Totally puzzled

[fobincorporated]

Hello guys! I'm totally confused by my discus recently. They've been doing the shimmy motion for the past 2 weeks but none of the 6 discus seem to want to pair up with one of their tank mates and I've no clue why it's the case. I've never dealt with a situation like this considering I've only had 2 successful pairs since I took up discus keeping at 2005. I've come up with a few ideas and I would appreciate what you guys think. Will post pictures later on the fish.

First tank info, parameters, etc:
tank size - 40 gal (yes I know it's crowded X_X)
pH - 7.2
hardness - kH 4, gH unknown I gotta get a new gH test kit
temp - 83.5 F consistently, give or take .5 degrees
filter - 2x sponge filters with air pump (no idea about the size but they're hydro and big)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - hovers around 25 ppm
water change - twice daily, 50% in the morning before feeding and 50-75% at night depending on how dirty my tank looks.
feeding - 3-4 times daily with frozen brine, tetrabits, cbw and frozen bloodworms.

Types of discus and size:
2x Alenquer cross (about 6.5-7 inch TL, I believe both are males)
2x Virgin red snakes (5.5 inch TL, one I believe is male, other is not certain)
1x Red golden Diamond (4 inch TL, too young to tell)
1x High body red spotted green (5.5 inch TL, I believe is the female)

Now before going through the possibilities I would like to note that my fish eat the food happily every time I feed and none show signs of stress or disease so take those into consideration before suggestions please =D

My guesses for them not willing to pair:

Compatibility - Even though 5 out of the 6 will shimmy and try to clean spawning site, none of them would work together so am I looking at discus that are ready to breed but does not have the right partner?

Size of tank - 40 gal tank housing 6 discus is obviously pushing the stocking limit given the size of my fish. Is it too crowded for 2 fish to pair up and breed?

Need more spawning areas - Over the 2 weeks I notice my discus hovering around the brick that I put in as a spawning media (it's worked for me every time as spawning media in the past) and 2 or 3 would go and clean it before returning to chasing their tank mates away and it would always be different discus trying to clean the brick, should I add in another brick to provide less competition for spawning site?

I actually don't have a female - Worst case scenario, really hope this isn't the case -_-. For this I will post pictures and maybe upload a video of the fish and experts can tell me if I have no female in my tank

Any feedback from experienced breeders welcome and thanks for taking your time to give me any advice =D

[fobincorporated]

Forgot to ask, are there any effective ways to force pair the fish? I would really like my red spotted green to pair up with one of the alenquers and I would love to try it before I try out natural pairing

[Second Hand Pat]

You simply place your RSG with the Alenquer of choice in their own tank and see what happens. That would help relieve the crowding in the 40. Hate to say this but it is best that you do NOT have a pair form in the main tank. I suspect you would have many unhappy fish.

[Chad Adams]

You simply place your RSG with the Alenquer of choice in their own tank and see what happens. That would help relieve the crowding in the 40. Hate to say this but it is best that you do NOT have a pair form in the main tank. I suspect you would have many unhappy fish.

+1

[Chicago Discus]

You simply place your RSG with the Alenquer of choice in their own tank and see what happens. That would help relieve the crowding in the 40. Hate to say this but it is best that you do NOT have a pair form in the main tank. I suspect you would have many unhappy fish.


works for me

[fobincorporated]

Just for clarification the reason for you saying that it's best to not have a pair form in the main tank is because of the size of my current main tank or is that the general rule of thumb regardless of the tank size I'm going with. I'm only asking that because in the past all my pairs formed inside my old 55 gallon prior to me transferring them to their own tank and it'd be nice to know if I've been going about it all wrong before =D

[TURQ64]

Back to the title and the top..You might reconsider your goals here, as six adults in a 40g long term isn't exactly good husbandry. Dealers crowd tanks and move out fish, but exceeding the speed limit for a hobbyist isn't recommended. As for the activity,I wouldn't feel like breeding in a closet with five other people eating and defecating there (although that's a bit of an anthromorphic comparison for my taste)..shimmying can be a very dissatisfied, angered motion also...75g's are quite reasonable...Now, my rant here is this; breeding fish is actually fairly easy. Properly maintaining the fry that result and raising them up, regardless of intent for the fry, is much tougher...

[nc0gnet0]

Get yourself a nice 75-90 gallon tank and place the six fish in there. This will give them enough room to pair up naturally. If you wish, you could keep the RSG and Alenquer in the 40 and attempt to force pair them. Either way, your going to need another tank. The 40 can serve as a breeding tank and a grow-out tank should you be succesfull. If you opt to just get a 20-29 gallon breeding tank, your still going to need a third tank eventually for grow-outs.

Rick

[zimmjeff]

speed limit that was a good one

[fobincorporated]

Understood, now if they do pair... have to wait for them to get things right and god knows how long that will take me lol. Thanks for all the advice guys!

[TURQ64]

The 40 would make a great tank for a breeding pair..Best of luck..( I prefer bricks...also!)

[Second Hand Pat]

Just for clarification the reason for you saying that it's best to not have a pair form in the main tank is because of the size of my current main tank or is that the general rule of thumb regardless of the tank size I'm going with. I'm only asking that because in the past all my pairs formed inside my old 55 gallon prior to me transferring them to their own tank and it'd be nice to know if I've been going about it all wrong before =D

Correct fobincorporated, my concern is the tank size. As Gary and Rick have mentioned a larger tank is really needed for the your current population.