Help now now now.....please

[krislewis3]

My 4 juvies who I've had for 3 months are suddenly dying after my water change this morning!!!! they started not swimming right during the water change......PLEASE help me

[Skip]

did you add prime/or other de-chlorinator..
how did you add the water to the tank.. what did you use?

[Ioan C.]

Hello, are the discus still alive? Is the biofilter working well ? How much ammonia / nitrite? Is the new water smelling like chlorine?
If you are sure that the new water is good make a big water change, even if the water is not aged, or put the Discus in another container, with new water.
If you have some, use water conditioner!

[krislewis3]

I added the prime....but I filled the tank first!!!!! The tank was full for about 15 minuets prior to added the prime. I normally add it immediately!!! When I noticed then acting weird, I added the prime. In my panic, I also added salt. Now I notice that 3 of them are reviving. Their fins looked raggedy. Do you think there is a chance that they will make it???? I am soooooooooooooooooooooo upset!!!!!

[krislewis3]

The fourth one is now acting more normal.....Im still not sure what to expect! I think it had to be the chlorine, and my delayed use of the prime!! WOW! I am a wreck!!!!! What should I do now???? And btw, thank you so very much for your help, and your shoulder!!!!
All tests show the water as normal...no ammonia etc......

[Skip]

I added the prime....but I filled the tank first!!!!! The tank was full for about 15 minuets prior to added the prime. I normally add it immediately!!! When I noticed then acting weird, I added the prime. In my panic, I also added salt. Now I notice that 3 of them are reviving. Their fins looked raggedy. Do you think there is a chance that they will make it???? I am soooooooooooooooooooooo upset!!!!!

HOW EXACTLY did you add water?
buckets?
if you used a HOSE.. what TYPE of HOSE did you use..

WAIT>...................... i just reread
you added water with chlorine into the Tank .. then when you noticed they were being affect by CHLORINE POISON.. you added prime..?! is this correct?!
also.. are you treating with prime the ENTIRE TANK VOLUME!? or just the water you added?!
you should be treating for ENTIRE TANK>.

[krislewis3]

Correct.,after filling the tank following a 75%wc, I failed to add the prime for 20min. Or so...normally, I add the prime immediately, for the amount of new water added!
I don't use buckets...I use a hose that hooks to the kitchen faucet, from which I can vacume, remove water, and then fill from the same hose.....

[Skip]

1. your fish were probably suffering from Chlorine..
2. always treat ENTIRE TANK no matter how much you add.. IF adding Directly to the tank..
3. you still did not say what TYPE of Hose. is it a WATER HOSE, CLEAR python type hose.. water hose can leach toxic chemicals into tank.. thats why i ask..

[Ioan C.]

If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always add water conditioner one hour before the water change.

[krislewis3]

The hose came from petsmart, and has only been used in aquarium. It's made of clear plastic!!!! Thanks for the advise...I didn't know to add for the tank volume each time. Should I add the prime PRIOR to filling the tank? All four fish now seem normal....I fed them, and they all ate normally. Do you think I have a good chance for a full recovery???? Is there anything else I should be doing?

[Skip]

If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always add water conditioner one hour before the water change.

false
adding water conditioner to REMOVE chlorine will do NOTHING for the water you ADDING During water change.. not before

UNLESS You are talking about AGED water in another tank..

you need to be more specific

[krislewis3]

Say what??? Do I add prime before or after adding water?

[Skip]

Say what??? Do I add prime before or after adding water?3.

YES add prime at the TIME of Adding Water from TAP.. if you have 60 gallon tank.. but adding 30 gallons.. you add per directions the amount needed to treat the entire 60 gallons..

DO NOT LISTEN to the other person.. that comment is false and not relevant to water changes

they should recover.. *fingers crossed*
just keep an eye on them.. and don't forget that chlorine is DEADLY to fish.. so ALWAYS add conditioner during the water change..

i get my hose positioned and turn it on.. THEN i walk back to tank.. make sure hose is secure then add SAFE (its dry prime) to tank and wait till its full..

[krislewis3]

Than you very very much for all of your help.....I am hoping for a full recovery..they are looking better ( I am very surprised that they went from almost dead, to looking fairly normal in 1 hour or so.

[Skip]

great to hear.. !!

now don't forget next time :)

[strawberryblonde]

Yup yup, what Warlock said! Add the Prime or Safe at the beginning of the fill, not after it's filled.

I start warming my water at the tap, then walk back to the tank, toss in the Safe (equal to treating the entire 115g tank), stuff my poret foam block into the end of the siphon, plop it in the tank, then go back to the tap, hook up the hose and flip on my pre-warmed water faucets.

By doing it in that order I'm less likely to forget to add the Prime. (Not infallible though, ask me sometime about the day I forgot to turn my heaters back on...eeeeesh)

[Eddie]

Yup yup, what Warlock said! Add the Prime or Safe at the beginning of the fill, not after it's filled.



Always! Sorry to hear about the loss.

[MightyEvil]

What the HECK!?!?!?!

I have kept fish for over 9 years (consecutively) and I have never heard of adding prime/water conditioner while adding the water to the tank...

I have always put my water in the container I use to replenish my water, add the prime/conditioner there, fill that container with water and then fill the tank with that water...

I have read that adding the water directly to the tank and dosing prime/conditioner is not the way to do it because by the time the chemicals start working, the chlorine will already be inside the fish and cause damage little by little (and this makes sense to me)...

I have always done it this way and never lost a fish to a water change... Maybe I am understanding wrong but I dont know

[applekrate]

krislewis3-

Glad to hear everyone is on the mend :)

[Altum Nut]

I've always added my powered version of prime (Safe) directly to the entire tanks volume just before I crank open my fill hose attached to my tap. Never lost any fish.
I have added it during my start fill in the past but never after tank is already full.
Sorry for your loss.

...Ralph

[nc0gnet0]

If you dose your tank One hour prior to performing a water change, wouldn't you then end up removing half of it when you siphon the tank? Seems like a waste. Technically, the dechlor should still be active after an hour, albeit at a reduced concentration. Best time to add the dechlorinator is just after siphoning the tank, but prior to adding the fresh water. The reaction is almost instantaneous.

[Ioan C.]

Chlorine leaves the water in a few hours, so there is no chlorine in the old water, if it was more than a few hours in the tank. Therefore it is no reason to ad primer to the old water that was first in the tank, and it should be only added to the new water, and only for the amount of it, in the tank in which the new water is prepared for the next waterchange.
On the other hand, the primer needs a certain time to process the chlorine and the heavy Metals which may be present.
It is therefore self-evident that the water primer has to be added into the new water before the water change.
Please read the instructions for use of the water primer.
Chemical reactions need some time to stabilize itself.
It is therefore necessary to change the water first outside of the aquarium, and it should be done in it only if it behaves stable and the water values ​​are comparable with those from the Aquarium.

[Skip]

Chlorine leaves the water in a few hours after it no longer is under the pressure of the conduit, so there is no chlorine in the old water, if it was more than a few hours in the tank. Therefore it is no reason to ad primer to the old water that was first in the tank, and it should be only added to the new water, and only for the amount of it, in the tank in which the new water is prepared for the next waterchange.
On the other hand, the primer needs a certain time to process the chlorine and the heavy Metals which may be present.
It is therefore self-evident that the water primer has to be added into the new water before the water change.
Please read the instructions for use of the water primer.

how do you do your water changes..?

[magewynd]

Do water companies treat the water with chloramines in Germany? Are you talking about the same product?


Chlorine leaves the water in a few hours, so there is no chlorine in the old water, if it was more than a few hours in the tank. Therefore it is no reason to ad primer to the old water that was first in the tank, and it should be only added to the new water, and only for the amount of it, in the tank in which the new water is prepared for the next waterchange.
On the other hand, the primer needs a certain time to process the chlorine and the heavy Metals which may be present.
It is therefore self-evident that the water primer has to be added into the new water before the water change.
Please read the instructions for use of the water primer.

[Skip]

Do water companies treat the water with chloramines in Germany? Are you talking about the same product?

who knows what he means

[Orange Crush]

Chlorine leaves the water in a few hours after it no longer is under the pressure of the conduit, so there is no chlorine in the old water, if it was more than a few hours in the tank. Therefore it is no reason to ad primer to the old water that was first in the tank, and it should be only added to the new water, and only for the amount of it, in the tank in which the new water is prepared for the next waterchange.
On the other hand, the primer needs a certain time to process the chlorine and the heavy Metals which may be present.
It is therefore self-evident that the water primer has to be added into the new water before the water change.
Please read the instructions for use of the water primer.
Dechlor works almost instantaniously so it is best to add it just before you put the new water in the tank if you are using a python. You must add enough dechlor for the the entire volume of the tank not just the amount of water being added. This way the new water going into the tank can be dechlorinated (it is easier for the new water to "make contact" with the dechlor this way and thusly be neutralized). Doing it any other way is asking for trouble.

[Skip]

Dechlor works almost instantaniously so it is best to add it just before you put the new water in the tank if you are using a python. You must add enough dechlor for the the entire volume of the tank not just the amount of water being added. This way the new water going into the tank can be dechlorinated (it is easier for the new water to "make contact" with the dechlor this way and thusly be neutralized). Doing it any other way is asking for trouble.

USA USA USA!

[magewynd]

I agree with you Skip. This guy's answers are almost the direct opposite to the advice you have given or I would give. Not just on this thread.

OC, I do it that way too.


USA USA USA!

[Ioan C.]

Do water companies treat the water with chloramines in Germany? Are you talking about the same product?Yes, they do sometimes, if it is necessary, not only in Germany, but in other countries to, ex.: Romania.
how do you do your water changes..?I keep several hours, or days, 220 L (58,117g) Fresh water from the tap in a ton of polyethylene, so that the gases can escape. In a same large ton I keep 220 ​​L permeate.
In a 175 L (46,23g) barrel the fresh water is mixed to permeate at approximately 250μS/cm (about 8 ° dGH) and heated to 29 ° C. (84.2 °F) After about 30 min - 1 hour i put it in the aquarium.
In the past 20 years i never had chlorine in my water.

[krislewis3]

Next morning.........they seem ok!!!! Once again..your help was greatly appreciated!!!! Kris

[magewynd]

I am not familiar with permeate. What is it? Or permeate with what? Is something permeating in or out of the water?

In the U.S. most of the larger metropolitan areas now use chloramine in the water. Aging alone does not dissipate this like it would chlorine. I have found for myself it I treat with Prime (Seachem product) the water in my aging barrels and don't use it in a few days bacteria will start to grow in the barrels defeating the whole purpose of doing a water change. This I why I add the Prime to the tanks just before I refill with the aged water. I also age the water to dispel gasses, settle the PH and raise the temp to just below my tank temps which is also 84 degrees.


Yes, they do sometimes, if it is necessary, not only in Germany, but in other countries to, ex.: Romania.I keep several hours, or days, 220 L (58,117g) Fresh water from the tap in a ton of polyethylene, so that the gases can escape. In a same large ton I keep 220 ​​L permeate.
In a 175 L (46,23g) barrel the fresh water is mixed to permeate at approximately 250μS/cm (about 8 ° dGH) and heated to 29 ° C. (84.2 °F) After about 30 min - 1 hour i put it in the aquarium.
In the past 20 years i never had chlorine in my water.

[magewynd]

Kris,
I'm glad they are looking better. As you can tell, they may be a few ways to do things. Hang in there, I still am.


Next morning.........they seem ok!!!! Once again..your help was greatly appreciated!!!! Kris

[Ioan C.]

I am not familiar with permeate. What is it? Or permeate with what? Is something permeating in or out of the water?Hi Steve, permeate is the pure water that goes through the osmosis membrane.
A very small rest of other foreign particles, may be 5-7% of the total hardness is pasing through it, so so that between 3 and 20 µS/cm can be measured electrically, depending on the quality of the membran, pressure or temperature.
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9408/3dgh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/3dgh.jpg/)

[Skip]

Next morning.........they seem ok!!!! Once again..your help was greatly appreciated!!!! Kris

great to hear Kris..

[magewynd]

Okay. This is an RO system? Do you still treat for Chlorine?

I am lucky that I don't have to use RO. I have been able to raise fry to adults, have them pair and spawn with eggs that hatch in my local water. I haven't tested for hardness in a few years since I was having no problem with eggs hatching. I have domestics. I think if I had wilds I would have to use RO.


Hi Steve, permeate is the pure water that goes through the osmosis membrane.
A very small rest of other foreign particles, may be 5-7% of the total hardness is pasing through it, so so that between 3 and 20 µS/cm can be measured electrically, depending on the quality of the membran, pressure or temperature.

[Ioan C.]

Do you still treat for Chlorine? No, i don't. I never did.