Do you use a UV Sterilizer in your Discus Aquarium

[Josef]

I would just like to see how many Discus keepers keep a UV sterlizer.

I think the results should be rather interesting.


Thanks

[Trier20]

Yup


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-Brandon

[Skip]

nope

[Josef]

Also please feel free to add your experience - like - since you've had the UV on have you lost any Discus and if you did to what ... disease, injury???

Or - if you do not have an UV - have you lost any Discus...and to what disease or injury??

This should also be interesting.

[Josef]

I'll start - I have not used a UV sterilizer on my last Discus tank and I have lost some Discus to disease and some to injury. The injuries I can account for - purely my mistake - due to aquascaping, heater placement and tank placement - things of that nature - totally my bad. As for those that had Disease - I can't call it.

[Teshi]

I was the gullible shopper and was sold one by my LFS when I purchased my first discus. I've taken it out and don't use it.

[Harriett]

Here are the realities of using a UV sterilizer as I know them:
1. If you use a UV, be aware that the success of actually using the gizmo depends on the water DWELL TIME. If you connect it to your filter system with a turn over of your tank water column 2-3 or more times an hour, it is a total waste of energy and work. In order for it to wark, the water has to run through the UV chamber at a slow enough rate that it is adequately zapped. That means you need to set up a separate pump that runs the water through VERY SLOWLY [I think it is something like 30 g an hour]. Do some homework on this one. [Most people don't do what is necessary to make a UV have any effect, they just FEEL safer....]
2. If you set up a UV system correctly, there is a resultant effect in the tank. With a significantly decreased presence of bacteria, etc., your fish do not have to exercise their immune systems in the normal way. If not used, over a period of time the immune system weakens; it doesn't stay vigilant and strong. Therefore, by using the UV, you potentially weaken your fish and IF AND WHEN a bug does get into the tank, your fish are more at risk.
3. All of this to me = skip the gizmo, do your water changes, and watch the balance of factors in your tank.
My own opinions,
best regards
Harriett

[gravjack]

I use them. I have a 24 watt unit plumbed in my planted display tank, synched on/off with my light timer. I use the slowest flow powerhead I could find to circulate the water, giving the longest UV exposure possible. Pre-filter on powerhead to keep gunk out of the UV chamber. Maybe it just makes me feel better, but the only time I had a problem with losing several fish to disease was when it blew up during a long power outage. I guess peace of mind is worth the cost of a bulb a year.

John

[David Rose]

I do in my 125G because it is my glass four season room with lots of light.

[Josef]

If we look into the Disease section in this Forum - we will find tons of cases of sick Discus. I'm thinking a UV will definitely be the way to go for me. I think because of all the inbreeding and line breeding that goes on to bring these amazing patterns and colors in the domestics, that one really has no choice but to run a UV sterilizer in the tank. I think the domestic linebred strains have already been compromised in terms of immune systems. And if I'm not mistaken - I believe the breeder enviroments (fish farms) are sterile, making things worst for the fish when they are released into hobbyist population. But I digress - I'm looking forward to the comments and results of this Poll. Non scientific - but it will be good enough for me.

[Skip]

sterile?!

have you seen where they get their water?.. straight from the rivers.. and then.. they dump the water from water change back in the rivers.. LOL..

*asia*

[Josef]

sterile?!

have you seen where they get their water?.. straight from the rivers.. and then.. they dump the water from water change back in the rivers.. LOL..

*asia*

Not a problem. We still have the inbreeding and linebreeding to contend with...plus - I'd like to know what hobbyist experiences are out there. With all the sick fish in the sick section - I'm hoping to get a lot of input here!

Strike that last comment! What I mean is...I'm hoping to get a lot of people that Poll NO to be honest about their fish loss and to what was the loss atributed.

[Skip]

Not a problem. We still have the inbreeding and linebreeding to contend with...plus - I'd like to know what hobbyist experiences are out there. With all the sick fish in the sick section - I'm hoping to get a lot of input here!

i like posted in another thread.. most of all discus problems in the section section are due to water quality.. and can be fixed/prevented with water changes..

what issues are you referring to with inbreeding/linebreeding?

[Eddie]

Never have, never will. Like the old 7-up commercial! LOL

[Josef]

While I appreciate the die hards I really would ask that you not take this thread in the wrong direction. If you don't use a UV and don't beleive in using them that's fine but you would do my thread a service by letting me - us know if you lost fish. What I would like to see accomplished here at least for me is some kind of general consensus either way. I would like to see how many people lost Discus to disease and if they did not use a UV. Also for those who use a UV - I would like to see if they lost any Discus to disease after using the UV. It's a pretty simple thread and poll and I would like to keep it that way so please try to hold your fingers from digressing. I am very familiar with the opinions of die hards but I am not looking for that here. Perhaps another thread could be started for that sort of thing.

Thank you in advance for your kind coorporation. And yes I know that water has to travel slowly through a UV. The manufacturer typically states the recomended flow rates. I've used them before with excellent results just not on Discus.

Again just reminding all - if you like doing things your way that's cool but I'm looking to collect some data here for myself. My convictions are already made up but I still would like to see the results of this Poll. Also - Warlock - Eddie - Harriet and other SD veterans if you would be so kind to letting me know about your losses and why. Unless you never had a loss. I don't want to come off snotty but I am really in pursuit of truth and not opinions.

Respectfully


Josef

[yim11]

If we look into the Disease section in this Forum - we will find tons of cases of sick Discus. I'm thinking a UV will definitely be the way to go for me. I think because of all the inbreeding and line breeding that goes on to bring these amazing patterns and colors in the domestics, that one really has no choice but to run a UV sterilizer in the tank. I think the domestic linebred strains have already been compromised in terms of immune systems.

What do you base this info on? Links please.


And if I'm not mistaken - I believe the breeder enviroments (fish farms) are sterile, making things worst for the fish when they are released into hobbyist population. But I digress - I'm looking forward to the comments and results of this Poll. Non scientific - but it will be good enough for me.

There are ample books, pictures, videos, and testimonials from Asian farms/breeders that directly contradict that statement. Where is your info from? It appears you are greatly mistaken.

[Bud Smith]

Never have, never will. Like the old 7-up commercial! LOL

+1

[Josef]

yim11 - I thought this was settled when I told Warlock "no problem" meaning that I accept that Farms are not sterile. Also in terms of the disease section - what I mean is the sum total of hobbyist that have created threads about their sick fish. I can only imagine how far back that section goes.

I really wish at this point readers and posters could just stick to what the Poll is asking for - going forward, please ignore my statements regarding fish farms and line breeding. How about posters just report if they've had sick fish and losses and did not use a UV. And if posters used a UV did they experience sick fish and losses after using the UV.

I'm starting to feel like I'm pulling teeth. A lot of comments to refute but no true substance in terms of what I'm asking for - come on this is a great site, how about providing some of the info I'm asking for...

I can't enphasize this enough...please don't derail my thread. I don't want to argue points. I would just like to collect the unscientific data. If you don't want to admit your losses that's cool I don't have a gun to anyone's head. I just think that being truthful is the right thing to do.

[rbarn]

To get any kind of real pathogen killing power UV dosage has to be EXTREME. Other than that it is nothing but a green water treatment.

[Skip]

Also - Warlock - Eddie - Harriet and other SD veterans if you would be so kind to letting me know about your losses and why. Unless you never had a loss. I don't want to come off snotty but I am really in pursuit of truth and not opinions.

Respectfully


Josef

i have NO IDEA.. how and why i had loses.. if that knew why.. then i would not lose any.. BUT!!!

what was in common for all for all of them.. they were all under 3"... juvies.. i was growing out.. i have not lost one in over a year..

[DerekFF]

Ive lost juvies to improper qt and parasites with secondary bacterial infections. other than that just 2 adults to gastric blockages

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[nc0gnet0]

Here are the realities of using a UV sterilizer as I know them:
1. If you use a UV, be aware that the success of actually using the gizmo depends on the water DWELL TIME. If you connect it to your filter system with a turn over of your tank water column 2-3 or more times an hour, it is a total waste of energy and work. In order for it to wark, the water has to run through the UV chamber at a slow enough rate that it is adequately zapped. That means you need to set up a separate pump that runs the water through VERY SLOWLY [I think it is something like 30 g an hour]. Do some homework on this one. [Most people don't do what is necessary to make a UV have any effect, they just FEEL safer....]
2. If you set up a UV system correctly, there is a resultant effect in the tank. With a significantly decreased presence of bacteria, etc., your fish do not have to exercise their immune systems in the normal way. If not used, over a period of time the immune system weakens; it doesn't stay vigilant and strong. Therefore, by using the UV, you potentially weaken your fish and IF AND WHEN a bug does get into the tank, your fish are more at risk.
3. All of this to me = skip the gizmo, do your water changes, and watch the balance of factors in your tank.
My own opinions,
best regards
Harriett

1) Only half correct. Effectiveness is a product of dwell time and UV strength. The more powerfull the UV, the less dwell time needed to eliminate pathogens. It is true most users don't understand this and have way to much flow through thier UV rendering it useless. Most commercial units are setup to eliminate algae and nothing esle.
2) This is just completly wrong. Using this analogy, fish that live in water in tanks that have thier water changed only once a week are more healthy that those that get water changes daily.
3) .........

UV is just another tool to maintian water quality. Is it neccessary? No. Does it help? Yes, it can if setup correctly. Does it have its limitations? Absolutely! It is not a substitute for a good water change routine. In order for it to work, the pathogens have to pass through the unit. It will do nothing for the bacteria that is living in the protein buildup on the tank bottom and sides, or any parasites that are already present in your fish.

[DerekFF]

This thread and the other UV thread just need to be merged lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[dpete9]

I used UV when i had a planted tank primarily to control algae.
Of course it only controls anything that is freely flowing through the water column. Like nc0gnet0 says it does nothing for what is present on the fish, glass, filter material etc.
That being said when I used it I think it helped a lot with control of algae, i don't know about diseases.

Not bragging, only stating the facts, I never had a discus die with or without UV.. except very small juvies, but that's unavoidable.

[farebox]

Just for your info, I purchased the CL turbo-twist, 9W UV a year ago, but never used it until reading this thread the other day. Since started keeping discus fish last year, I say I have lost over eight from various reasons to me unknown(newbie) without using UV. As of 04/20/12 installed this UV unit to my 125GA discus tank, plumbed with maxi-jet 400 water pump for the proper flow rate for the unit to work most effectively per instructions. The unit will be running 24/7(turned off for WC's). So will have to wait and see the effect it will have in the future as far as fish diseases goes in this tank.....
farebox

[Skip]

UV should not ever, ever, ever.. replace Water changes.. so if a newbie is reading this.. don't think that it is..

[dpete9]

UV should not ever, ever, ever.. replace Water changes.. so if a newbie is reading this.. don't think that it is..

+1

[farebox]

I mean turn off during water changes. I am firm believer on water changes,that's the most important thing learned here on the forum!!!

[DerekFF]

So will have to wait and see the effect it will have in the future as far as fish diseases goes in this tank.....
farebox

Doesnt make infected fish uninfected. Proper use in a QT tank with other recommended QT protocol should make a UV in a show tank for algae control only



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[Eddie]

1) Only half correct. Effectiveness is a product of dwell time and UV strength. The more powerfull the UV, the less dwell time needed to eliminate pathogens. It is true most users don't understand this and have way to much flow through thier UV rendering it useless. Most commercial units are setup to eliminate algae and nothing esle.
2) This is just completly wrong. Using this analogy, fish that live in water in tanks that have thier water changed only once a week are more healthy that those that get water changes daily.
3) .........

UV is just another tool to maintian water quality. Is it neccessary? No. Does it help? Yes, it can if setup correctly. Does it have its limitations? Absolutely! It is not a substitute for a good water change routine. In order for it to work, the pathogens have to pass through the unit. It will do nothing for the bacteria that is living in the protein buildup on the tank bottom and sides, or any parasites that are already present in your fish.

What he said. ;)

[Josef]

I am pleased with the latest threads - thank you all so much for keeping the content in the spirit of my likeness :)

I can't recall where in this Poll or in my other thread I said anything about replacing water changes with a UV. I don't get it LOL How did someone come to that assumption - that was the furthest thing from my mind. Don't worry about saving the newbies because one thing I know is that newbies do what newbies do that's how they learn - they don't need saviours - they learn on their own. I too was a newbie years ago - I learned and I still keep and love fish. And yes my point exactly - UVs come in different strengths. The stronger the UV - the more it Zaps. And if I could Zap out microbes from the water column that will make fish sick - then the UV is well worth it inspite of what may be lying around the subtrate or glass bottom.

I am going to make a comment in the other thread that will ignite some fire but I'm willing to live with it. Please respond to it over there and not here as I would like to keep this thread more data driven than anything else.

[Skip]

I said it..............

a newbie can take these post and for some reason.. try to put two and two together.. and decide.. "oh, UV will keep my fish from getting sick, so why do water changes".........

that is not correct

you need to "report" your thread to the mods.. so the threads can be merged..

[David Rose]

I do in my 125G because it is my glass four season room with lots of light.

Just to clarify Josef, I use mine for algae control given that my 125G is in a very sunny room where I like to spend a lot of time. I don't count on this model for anything else.

[Josef]

Ya David I got that - but I'm sure your fish are benefiting from it in other ways haha David

I guess they should be merged. Not sure how we do that - but just to be clear for a Mod on this thread - Please feel free to merge the content in the "Water Works" section created by yours truly with the UV Sterilizer Title. But please keep this Poll thread open - I don't care as much about the other thread as I do this one. Thanks

[-gb-]

I installed UV to see if it would help add an extra layer of protection. I have a flow rate of 180 gph with a 35W bulb. (I still do 75% water changes 3X a week)

What I've seen: 1) Less algae.
2) Clearer (not cleaner) water surface (ie. not cloudy).
3) My fish were occasionally rubbing agents my potted plants. This behaviour has stopped.

I have not lost a fish in 6 years. Been running UV for about 3 months. Only problem I've had is a small outbreak of Ich due to improper quarantining a BN pleco. This was before I installed the UV. Having UV may have helped the spread to Ich seeing as it is a free flatting organism.

[Josef]

I installed UV to see if it would help add an extra layer of protection. I have a flow rate of 180 gph with a 35W bulb. (I still do 75% water changes 3X a week)

What I've seen: 1) Less algae.
2) Clearer (not cleaner) water surface (ie. not cloudy).
3) My fish were occasionally rubbing agents my potted plants. This behaviour has stopped.

I have not lost a fish in 6 years. Been running UV for about 3 months. Only problem I've had is a small outbreak of Ich due to improper quarantining a BN pleco. This was before I installed the UV. Having UV may have helped the spread to Ich seeing as it is a free flatting organism.

It will definitely fry the Ich I know this from experience.

When I first started with a Marine tank I had Ich outbreaks all the time! A guy told me to install a UV. I did - a Turbo Twist - No Ich after that!!

Oh, I don't sell Turbo Twist and I don't want to plug them but that is the brand I bought. Doesn't mean I wont buy another brand for my next tank :)

[-gb-]

Turbo Twist is what I have installed. good price & quality - IMO

[Josef]

Turbo Twist is what I have installed. good price & quality - IMO

Careful someone might think we are Turbo Twist reps! LOL Don't I wish!

Edit: I found this really nice read on UV!

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

[nc0gnet0]

Just for your info, I purchased the CL turbo-twist, 9W UV a year ago, but never used it until reading this thread the other day. Since started keeping discus fish last year, I say I have lost over eight from various reasons to me unknown(newbie) without using UV. As of 04/20/12 installed this UV unit to my 125GA discus tank, plumbed with maxi-jet 400 water pump for the proper flow rate for the unit to work most effectively per instructions. The unit will be running 24/7(turned off for WC's). So will have to wait and see the effect it will have in the future as far as fish diseases goes in this tank.....
farebox

This is where UV gets a bad rap, a 9w unit on a 125 gallon tank is like peeing on a forest fire...won't do a dam thing. For level two and three protection in a 50 gallon tank, it takes a flow rate of 200 GPH coupled to a 36 watt UV unit.

[David Rose]

This is where UV gets a bad rap, a 9w unit on a 125 gallon tank is like peeing on a forest fire...won't do a dam thing. For level two and three protection in a 50 gallon tank, it takes a flow rate of 200 GPH coupled to a 36 watt UV unit.

Thanks for the info Rick.

[nc0gnet0]

Than
ks for the info Rick.

Just to clarify David, it will do just fine with the algae, just nothing else.

[Josef]

Please vote

[Disgirl]

I voted. But I only use a 20 watt UV on my pond to kill green algae and it works great for that. I use wc's on my discus tank, and it works just great. Need to buy a new UV bulb yearly and now they cost me $60.
Barb

[vicdiscus]

I never had to use UV in my aquarium in whole my life., I think it is waste of money! It's very important is basic must have good water quality, therefore I do water change a lot a lot, my discus are happy and very successful spawn. I do enjoy working with my discus, clean all sides, wash sponge filter, fill up new water from aging tanks are always working GREAT without any problems and no issues.

[DiscusDrew]

I am no expert by any means but Ive raised discus a few years now with great success. I do not see the need to use a UV sterilizer as any problems Ive had most likely would not have been fixed by its presence in the tank, thus I do not use a UV sterilizer. I have had two loses of about 46 total discus. They just happened to be the first two discus I purchased when I first got into discus. My mistakes?.... not focusing on the basics and overthinking things that seem so practical and important. I did not have the knowledge to know that discus required a near perfect environment in terms of water conditions and I was too ready with medications instead of good old fashioned labor and patience. I feel this to be a very common problem even amongst established aquarists. The fish both one at a time became stressed, bacterially infected, and eventually died when simply antibiotics were thrown at them. Ever since I learned my lesson and the biggest of which is that medications should be used mostly as a measure of last resort or light routine preventative maintenance. They have their time and their place in all aquariums, however my point is that relying on very strong and secure nitrogen cycle, along with a clockwork 50% daily water change, a good balanced diet (parasite free), and basic routine tank and filter maintenance anybody can have happy and healthy discus environment. Ive always stuck to the basics after my experiences and so far it has never done me wrong. I will also note that salt (which occurs naturally) along with heat, can have just as effective yet not as invasive of an impact as medications can. We all so easily get wrapped up in elaborate assemblys in an attempt to establish perfect conditions for the fish, all of which is A-OK as long as you always remember the basis for that animals survival and what in nature would cause a desired effect on that fish? ..... The amazon flows an AWFUL lot of water ;)

[Benm3]

I use it on all my tanks. But I use high end UV units ,no turbo twists or in tank for me. I use both Aqua UV and Emperor Aquatic units. Both are commercial grade and used by universities and large aquariums.

[DiscusDrew]

I forgot to mention the importance of which fish you choose to buy!!! Picking your fish is one of your most important constants!!

[Josef]

It's not just the Amazon that flows a lot of water, in fact, I think most large rivers throughout the world flow a lot of water :) Lots of fish in those other rivers that people keep - nuff said on that.

But I think this statement is made to justify the massive amounts of water changes some Discus keepers employ. It's not the first time or the last time that we will hear about how the Amazon flows a lot of water. It's an uncientific comparison. But I get your drift. Actually, what is really happening when the hobbyist makes daily water changes 50% if not even more that that - is that you are maintaining a sterile environment. As long as your source water is not carrying harmful pathogens and you introduce no new fish - then yes, I agree that you will likely have a good outcome with the Discus' health.

But not every Discus keeper keeps such a regiment do they? This should convince the newbie that those awesome patterns and colors found in domestic Discus come at a high price. Not only are the fish expensive but if you have to pay for water - you will be paying a lot of money for H2O.

If a UV can contribute to keeping the aquarium as sterile as posible - then why not use it? It amazes me continually how people say they wont waste money on a certain piece of equipment but they will spend thousands on lifestock. If heard that said in a few other places not just here and not just Discus keepers. Sorry - but it doesn't add up.

Take reefers for example - they will spend thousands on corals, liverock and exotic fish - and their equipement budget willl be just as costly if not even more - why, because they know they will need the best equipement to provide an adequate and healthy enviroment for their fish.

Don't get me wrong - if you can keep your fish healthy with just water changes that's great - but to shoot down a UV mechanism because you think you are saving money... it's faulty logic IMO. And yes, when it comes to these halfway hardy fish I agree - you better know who, where, and what fish you are picking out - absolutely.

[DiscusDrew]

I dont think I brought up cost.... I simply emphasized the importance of focusing on the basics of good fish keeping. The amazon with its continual rainfall is an easy analogy for anyone to understand, not a scientific analysis of a water change. You seem to have your mind already made up, I listed the experiences with or without as YOU said you were looking for. Im sorry but you have to take it all in if your going to ask the question, and my response was very much on target to your post, so its not like i diverted.

To the point of money in relation to the hobby, good equipment purchase is important, maybe even more important than livestock purchase, but my point was that a lot of people run into this hobby with everything they have in terms of financial prowese but lack the basic fundamentals and it all turns out for not. The overall point if your looking at buying a UV system, it does not take the place of your normal maintenance regimen.... however can it really hurt as long as you keep up with mainenance? I would think not.... In my opinion though, it is not necessarily a priority.

[Josef]

I dont think I brought up cost.... I simply emphasized the importance of focusing on the basics of good fish keeping. The amazon with its continual rainfall is an easy analogy for anyone to understand, not a scientific analysis of a water change. You seem to have your mind already made up, I listed the experiences with or without as YOU said you were looking for. Im sorry but you have to take it all in if your going to ask the question, and my response was very much on target to your post, so its not like i diverted.

To the point of money in relation to the hobby, good equipment purchase is important, maybe even more important than livestock purchase, but my point was that a lot of people run into this hobby with everything they have in terms of financial prowese but lack the basic fundamentals and it all turns out for not. The overall point if your looking at buying a UV system, it does not take the place of your normal maintenance regimen.... however can it really hurt as long as you keep up with mainenance? I would think not.... In my opinion though, it is not necessarily a priority.

My mind was made up before I created this Poll. I believe UVs are useful and effective. I've used them in the past. I created the Poll for a differernt reason. And I'll say it again - looks like I have to repeat myself somehow - I dont believe a UV replaces water changes. Don't know if I can stress that enough.

I think a UV would be very useful with domesitc strains.

[Josef]

The Poll was interesting. Thanks to all participants.

Since I had a change of heart on purchasing a new group of Discus I will not be needing a UV.

I was intrigued by the sale post of a guy that said he raised six Stendker's and he treated for Hex and Flukes monthly.

In my head - I'm like - if that's what people feel they need to do - dang. Josef shakes his head!

[REC]

Sorry to bring this thread out from the dead but I just wanted to chime in. I see many of you stating a Uv sterilizer is not necessary to control Algae if you are doing daily water changes. This is only for very low light aquariums or those aquariums that aren't by any open large windows. My 110g in my office has a large open window on both sides of it. The back is covered so no light is brought in. In 2 days with my Uv disabled due to me getting rid of canister filters(Turbo Twist) and also getting rid of my pleco the interior of my tank is full of Algae. Granted this is with 80% daily water changes. I just ordered a 24w Green Killing Machine interior Uv because this is ridiculous. I'd also like to point out the water clarity it brings. I can already see the clarity of the water deteriorating in just 2 days. Uv's have there place in certain environments. My setup is clearly one of them.

[William Palumbo]

I had never used them in the past. But since moving, my tanks are in my 4 seasons room, and it gets a TON of light. So because of that I do use UV now. Also as stated water is CLEAR. My Heckels seem to love it. Just picked up my second one today, for my other 55g...Bill

[Baygon]

Have anyone tried algae killer conditioner? I used to use Fritz Algae Clean Out to keep algae away which somehow it works but my fishes dont seem like it.

Btw that Josef guy got banned? lol

[dillpickle]

Have anyone tried algae killer conditioner? I used to use Fritz Algae Clean Out to keep algae away which somehow it works but my fishes dont seem like it.

Btw that Josef guy got banned? lol

None of my tanks use UV. My 90 gets indirect sunlight and there is a ton of algae that grows in it. But there are also a ton of algae eating fish. Lol why did that Josef get banned? What did he do?

[Davidzil]

Are we still going with this pole?

[Akili]

Are we still going with this pole?The poll is closed

[ksuyen]

I bought and returned Eheim ReeflexUV, which was planned to be part of my canister filter outlet equipment alongside with the external heater. Needless to say, with the amount of water changes we do for Discus I hardly need UV Steriliser. At first I was tempted with the idea of pathogenesis free water, however this is easily becoming redundant when you do plenty of water changes. Every new water (treated) replacing the current water will be automatically healthy.