Hi! Aaron here... Looking for your discus tank setup advice!

[Acf]

Hello All!

Great site. I hope I can contribute. I just joined scapeclub.org at the same time so forgive me if this is repetitive.

I'm looking to get an ADA style tank set up in my home for discus! I'll post some pictures and try to start a build thread for everyone to browse and hopefully bless me with some of their wisdom :D Your thoughts and opinions are very welcome.


I started loosely picking out equipment, but I've been out of the aquarium loop for 15 years. What do you think?


-Inline Heater: Hydor in line heater 300 w


-Tank brand: Rimless glass vs acrylic? 36x18x24h


-ADA style stand 36x18x36h: Looking for someone who can make me one...


-Canister Filter: Eheim Ecco prp 2236 VS Eheim professional 3E 2074 (Eheim is apparently the quietest)


-UV light: Coralife 77071 Turbo Twist


-Undergravel filter: Not sure which brand? Do I need to do custom ported holes in the bottom of my tank for this?


-LED Lighting: Not sure, something that can do day and night colors??


Thanks again, and hello!

Aaron

[magewynd]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?94283-The-Forum-Facts...Read-this.....
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93624-My-Planted-Tank-Experience

[Acf]

Both great links. Thank you.

I am definitely not starting with a planted tank. Just something simple with driftwood, rocks and gravel for now.

[magewynd]

I think you/they will outgrow that tank size in a few months. That footprint is a little larger than a 40gal. breeder, which would hold 5 or 6 juvies for a short time. Four adults at the most would be comfortable in the long run. The given rule of thumb is 1 adult for each 10 gallons. These guys are schooling fish and do better with a group of at least five. I would go 48" length like a 75 0r 90 gallon tank. if you get young ones you need to feed them quite a few times a day for them to reach max potential and the leftover food is a pain to vacuum up. Think about a light layer of pool filter sand.

IMO Steve



http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?94348-Tank-Setup-Questionaire

[Acf]

Thanks Steve. I'll look up pond filter sand. The tank I'm looking at is 60-65 gallons, 36x18x24h. Hopefully big enough for 5 discus. I read smaller discus are harder to care for than larger ones. Maybe I won't get them too small to start. :)

[strawberryblonde]

Hello All!

Great site. I hope I can contribute. I just joined scapeclub.org at the same time so forgive me if this is repetitive.

I'm looking to get an ADA style tank set up in my home for discus! I'll post some pictures and try to start a build thread for everyone to browse and hopefully bless me with some of their wisdom :D Your thoughts and opinions are very welcome.


I started loosely picking out equipment, but I've been out of the aquarium loop for 15 years. What do you think?


-Inline Heater: Hydor in line heater 300 w - This should work well for a 65g tank


-Tank brand: Rimless glass vs acrylic? 36x18x24h - Tank size is good, but you're going to want a top on the tank... discus are slow, calm fish, but can also be jumpers when they get startled


-ADA style stand 36x18x36h: Looking for someone who can make me one...


-Canister Filter: Eheim Ecco prp 2236 VS Eheim professional 3E 2074 (Eheim is apparently the quietest) - Good canister filter (see below for more notes)


-UV light: Coralife 77071 Turbo Twist - Not necessary for discus, in fact, I prefer not to use one since they require VERY slow movement through them in order to get any effect at all.


-Undergravel filter: Not sure which brand? Do I need to do custom ported holes in the bottom of my tank for this? - Here's the other filter note! No undergravel filters for discus! Use sponge filters or a HOB filter.


-LED Lighting: Not sure, something that can do day and night colors?? Marineland makes fairly inexpensive LED strips. I like the look and leave the blue night lights on all night for my breeding discus.


Thanks again, and hello!

Aaron

Other notes:

1) If you go with 3.5" - 4" discus you'll have an easier experience while growing them to adulthood. 4" was my personal choice since it was my first foray into growing out an entire group of discus and it was amazingly easy to do! I had a gravel bottom in a lightly planted tank and though I managed it quite well and they grew like weeds, I still ended up going barebottom later in the year when I added more discus. Gravel is doable, but a LOT more work than growing out in a barebottom tank. My personal thoughts: Grow them out in a barebottom for 4 months, THEN add gravel once they reach 6".

2) If you do decide to go the gravel or pool filter sand route, please rethink adding rocks. Rocks hide a LOT of detritus under and around them, it's disgusting what you find under there when you move the rocks for cleaning and that stuff will affect your water quality. Discus raising is ALL about water quality. Driftwood works really well for decor in either a barebottom or a sand substrate tank. It's easy to move around and if you get nice shapes or suspend it from the top of the tank it's also easy to keep detritus from building up under it. (Mine perches on three "roots" and leaves a large space underneath for my cory's to live in, as well as to keep clean and they're very good at it!)

3) Be sure to purchase your discus from a reputable breeder. There are several sponsors here on the SD forums who have beautiful discus and who will ship them right to your door. You pay more for the shipping costs (compared to purchasing from a LFS), but save money in the long run because the fish are less expensive AND healthier!

4) You'll want to purchase some tank cleaners - Sterbai corydoras catfish are awesome in a small group for cleaning up any leftover bits of food and add a bushynose pleco if you have algae issues. Discus also enjoy a small group of dither fish. There are several options for that purpose including rummynose tetra's and cardinal tetra's.

[Poco]

Thanks for the info.

[Acf]

Strawberry - BIG thank you.

Let me do some more research on the notes you've made and get back to you. I'm still waiting to hit 10 posts on this forum. Then I can post links and put together a more comprehensive post of my plans to give you a better idea of what I'm going for.



Other notes:

1) If you go with 3.5" - 4" discus you'll have an easier experience while growing them to adulthood. 4" was my personal choice since it was my first foray into growing out an entire group of discus and it was amazingly easy to do! I had a gravel bottom in a lightly planted tank and though I managed it quite well and they grew like weeds, I still ended up going barebottom later in the year when I added more discus. Gravel is doable, but a LOT more work than growing out in a barebottom tank. My personal thoughts: Grow them out in a barebottom for 4 months, THEN add gravel once they reach 6".

2) If you do decide to go the gravel or pool filter sand route, please rethink adding rocks. Rocks hide a LOT of detritus under and around them, it's disgusting what you find under there when you move the rocks for cleaning and that stuff will affect your water quality. Discus raising is ALL about water quality. Driftwood works really well for decor in either a barebottom or a sand substrate tank. It's easy to move around and if you get nice shapes or suspend it from the top of the tank it's also easy to keep detritus from building up under it. (Mine perches on three "roots" and leaves a large space underneath for my cory's to live in, as well as to keep clean and they're very good at it!)

3) Be sure to purchase your discus from a reputable breeder. There are several sponsors here on the SD forums who have beautiful discus and who will ship them right to your door. You pay more for the shipping costs (compared to purchasing from a LFS), but save money in the long run because the fish are less expensive AND healthier!

4) You'll want to purchase some tank cleaners - Sterbai corydoras catfish are awesome in a small group for cleaning up any leftover bits of food and add a bushynose pleco if you have algae issues. Discus also enjoy a small group of dither fish. There are several options for that purpose including rummynose tetra's and cardinal tetra's.

[Acf]

Hehe... Hi Poco. Agreed :D


Thanks for the info.

[magewynd]

Hey Aaron,

Just bump this post till you get to 10 posts.

[magewynd]

Bump

[DonMD]

Toni's post is chock full of excellent advice, I completely second everything she said. Especially avoid an under gravel filter, that's a bad idea for discus, no one does that.

I'd also say that as you're starting out again after a long absence, think very carefully before committing to tank size and stand, etc. No matter what size you get, if you become proficient at keeping discus, you'll always wish you had bigger tanks. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

[Acf]

I can tell already how valuable this forum is. Thanks Don!

I didn't want to post random bumps for etiquette reasons but if i've got the go ahead, I'll bump this up to get things rolling!



Toni's post is chock full of excellent advice, I completely second everything she said. Especially avoid an under gravel filter, that's a bad idea for discus, no one does that.

I'd also say that as you're starting out again after a long absence, think very carefully before committing to tank size and stand, etc. No matter what size you get, if you become proficient at keeping discus, you'll always wish you had bigger tanks. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

[Acf]

bump 01

[Acf]

bump 02

[Acf]

bump 03

[Acf]

bump 04

... im free. :balloon:

[Acf]

Alright!! Freedom! Here are my plans.


I was inspired by this video and I would like to get my setup as close to this as possible! (without the open top and wood sticking out)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvQcLY04V4&feature=related



The blue tape is the spot for the tank:

That's a spot for a 36x18x36h ADA style custom. The blue rectangle of tape on the wall represents a 36x18x24H tank. I'm thinking rimless glass. Between my mirror and shelf there is only 39" of space, so there is no more room for a larger tank. This is it.

http://www.aaronchanfilms.com/Discus/Tank_001.JPG

[DonMD]

Hi, Aaron,

I checked out the video you posted. While it's beautiful, I think it's totally impractical. I normally do a minor cleaning and w/c every two days, and a more thorough cleaning once a week. All that careful placing of driftwood would be completely undone trying to clean all the detritus that will collect there. Whatever you put in the tank, just make plans to be able to syphon underneath it. Sand is a great substrate, easy to keep clean and vacuum, but that nest of driftwood would in short order collect lots of nasties. Just my opinion. -Don

[Acf]

Hey Don. Sounds scary. I am definitely open to a bare bottom tank with maybe just a single peice of driftwood, at least to start.

I've been doing some reading through this forum. Definitely got a long way to go still, but from what I gather I've got people saying to change water everyday, a couple times a week, I even saw one video where the guy changes the water once every 2 weeks or once a month and everything is fine. It's on youtube, i'll try to dig it up.

If you start with five 4" discus in a 65 gallon tank with a top of the line filteration system, would you really have to go so overkill on the water changes? Everyone's theories seem spread across the board.

Will continue doing research.

[magewynd]

I've been doing some reading through this forum. Definitely got a long way to go still, but from what I gather I've got people saying to change water everyday, a couple times a week, I even saw one video where the guy changes the water once every 2 weeks or once a month and everything is fine.
If you start with five 4" discus in a 65 gallon tank with a top of the line filteration system, would you really have to go so overkill on the water changes? Everyone's theories seem spread across the board.

Will continue doing research.

Aaron,

it's not so much theory, but what comes down to your own practical experience and common sense. You'll get to know your fish and when something is not right with them. If you check the threads in the Disease/Sickness and Medication section over the last two months and you'll see quite a few that are related to water quality and water changes. Especially new to discus people trying to do planted tanks.

Look at the tank set ups you like and see what they are doing to be successful.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi again Aaron,

I do understand some of the confusion regarding water changes. I had a lot of questions about it too when I got started in discus last year. It all comes down to common sense and experience.

Glad to hear that you're thinking about going with 4" discus! They are considered sub-adults and as such, won't require as many feedings and water changes per day. On the other hand, they are still growing at a fairly fast rate, so they'll still need as many as 5 feedings per day or as few as 3 feedings...depending on what you feed and how much you offer at each feeding.

Water changes will still be strenuous during the remaining period of growth. Lots of people have tried to get away with fewer feedings and fewer water changes, but it usually doesn't result in full sized fish and/or healthy fish.

On the plus side, you'll only need to keep up with the heavy feedings and water changes for a few months, as opposed to a full year if growing out the little guys!! =)

Mine grew at a faster rate than is considered normal (I think about 1/2 inch per month is about normal for 4" discus, mine grew at 1" per month for 3 months, then 1/2 per month for 2 more months). I attribute the faster growth to purchasing from a very reputable breeder here on the forums and maybe a bit to my frequent feedings and heavy duty water changes. I did a twice per day water change for those first 5 months and fed them 6-7 times per day.

So if you're going to try for normal growth, you'll want to do 3-4 feedings per day of meat heavy foods. Then you'll want to change the water every day. Once in a great while you can skip a day and it won't bother the discus, but if you make a habit of it you'll start to see your water quality go down and if you do it often enough you'll compromise the health of the growing discus.

Believe it or not, once you get into the routine of every day water changes it really isn't that much of a chore! I use a python water siphon so that my dirty tank water goes straight out the door to my garden and then the fresh water comes back in from the tap in my laundry room via 50 feet of tubing. For my routine, I start by shutting everything off (no water movement means the crud stays put on the bottom instead of floating around). Then I siphon all the visible crud from the bottom. That takes about 5 minutes. After that I give the sides of the tank a quick scrubbing with a scrubbie on a long handle...takes about 3 minutes and then I wander off to do other things while the tank drains. Draining should only take about 20 minutes in a 65...perhaps less than that to get the water level down to 25%.

After that I add Safe to the water in the tank, stuff a piece of Poret foam into the siphon (to reduce micro bubbles), test my water at the tap, attach the siphon to it, flip on the water, set a timer (in my case 23 minutes cuz my tank is large) and walk away while the tank fills. Timer goes off, I shut off the water, put away the hose and I'm done!

I'm thinking with your tank you can have the entire thing done in less than an hour and your actual "work" time will only be about 10 minutes of that hour.

So can you do that for 4-5 months? I'm betting you can! =)

After they are adults you'll be able to reduce the feedings to twice per day and water changes to every other day or even every third day, depending on how much water you change each time.

Discus DO require more frequent water changes for their entire lives than other tropical fish. It's a small price to pay for keeping the king of the aquarium...for me anyways.

[Acf]

What a post... that was awesome, thank you Strawberry. I can see your post being helpful to any beginner on this forum! Very easy to visualize the step by step.
I like your idea of setting up easy access to the water. I think if youre going to have discus, setting up a water "pipeline" is key to making things painless. My tank will be situated on the ground floor. A 30 foot hose from the tap inside my attached garage will probably reach the tank. A 10 foot house from the downstairs bathroom to the tank might work too. I would have to get a new faucet as mine is too fancy lol (it doesnt have threads to screw a hose onto). It will be a fun home project to rig up the hose in a clean manner. I could siphon the old water back into the downstairs toilet, or out the front door into the front garden which is only about 15 feet away too.

One thing im unclear about: Do you put the tap/hose water straight into the tank, or does the water need to be treated first?

Also, I have a home water softener. Will that affect the water in an adverse way for the fish?

Two more random things:

1. Seems weird to me nobody has invented some super device that makes changing water easier, or removes the impurities automatically with a special filter or something. Is there anything out there, no matter what the cost that can help out with this? Its 2012!!! We have ipads and segways now! ;)

2. Here was the video I was talking about earlier. He says that once the fish are mature, you can do a 30% water change once a week, or once a month if you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdrtVYBQDY&feature=relmfu




Hi again Aaron,

I do understand some of the confusion regarding water changes. I had a lot of questions about it too when I got started in discus last year. It all comes down to common sense and experience.

Glad to hear that you're thinking about going with 4" discus! They are considered sub-adults and as such, won't require as many feedings and water changes per day. On the other hand, they are still growing at a fairly fast rate, so they'll still need as many as 5 feedings per day or as few as 3 feedings...depending on what you feed and how much you offer at each feeding.

Water changes will still be strenuous during the remaining period of growth. Lots of people have tried to get away with fewer feedings and fewer water changes, but it usually doesn't result in full sized fish and/or healthy fish.

On the plus side, you'll only need to keep up with the heavy feedings and water changes for a few months, as opposed to a full year if growing out the little guys!! =)

Mine grew at a faster rate than is considered normal (I think about 1/2 inch per month is about normal for 4" discus, mine grew at 1" per month for 3 months, then 1/2 per month for 2 more months). I attribute the faster growth to purchasing from a very reputable breeder here on the forums and maybe a bit to my frequent feedings and heavy duty water changes. I did a twice per day water change for those first 5 months and fed them 6-7 times per day.

So if you're going to try for normal growth, you'll want to do 3-4 feedings per day of meat heavy foods. Then you'll want to change the water every day. Once in a great while you can skip a day and it won't bother the discus, but if you make a habit of it you'll start to see your water quality go down and if you do it often enough you'll compromise the health of the growing discus.

Believe it or not, once you get into the routine of every day water changes it really isn't that much of a chore! I use a python water siphon so that my dirty tank water goes straight out the door to my garden and then the fresh water comes back in from the tap in my laundry room via 50 feet of tubing. For my routine, I start by shutting everything off (no water movement means the crud stays put on the bottom instead of floating around). Then I siphon all the visible crud from the bottom. That takes about 5 minutes. After that I give the sides of the tank a quick scrubbing with a scrubbie on a long handle...takes about 3 minutes and then I wander off to do other things while the tank drains. Draining should only take about 20 minutes in a 65...perhaps less than that to get the water level down to 25%.

After that I add Safe to the water in the tank, stuff a piece of Poret foam into the siphon (to reduce micro bubbles), test my water at the tap, attach the siphon to it, flip on the water, set a timer (in my case 23 minutes cuz my tank is large) and walk away while the tank fills. Timer goes off, I shut off the water, put away the hose and I'm done!

I'm thinking with your tank you can have the entire thing done in less than an hour and your actual "work" time will only be about 10 minutes of that hour.

So can you do that for 4-5 months? I'm betting you can! =)

After they are adults you'll be able to reduce the feedings to twice per day and water changes to every other day or even every third day, depending on how much water you change each time.

Discus DO require more frequent water changes for their entire lives than other tropical fish. It's a small price to pay for keeping the king of the aquarium...for me anyways.

[applekrate]

Hey Aaron,

I only skimmed the posts so if Im repeating just skip.

I really like your choices. Nice tank in the video.

The one thing I would add is when I set up my 46 gal I was advised to go the 72 gal but I didn't. 4 months later I had to admit I wished I had gone the 72 gal. My thought is I would use as much of the wall as possible for the tank and hang the mirror above the tank. I realize you prob need the mirror but again I would use as much of the wall as possible. If you don't already have the tank, a bowed tank will put a nice curve on the corner. I agree with Don that the mirror will get splashes, I use a sponge to wipe mine.
I also agree with Don on the cleaning. Some solutions might be, attach the wood to tile with a stainless screw so you can just lift. Create a wedge sponge to dust the debris out from corners.

A small thought on W.C.. If you have not cared for discus before and you want to make your job easier in the long run...research everything on how water works and its chemistry. Call your water Co. and ask what is in your tap water. Understand how everything from micro bubbles to ph to bio for the filter to how water temp and affect you tank chemistry etc, etc, etc....
This in itself will explain a lot of the "Why" in W.C..
I admit this takes a lot of reading and time but it will save ur fish.

I read that some people use a transfer pump and have there w.c. done in no time flat.
Just my opinion....

[Acf]

Fantastic advice. Thanks Apple.

About the mirror. I've thought about potentially moving it to create more space for a tank as well. That being said, I really do use the mirror everyday where it is so it's kind of useful there. I dont see any other place for it downstairs. As it is with the mirror, a 36x18x24h tank which is what will fit in my spot is 65 gallons. That seems like it's big enough for 5 mature discus and a school of 15 cardinals or something. No plants. I know everyone wants me to go for the 108 gallon but I hope this 65 gallon will please the forum people here :D

Like you said, im not going to rush into this or expect to have discus swimming in my house by next week. I wanted a new hobby that can take my mind off other things from time to time, so I am enjoying slowly reading this forum and doing research on what the necessary steps are. Everyone's posts here so far have been extremely helpful. Slowly im getting pointed in the right direction.

I'll call my water company and ask them for information about the water. Does anyone have any reccomendations on the best water tester equipment? I'll go pick it up this week and test my water just to see where I'm at right now.

I really like the idea of setting up a water transfer pump to make water changes automatic! I'll look into that as well.





Hey Aaron,

I only skimmed the posts so if Im repeating just skip.

I really like your choices. Nice tank in the video.

The one thing I would add is when I set up my 46 gal I was advised to go the 72 gal but I didn't. 4 months later I had to admit I wished I had gone the 72 gal. My thought is I would use as much of the wall as possible for the tank and hang the mirror above the tank. I realize you prob need the mirror but again I would use as much of the wall as possible. If you don't already have the tank, a bowed tank will put a nice curve on the corner. I agree with Don that the mirror will get splashes, I use a sponge to wipe mine.
I also agree with Don on the cleaning. Some solutions might be, attach the wood to tile with a stainless screw so you can just lift. Create a wedge sponge to dust the debris out from corners.

A small thought on W.C.. If you have not cared for discus before and you want to make your job easier in the long run...research everything on how water works and its chemistry. Call your water Co. and ask what is in your tap water. Understand how everything from micro bubbles to ph to bio for the filter to how water temp and affect you tank chemistry etc, etc, etc....
This in itself will explain a lot of the "Why" in W.C..
I admit this takes a lot of reading and time but it will save ur fish.

I read that some people use a transfer pump and have there w.c. done in no time flat.
Just my opinion....

[Acf]

After reading this thread, it looks like there may be another solution to helping with minimizing water changes?!!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?83834-Nitrate-filter

What if I got a nitrate filter and a wet dry filter in addition to an oversized canister filter and UV light filter? WC's every 2 weeks? :D

[applekrate]

Aaron,
I agree that 65 gal is a good size. I didn't do the gallon calculations on your tank.
I use the API master. Seems to serve well.
Sounds like your on your way

[Acf]

Test kit purchased! Will check the water soon.




Aaron,
I agree that 65 gal is a good size. I didn't do the gallon calculations on your tank.
I use the API master. Seems to serve well.
Sounds like your on your way

[ExReefer]

After reading this thread, it looks like there may be another solution to helping with minimizing water changes?!!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?83834-Nitrate-filter

What if I got a nitrate filter and a wet dry filter in addition to an oversized canister filter and UV light filter? WC's every 2 weeks? :D

No, but I would tell you that I go every 3-4 days on WC's with great success in my 125G. I have two Aquaclear 110's and an Eheim 2075 with a prefilter sponge. I squeeze out the sponges from 110's at every other WC in tank water. Those filters pull out a great deal of waste. The sponges are very dirty every 7-8 days with discus feces. Very little waste collects on my sand bottom so I don't spend much time siphoning. I feed beefheart at my last feeding of the night with the filters off during feedings and for 20 mins. afterwards. I don't overfeed the beefheart so that it all gets eaten within 20 mins. My sand bottom is completely free of decor so that the fish have no problem finding all the food. I only offer three feedings per day and only keep discus no less than 4" under these conditions. And finally, I don't overstock my tanks. The bottom line is that you can vary your WC's depending on feedings, filters, size of fish, tank volume, etc. Many, many factors will affect the frequency to change water, but every two weeks is out of the question.

[Acf]

Well, its been a week or two and I haven't been able to find anyone who can build a custom stand for me to the exact specifications. Anyone got any ideas where I can get one made?

Custom ADA style stand is what we're going for..