NEW DISCUS - DYING - HELP NEEDED FOR DIAGNOSIS

[Cosgrovt]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

I recently purchased 9 Super Eruptions found on this forum in the for sale section. I have them housed in a 75 gallon aquarium that has 2 hydro 5's that are well established with bio. The fish housed previous were disease free and no question that the tank was sterile. Learned from the previous owner that the discus were fed live black worms which makes me suspicious. When I met to pick the fish up, I notice a few were dark in color. I assumed that they were stressed and nothing to be concerned with. I trusted the seller. From the beginning (1st day) 3 of the 9 were dark in color, breathing rapidly, would not eat, clear and white feces, and noticed that their mouths were gaped open a bit (just didn’t look normal). After 1 week I lost 2 of the 9 discus. The 3rd (dark discus) is still alive but not eating. Its mouth is gaped open a bit (like the other 2), rapid breathing, and dark in color compared to the remaining 6 which are healthy and vibrant.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

-Dark in color
-Not eating
-Clamped Fins
-white zits noticed on previous (now dead) discus
-not interested in staying with the group
-one of the 9 has a cloudy eye when first introduced and examined on day one. This one eats and is active.




3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

- Fish Zole (Metro Tabs) - Maximum treatment per bottle of 10 days. Aged water dosed before water changes. Installed UV sterilizer after treatment. Coralife Turbo twist at 100 GPH.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

- 75 gallon aquarium. 2 years old.



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

- Water changes of 80-90 % per day. Every day.
- Bare bottom tank
- Yes, I age the water for 24 hours. My PH climbs from 7.6 to 8.2 after 24 hours.



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _86____

- ph _8.2____

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading _0___

- nitrate reading __0-5 ppm__

- well water __no__

- municipal water __yes - Lake Michigan__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

No. I have no live plants. Just the discus and 2 sponge filters in a 75 gallon aquarium.


LINK TO A VIDEO OF DYING DISCUS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflFXFoJErA

[Eddie]

Take that fish out, ASAP. Treat it in a hospital tank.

[Cosgrovb]

Treat with what Eddie?

[Eddie]

Treat with what Eddie?

Difficult to say but you started metro so finish the metro. Anytime a fish falls ill like that, it needs to be taken away from the group or you risk infecting the group. The others may already be infected and just have a built up immunity but if they become stressed, it will surface. Plus you don't want that fish dying in the tank and you finding it in the morning, with a crazy bacterial outbreak on ALL the fish.

[Cosgrovb]

He did a 10 day metro treatment. No cure. Now what?

[Eddie]

He did a 10 day metro treatment. No cure. Now what?

Tough call, a fish like that is generally a goner. Could be internal bacteria infection for which kanamycin would be helpful.

[Chicago Discus]

Call the breeder and take them back

[Chicago Discus]

It's going to be a domino effect sorry

[Skip]

so you had fish in that tank.. and just took them out and added new discus into it?

if so.. it may not be as sterile as you thought..
when you water change.. are you using the same hoses/tools for all your tanks.. ?

[Cosgrovt]

Thank you Eddie and Josie for your opinions. I was considering destroying the one(s) that don't eat and show signs of the disease and re-treating the remaining discus that are healthy. I'm treating all the fish so I Dont think that a quaranteen tank is needed. I may try to contact the guy who sold us the fish, but he is not a breeder and Dont think or believe he will honor his sale. I now believe he was new at discus, wasnt taking care of them properly and put them up for sale at a reasonable price, once he noticed that they were getting sick. Sad to say I had to learn this the hard way by trusting a seller.

I have run into hex before, but the fish responded to treatment and survived. These discus are showing no sign of recovery once they get weak and show signs of illness. If I can get them to eat, I believe I can save them. The ones that are eating will be food dosed. Daily water changes will continue.

[Skip]

dude.. that sucks.. :(

sorry to hear..

[Chicago Discus]

Thank you Eddie and Josie for your opinions. I was considering destroying the one(s) that don't eat and show signs of the disease and re-treating the remaining discus that are healthy. I'm treating all the fish so I Dont think that a quaranteen tank is needed. I may try to contact the guy who sold us the fish, but he is not a breeder and Dont think or believe he will honor his sale. I now believe he was new at discus, wasnt taking care of them properly and put them up for sale at a reasonable price, once he noticed that they were getting sick. Sad to say I had to learn this the hard way by trusting a seller.

I have run into hex before, but the fish responded to treatment and survived. These discus are showing no sign of recovery once they get weak and show signs of illness. If I can get them to eat, I believe I can save them. The ones that are eating will be food dosed. Daily water changes will continue.

Im so sorry to here about your discus, treating the whole tank is defiantly the right way to go IMO.... I really hope they start responding thats really terrible. If you need any help just call me I will do my best and If I don't know the answer I can get.................Josie

[Brokenrack]

Clear and white poop are not always hex. I would do as Eddie suggested and teat with Kana.

[Cosgrovt]

Thanks Josie. I appreciate the support.

Warlock - I do use the same hoses but I do the diseased tank last, when doing water changes each day. I wipe down the exterior of the hoses. Its all I can do. In a 75, we are talking about 50 -55 gallons per day. I have to use my 3/4 drain and 1" fill hoses. I use the paper towel method to clean the tank glass. The tank housed a AAA Red Dragon Flowerhorn for over a year and a half. He was perfect and absolutely healthy. I sold him to buy my order of Brilliant Turqs from Hans. I know the tank was sterile. It was just him in that 75. This problem was with the seller and passed on to me for sure.

I'm going to salvage the remaining healthy fish and move them to a 40 breeder (5 discus at 4.5 -5") and food dose them. I'm not taking any chances. There is still 5 that are really nice and healthy and their stool is black. Hopefully I can stop the outbreak.

Any Ideas to sterilize the 75 before I break it down and move the fish? Bleach?

(I may use the tank later for some smaller fry to raise and use for a grow out tank)

Thanks again,
Tom

[Skip]

just be careful..

using the same hoses between all tanks.. kind of breaks QT..

really hope you get this thing under control.

[Orange Crush]

Just because the flowerhorn was never sick does not mean the tank was sterile. ALL fish have some sort of bacteria/fungus/parasites even if they are healthy. They just happen to be resistant to it or have a strong enough immune system to keep it in check. However when another fish with a weaker immune system or a lack of resistance to that is exposed they do get sick.
In your case it is most likely the discus you bought were already sick but I just wanted you to know this for future reference. Also, sharing the hose between tanks regardless of which one gets the water change first does break the QT protocal. Doing the diseased tank last means that fish that are already sick are being exposed to whatever latent disease is in the healthy fish tanks and the next day the healthy fish are exposed to whatever it is the diseased fish have. Wiping the hose down on the outside at the end of the day wont sterilize it.

[Cosgrovt]

Thanks For your input OC.

[rostick555]

I'm sorry to hear about your losses and hope the rest do well for you. If you have PP I would use that to sterilize the 75 gallon at like 1/2 of a teaspoon running your filters and everything for 12-24 hrs but if not then chlorine should work.

[Kal-El]

I have treated my Discus with Metro with the same condition three days now and they still won't eat. I will have to also try kanamycin. Where can I get this med or what is a good brand to use?

[Cosgrovb]

Kalelhawj -- are you feeding blackworms?

[Chicago Discus]

I have treated my Discus with Metro with the same condition three days now and they still won't eat. I will have to also try kanamycin. Where can I get this med or what is a good brand to use?

how old are they?

[Kal-El]

how old are they?

Just got them 5-6".

[Chicago Discus]

Kalelhawj Im just a little worried that you have had the Discus for less than five days and you have been treating for three. I would call the person you got the Discus from and tell them that your having problems with your new Discus. I have never seen Discus get sick in less than a week unless your really doing something wrong in your tank or the seller sold you crap, I would also start a new thread and fill out http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete It really bothers me that both you just got your discus and are having such problems. I would definitely contact the breeder or seller and get their input and or refund.........Just my opinion guys..........Josie

[Kal-El]

Kalelhawj Im just a little worried that you have had the Discus for less than five days and you have been treating for three. I would call the person you got the Discus from and tell them that your having problems with your new Discus. I have never seen Discus get sick in less than a week unless your really doing something wrong in your tank or the seller sold you crap, I would also start a new thread and fill out http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete It really bothers me that both you just got your discus and are having such problems. I would definitely contact the breeder or seller and get their input and or refund.........Just my opinion guys..........Josie

Thanks for your reply I will contact the person back and see what he would do. I have juvenile on a 40 gallon that I have for two months no issue. The sick discus are in the big 65 gal tank.

[Chicago Discus]

Thanks for your reply I will contact the person back and see what he would do. I have juvenile on a 40 gallon that I have for two months no issue. The sick discus are in the big 65 gal tank.

If they won't help you with this then just come back and start a thread and we can try to help the Discus:) no worries you'll be fine........Josie

[Kal-El]

If they won't help you with this then just come back and start a thread and we can try to help the Discus:) no worries you'll be fine........Josie

Thanks Josie you have been very helpful. Next time I'm getting Discus from you ;) I will update once I hear from the breeder. When I first mention to him about the Discus's health he recommended me treat them with metro, but at this point I wonder why I'm even doing this since I just got the fish from him and they haven't eaten and pooping white feces from day one... I can't even get to enjoy them without worrying they might die. Hopefully we can work something out. He is a nice guy.

[Chicago Discus]

Thanks Josie you have been very helpful. Next time I'm getting Discus from you ;) I will update once I hear from the breeder. When I first mention to him about the Discus's health he recommended me treat them with metro, but at this point I wonder why I'm even doing this since I just got the fish from him and they haven't eaten and pooping white feces from day one... I can't even get to enjoy them without worrying they might die. Hopefully we can work something out. He is a nice guy.

Good to hear keep us updated ok..........Josie

[becna]

i would say they have internal parasites, i had the same problem where i bought discus and they got external parasites went dark etc i treated them with a liquid parasite medicine and it worked on some fish and not others then i tried tablet form that you crush up and put in the tank and it worked, so get tablet medication for internal parasites it seems to be stronger hope that might help