well (Pb based). I beleive the only exception is when the fish are designated as "Golden Red Melons" in which case I believe they are golden based, although even then I wouldn't swear by it until I bred the specific individual.

Rick

Correct but I personally do not think there are any 100% golden based ones around anymore. If there are I have not seen them in ages. I think it was too tempting to cross a PB to enhance the red color.

-john

[nc0gnet0]

As long as we are on this topic, John I have a question for you. It's really just a question of sematics, but wanted your take on the matter. If I were to cross into a brown based fish a red melon (pb based) to enhance the red, and then in future generations, remove the Pb gene (easy to do with a dominant gene), in your opinion, is the fish still pigeon blood based?

In other words, when you use the term "pigeon blood based" are you using that term to say the fish contains one or two pigeon blood genes, or, that a pigeon blood was used to develope the strain?

Rick

[John_Nicholson]

Very good question Rick. There are a lot of assumptions that we would have to make.....First we are talking phenotype and not genotype. Second we are taking the total genetic contribution of the PB fish and reducing it down to one gene. What if the cross lost the PB peppering problem but some how had a positive influence on the red color. If the red color is enhanced once you make the "separation" then at least part of the genetic contribution of the PB is still around. Otherwise you would not have had a change in the color.....I feel like I am talking in circles, but I do love the question.....I may think about it and later adjust my stance but I almost think you have to at least consider it a PB derivative. At some point in the future someone might map out the discus genes and we will get our better answers then.

-john

p.s. Lets talk about this some more at NADA.

[Skip]

for those that don't know

Phenotype = OUTSIDE APPEARANCE of traits.

Genotype = DNA makeup/genetics.. that cause PHENOTYPE>.

[nc0gnet0]

Pb derivative.....I like that term. I think a whole lot of the domestics would fall under that category. ;)

Rick

[Skip]

Pb derivative.....I like that term. I think a whole lot of the domestics would fall under that category. ;)

Rick

yep

[k7prz]

Speaking of Browns---are they ever available from the importers or sponsors here? When I was a kid
I had a couple and they were quite nice. The fancies were not developed yet.
I have a lot of empty tanks, lots of free water, and nothing else to do.

Dave near Portland, OR

[Skip]

Speaking of Browns---are they ever available from the importers or sponsors here? When I was a kid
I had a couple and they were quite nice. The fancies were not developed yet.
I have a lot of empty tanks, lots of free water, and nothing else to do.

Dave near Portland, OR

yep..

Hans, Kenny Mike Beals.. :)

[seanyuki]

Rarely seen pure golden discus these days......never been crossed for a few generations .......perhaps i am wrong.

[magewynd]

Francis,
if you ever see some come available let us know. I always wondered if in these red breedings if some golden fry showed up and you bred the golden siblings would they throw pure goldens.


Rarely seen pure golden discus these days......never been crossed for a few generations .......perhaps i am wrong.

[LizStreithorst]

I've always believed that orangey red had PD behind them. I still do. Brown red are brown based. I have seen no truely red Discus. It's one or the other.

I'm not doing reds now. If I were, I would try breeding a barless brown red to a clean solid orange red. My feeling is that I would see pepper in the offspring.

[nc0gnet0]

I'm not doing reds now. If I were, I would try breeding a barless brown red to a clean solid orange red. My feeling is that I would see pepper in the offspring.

Thats funny Liz, as I plan on doing exactly this in the next couple of months, thus my question to John.

Rick