Mouth fungus???

[BlackComet94]

Please take a look at pics and help me save him.
Thank you
Let me make 10 posts then upload pics.
Sorry

[BlackComet94]

TIA

[BlackComet94]

1 more post

[BlackComet94]

Here we go
http://www.box.com/s/c84f122fdffda0f9e4bf
http://www.box.com/s/b425bf71e35f3efbf09c

[jimg]

I cannot get on to see pics but white on the lips could be fungus from damaged tissue from fighting which I doubt or it could be columnaris. if so I would do salt dip then anti bio (furan product) fill out questionnaire http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete would help too

[Chicago Discus]

If you ever come back the first thing I would do is set up a hospital tank and make sure the water is cycled and at a normal temperature range plenty of aeration and fresh clean water. I would start by using Erythromycin to treat the infection you can also use some salt when treating with the Erythromycin. Follow the directions on the package because its hard to give you a dosage because there are many different brands. Its my best guess and I would still fill out the questioner above its really hard to help with out a full picture of whats going on. But by what I see and the information given thats what I would do............Josie

[Eddie]

Methylene blue, 10 second dip and return the fish to a hospital tank to monitor progression. The instructions say to return to the original tank but I find it best to return fish to a hospital tank after ANY dip. The stress of the treatment coupled with the existing bugs in the original tank can be detrimental. Get him back in shape and then return him once he's fully recovered.

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/methylene_blue/index.htm

For use as a dip for treatment of fungus or external parasitic protozoans and cyanide poisoning:
(a) Prepare a nonmetallic container of sufficient size to contain the fish to be treated by adding water similar to the original aquarium.
(b) Add 5 teaspoons (24.65 ml) per 3 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 50 ppm. It is not recommended that the concentration be increased beyond 50 ppm.
(c) Place fishes to be treated in this solution for no longer than 10 seconds.
(d) Return fish to original aquarium.

[strawberryblonde]

Here are his pics for anyone who can't view them in Picasa:

73027
73026
73028

[Eddie]

With those pictures, I'd suggest something more like Furan-2. Fix it up in a jiffy!

[BlackComet94]

Thanks for all your help but he couldn't make it.
I am so sad.
I saw the damage around 7 AM this morning (everything was fine as of 10 PM last night). Transfer him to 20 gallon hospital tank treated with fungus cure plus salt (1 teaspoon/ 5 gallon) and had to go to work.
My daughter called me around 4 and said he was in a bottom and barely breathing.
Around 15 min later she called again and said his fin stopped moving.
He dead.


Why did he die so quickly?
What else could I have done to save him?

I will get back to you with questionnaire.

[Eddie]

Sorry to hear about the loss. Could have been a severe bacteria infection, or something with the water in the hospital tank, maybe contaminants. Did you dose the fungus cure properly? Hard to tell but that was rapid.

[BlackComet94]

Hospital tank filled with aged water
Treated with Prime
Airstone
Heater at 84 degrees
One teaspoon per 5 gallon salt
Fungus Cure (1 packet per 10 gallons)

[Eddie]

Sounds good to me. And there was no possibility of contaminants in the hospital tank prior to filling? Was cleaned out thoroughly?

[BlackComet94]

The hospital tank was in the garage for a week with no water until the fish got sick. The lid was on. Maybe dirt got in somehow?
The last time I used it (2 weeks ago), about 5 fish were in and they all survived.

[BlackComet94]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started
-This morning around 7.
-not eating well (was fine last night as of 10 PM)
-Looks like mouth fungus


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

-mouth fungus?

3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

-API fungus cure. 1 packet per 10G. (used 2 packets for 20G tank)
-Salt 1teaspoon/ 5G
-From 8 am this morning


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

-90G fake DW and fake plants
-2 months (not complete cycle, controlled by prime/ stability)
-Temp 30 C
-11 discus (2.5 to 4.5 in)
-15 tetras (variety)


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

-40% daily
-40% on weekend (twice a day)
-Gravel
-Aged water

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 30C

- ph 6.6

- ammonia reading < 1

- nitrite reading 2.00 (as stated above, tank isn't complete cycle. I treated water with prime and stabilty)

- nitrate reading (N/A)

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
-None

[jimg]

nitrite bad. prime/stabilty may not be enough up wc's to 80-90% a day or get some dr timms or safe start.

[nc0gnet0]

Amonnia around 1, nitrites around 2.0. If the tank isn't cycled, why are their fish in there? Sorry for your loss, but filling out the disease questionare sooner might have made a difference in recomending a treatment protocol. You had people focusingon the mouth issue, when the more urgent issue was nitrite poisoning. Argh....

[BlackComet94]

Amonnia around 1, nitrites around 2.0. If the tank isn't cycled, why are their fish in there? Sorry for your loss, but filling out the disease questionare sooner might have made a difference in recomending a treatment protocol. You had people focusingon the mouth issue, when the more urgent issue was nitrite poisoning. Argh....

I put "Mouth fungus???", I am sorry if I mislead anyone.
If I have time; I definitely fill out the questionnaire sooner.
Please read this http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?95129-Please-help-me-bring-down-ammonia-level&highlight=
Is high nitrite level make discus mouth like that?
What should I do ATM for the 90G tank other than waitting for Dr Timms bottle?
I am sorry for nood questions.

[Orange Crush]

I put "Mouth fungus???", I am sorry if I mislead anyone.
If I have time; I definitely fill out the questionnaire sooner.
Please read this http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?95129-Please-help-me-bring-down-ammonia-level&highlight=
Is high nitrite level make discus mouth like that?
What should I do ATM for the 90G tank other than waitting for Dr Timms bottle?
I am sorry for nood questions.
Poor water quality (like ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes >5, etc) can stress the discus out. All fish have small amounts of one bacteria/parasite or another that do not make the fish sick until they are stressed. This is most likely why they got the mouth fungus.

The best thing you can do RIGHT NOW is a very large water change with dechlorinator and continue to do that every day.

In the future start with your first post being the disease questionaire, it can save the life of your discus and will not take any more time than what you have spent posting, reading and treating the problem you are currently having. In fact, I think you will find it saves you time in the long run and you will get more accurate responses and perhaps more responses in general.

[strawberryblonde]

What type of filters are you using? Have you given them a good cleaning lately?

The reason I'm asking is that I started out with a canister filter and didn't know that I needed a pre-filter in order to keep large food bits out. I was REALLY good (or so I thought) about turning off the filter during beefheart feedings and felt that that was enough to keep the gunk out of the canister.

At the time (first 2 weeks of having my discus in the tank) I couldn't get my mini-cycle under control and had to do massive water changes twice a day. Finally a house guest suggested giving the canister filter a good cleaning. I was SHOCKED when I saw all the food bits and crap that had built up in just 2 weeks.

Sure enough, once I cleaned the canister really well, the ammonia and nitrite levels dropped to zero. At that point I put on a pre-filter, added a seeded sponge filter and from that day on had no problems again with ammonia and nitrites.

[Eddie]

On the other edge of the sword, if you were using stability properly, you will still show nitrites without any adverse issues to the fish. Been using it for ages. Lately some have reported that it was not working but if you follow the directions on the bottle, you wont have any issues. I love the stuff and will use it again in the future.